RobbRiddicksTDLeap Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 47 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: Winston is a UFA next year. They tank with Taysom Hill. Oh, perfect! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 28 minutes ago, jlgarsh said: I thought if they retired the cap hit goes away? Instead of getting cut That's true with typical contracts and usually that is from "Signing Bonus" money returned for years not played. Brees contract is a mess. Some of the Dead Money is due to previous contract restructures. As others have already said, it's not clear how that's handled. I think it's owed Brees. The other question is these 2 phony years in his contract pushing his signing bonus out. I like the $ stuff and I don't know about that either. Everyone will get an education as to what happens in the next few months. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaadThingsMan Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 13 hours ago, mannc said: Well, I guess the Saints are out of the Deshaun Watson sweepstakes then... Or are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreboding Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 13 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said: its amazing how highly leveraged the Saints have been for years. I remember when they signed Jairus Byrd way back when, and they were way over the cap even then and folks were scratching their heads. They always seem to find a way to restructure everyone. It is a little known secret that in 2027, the Saints intend to field a team entirely composed of Canadian football players. After that season, they will be back to $0 cap hit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: What's the hit if they outright cut Thomas? He's an expensive luxury at this point and he didn't really help them get deep into the playoffs this year. It actually puts them in an even bigger financial hole if they cut him. They can restructure his deal to save cap as I alluded to in my post but outright cutting him would put them over $100 million in the hole I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 59 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: That's true with typical contracts and usually that is from "Signing Bonus" money returned for years not played. Brees contract is a mess. Some of the Dead Money is due to previous contract restructures. As others have already said, it's not clear how that's handled. I think it's owed Brees. The other question is these 2 phony years in his contract pushing his signing bonus out. I like the $ stuff and I don't know about that either. Everyone will get an education as to what happens in the next few months. The bonus money that remains on the cap has already been paid to him. It can't go away the team has to account for it somewhere. It can either eat it all in 2021 or it can spread it across 2021 and 2022. But Drew has had that money in his bank account since the day he signed the deal. 11 minutes ago, DCOrange said: It actually puts them in an even bigger financial hole if they cut him. They can restructure his deal to save cap as I alluded to in my post but outright cutting him would put them over $100 million in the hole I believe. Yea they can't cut him and they can't trade him. They have to restructure his deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said: I wonder if they’ll consider allowing each team to terminate one contract with no penalties if the cap goes down significantly. They did this in the NBA years ago. Although it was part of a new CBA and their contracts anew fully guaranteed. I don't think the NFL or NFLPA is going to let the cap go down 20+ million. I think they will do what the NBA did and keep the cap flat but have the players put a portion of their salaries in escrow and have that portion of their salary with held or distributed based on the yearly revenues along with a possible league wide bonus if revenues exceed expectations wildly. I just don't see the players wanting it nor do I see owners and GMs wanting such a crunch. 4 hours ago, DCOrange said: It's going to be an ugly offseason and probably ugly few years for them, but a lot can be fixed (at least in the short-term) with restructures and some obvious cut/trade candidates. So right now, they appear to be about $95 million over the cap (not to mention they need to add players in order to field a full roster) Brees retires: $13.5 mil Cam Jordan restructure: $9.6 mil Michael Thomas restructure: $8.9 mil Terron Armstead restructure: $6.8 mil Taysom Hill trade: $12.1 mil Janoris Jenkins June Cut: $10 mil Kwon Alexander cut: $13.4 mil Andrus Peat restructure: $6 mil Ryan Ramczyk extension: $8.1 mil Marshon Lattimore extension: $7.4 mil (or potentially trade for over $10 mil) Nick Easton cut: $6 mil Malcom Brown cut: $5 mil Emmanuel Sanders June Trade: $8 mil These moves get New Orleans to roughly $5 mil in cap space while still needing to add 15 players to the team. They aren't trading Taysom Hill who is their only QB on the roster assuming Brees retires. I also think the cap isn't going to be set at 175 million. I likely think they are going to set the cap at 195-205 million which would give the Saints (assuming they make all those moves minus trading Taysom Hill) about 22 million in space which should allow them to add their rookie pool and fill the remaining roster slots with cheaper players. I also think they might work with Michael Thomas's contract to free up a little more space. The Saints will be able to make these moves and take a step back as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlgarsh Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said: That's true with typical contracts and usually that is from "Signing Bonus" money returned for years not played. Brees contract is a mess. Some of the Dead Money is due to previous contract restructures. As others have already said, it's not clear how that's handled. I think it's owed Brees. The other question is these 2 phony years in his contract pushing his signing bonus out. I like the $ stuff and I don't know about that either. Everyone will get an education as to what happens in the next few months. Wild. I just heard on NFL radio that the cap is decreasing $18 million next year. I wonder if that’s even factored in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said: That's true with typical contracts and usually that is from "Signing Bonus" money returned for years not played. Brees contract is a mess. Some of the Dead Money is due to previous contract restructures. As others have already said, it's not clear how that's handled. I think it's owed Brees. The other question is these 2 phony years in his contract pushing his signing bonus out. I like the $ stuff and I don't know about that either. Everyone will get an education as to what happens in the next few months. They're called void years. So essentially you are giving someone a 2 year contract - but spreading the bonus over 4 years. They can sign with you again, but that bonus money was paid, and would hit the cap. Depending on when they announce, they can split the hit over 2 seasons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 minute ago, jlgarsh said: Wild. I just heard on NFL radio that the cap is decreasing $18 million next year. I wonder if that’s even factored in? That would be around 180M. Spotrac had been using the agreed upon floor of like 175M. It's not a good time to be a free agent though. Top end guys will still get theirs, but the middle tier and below are about to get lowballed - i also see middle level talent signing extensions to stay where they are. Example: John brown - Cap hit 9.5m, dead cap 1.6. He won't get 8M on the open market. So instead, you drop his salary to like 1M for 2021, and partially guarantee a year in 2022 with a signing bonus and roster bonus. Gets his cap hit down to something like 3M, and he doesn't lose a game of musical chairs and end up signing a 1 year deal for like 1M which can tank his value. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 16 minutes ago, dneveu said: They're called void years. So essentially you are giving someone a 2 year contract - but spreading the bonus over 4 years. They can sign with you again, but that bonus money was paid, and would hit the cap. Depending on when they announce, they can split the hit over 2 seasons. Yes Void years. I just used the term some "capologists" use, phony. I was pretty sure it's money owed to the player but wasn't 100% sure. I'll take your word that it is. @jlgarshjust said $18M decrease ($180M) and I just looked up some articles on it. That's another projection. I was figuring it would end up around $185M-$190M when all the negotiations are done. After all is said and done you got to admit the Saints are in uncharted waters regarding the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: Yes Void years. I just used the term some "capologists" use, phony. I was pretty sure it's money owed to the player but wasn't 100% sure. I'll take your word that it is. @jlgarshjust said $18M decrease ($180M) and I just looked up some articles on it. That's another projection. I was figuring it would end up around $185M-$190M when all the negotiations are done. After all is said and done you got to admit the Saints are in uncharted waters regarding the cap. It's not necessarily "owed"... they already paid it out. So if you look here (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/drew-brees-4542/) - everything to the right of base salary he already has. None of it is a roster bonus, or workout bonus - it was fully guaranteed. They've been doing restructures for years essentially betting on an increasing cap. The highest paid WR for 5 years is like the 15th highest paid 5 years later etc. The eagles are probably just as screwed, and they don't have anything of value to trade like the saints. The saints could move any of the following players (who have value and would net solid picks/players in return) and gain cap savings: Lattimore, Armstead, Sanders, and Ramczyk. They can also extend and lower cap hits for some players, and designate some post-june cuts to split cap hits. In any case, they'll look a lot different next year - and they are going to need a lot of draft picks in 2021/2022 to contribute. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, dneveu said: It's not necessarily "owed"... they already paid it out. So if you look here (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/drew-brees-4542/) - everything to the right of base salary he already has. None of it is a roster bonus, or workout bonus - it was fully guaranteed. They've been doing restructures for years essentially betting on an increasing cap. The highest paid WR for 5 years is like the 15th highest paid 5 years later etc. The eagles are probably just as screwed, and they don't have anything of value to trade like the saints. The saints could move any of the following players (who have value and would net solid picks/players in return) and gain cap savings: Lattimore, Armstead, Sanders, and Ramczyk. They can also extend and lower cap hits for some players, and designate some post-june cuts to split cap hits. In any case, they'll look a lot different next year - and they are going to need a lot of draft picks in 2021/2022 to contribute. Agree especially the part about them doing a lot of restructuring. I used the wrong term "owed" as you pointed out. I was using that term is the sense of the Saints "reclaiming" any of the paid bonus to Brees now that he is retiring. I'm sure both of us are interested in how the Saints and Eagles move through this in the next 2 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Billieve Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Incredible. Honestly I was hoping that they work it out so the cap would be higher next year, but this has changed my mind. I felt really bad for players before, but looking at this, players willing to restructure are going to have a lot of power over some organizations. Absolutely nuts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co_springs_billsfan Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 5 hours ago, ColoradoBills said: Agree especially the part about them doing a lot of restructuring. I used the wrong term "owed" as you pointed out. I was using that term is the sense of the Saints "reclaiming" any of the paid bonus to Brees now that he is retiring. I'm sure both of us are interested in how the Saints and Eagles move through this in the next 2 months. They in a sense "owe" it against the cap. It's like a debt they have been pushing down the road that has to hit the cap someday. I was looking at spotrac and man is that a mess. The Saints have a lot of expensive guys that cost more dead cap if cut than if they keep them. They're gonna need to do A LOT of cuts/trades/restructures. Teams with lots of cap space and draft capital should definitely make some calls... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Since I think Brees will still work for the Saints for the foreseeable future is there anything stopping him from returning his entire signing bonus and getting paid back through a large front office contract? I know way back when the Lions got signing bonus money returned from Barry Sanders. I know that was a different CBA but is anyone know if that could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Got an interesting message this morning from a guy I know who is a big draft follower and has heard a few wild rumours that have come to pass before...... don't rule out Darnold ending up on the Saints. He has heard that they don't see Hill as the heir apparent and they would be attracted to the cheap nature of Darnold's rookie deal. Apparently he was the only QB Payton liked in that draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Maybe they could reset all dead cap space to 0 for all teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 2 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: Maybe they could reset all dead cap space to 0 for all teams. Not fair for teams who are under cap. The Saints knew this day was coming when they went all in to win before Brees retired. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 On 1/19/2021 at 10:38 AM, ColoradoBills said: Winston is a UFA next year. They tank with Taysom Hill. Given Hill is 3-1 as a starter, a tank might not be that easy to pull off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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