Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 9 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said: Probably not since the Bills don’t have any money either This is not true. Misleading at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: And Irsay made Ralph look like a spend thrift, well at least the old man did. WRT to cap saving I see Brees is listed a cap hit of $36 mil and dead cap of $22.6. For the cap saving do you basically subtract the dead from the hit? Yes. You can also for all intents and purposes add the replacement to the dead cap hit since you aren't really saving it if you spent it on another player. 45 minutes ago, Captain Caveman said: No, otherwise teams would do this all the time. The cap hit comes from the annual salary plus signing bonus which is spread over the length of the contract. A lot of these bonuses are huge and spread over long periods (to minimize the impact over any single year) but then when the contract is terminated early the remainder gets added to the cap all in a year or two . Right, you already gave him the bonus. If you retired with 3 years of bonus payments they would all get mashed into 1 cap hit. Brees also has 2 void years of bonus payments. He was never even intended to be on the team, they fully expected to eat cap space to not have him - with the intention of being more competitive on the rest of the roster. Edited January 19, 2021 by dneveu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 I wonder if they’ll consider allowing each team to terminate one contract with no penalties if the cap goes down significantly. They did this in the NBA years ago. Although it was part of a new CBA and their contracts anew fully guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 This was NO final run at the SB. They can now start the re build. No job is safe in NO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rk_Bills86 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 The Cap isn't set in stone yet - so lets pump the brakes a bit. Additionally - while the NFL is a hard cap - with some monetary fines for going over - some teams can and will go over the cap. The WFT have done so multiple times in the past and the owner just ate the fines. If I remember correctly there is some additional fine print regarding how the cap fines and penalties are given out based on the length of contracts and their weight distribution, and etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 It's going to be an ugly offseason and probably ugly few years for them, but a lot can be fixed (at least in the short-term) with restructures and some obvious cut/trade candidates. So right now, they appear to be about $95 million over the cap (not to mention they need to add players in order to field a full roster) Brees retires: $13.5 mil Cam Jordan restructure: $9.6 mil Michael Thomas restructure: $8.9 mil Terron Armstead restructure: $6.8 mil Taysom Hill trade: $12.1 mil Janoris Jenkins June Cut: $10 mil Kwon Alexander cut: $13.4 mil Andrus Peat restructure: $6 mil Ryan Ramczyk extension: $8.1 mil Marshon Lattimore extension: $7.4 mil (or potentially trade for over $10 mil) Nick Easton cut: $6 mil Malcom Brown cut: $5 mil Emmanuel Sanders June Trade: $8 mil These moves get New Orleans to roughly $5 mil in cap space while still needing to add 15 players to the team. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 2 hours ago, jwhit34 said: This is an excellent synopsis. Here are my calculations, presuming that the league bumps the cap up to around $200 million, leaving them $80 million over: Brees retiring saves about $13.5 million Releasing Kwon Alexander saves $13.4 million Releasing Sanders saves $6.5 million Taysom Hill is prime candidate for restructure, release would save $5 million, restructure potentially more, call it $7 million The above 4 saves $40.5 million, halfway there That's where it gets tough: Oline possibilities: Ramczyk ($11m), Armstead ($5.6m), Nick Easton ($6m) Janoris Jenkins cut would save $7m, restructure less, M. Brown cut would save $5m Probably can find 4-5 more that will save an average of $2m each If you notice there are a lot of players who if released their dead cap is close to equal or even more than the cap hit if on the roster. The years of restructure and going for it while they have had Brees is really coming back to bite them now. While they have been able to restructure their way out of it in the past I think they will have to make far tougher decisions this offseason and they could be pretty bad in 2021. Problem is they have 46 under contract so if they release 8-10 from above now they have 36-38 players so at least 15 roster spots to fill. They need money for their draft picks and to fill the rest of the roster spots, so they would probably need at least $20 million. They will have to get very creative. People are discounting the highlighted. You need some cap space to fill the roster with minimum salary players and sign draft picks. It's not just subtraction they will have to add back in as well. They are finally in a real jam. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 What's the hit if they outright cut Thomas? He's an expensive luxury at this point and he didn't really help them get deep into the playoffs this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Brees officially retiring post June 1st will save them 25 million. I think what you'll see is a lot of teams adding years to current players contracts and moving a lot of the money to the later years where the cap is higher. I fully expect the Bills to reup Diggs, Hughes, and Hyde this offseason. Resigning Feliciano, Williams, and Milano but then paying less of their contracts in the 1st year. Williams should be somewhere around 4/40million, but expect him to only get 5 the first year with a higher roster bonus. The Saints have some work to do, but they will get there, teams always do. Look at KC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 3 hours ago, jwhit34 said: This is an excellent synopsis. Here are my calculations, presuming that the league bumps the cap up to around $200 million, leaving them $80 million over: Brees retiring saves about $13.5 million Releasing Kwon Alexander saves $13.4 million Releasing Sanders saves $6.5 million Taysom Hill is prime candidate for restructure, release would save $5 million, restructure potentially more, call it $7 million The above 4 saves $40.5 million, halfway there That's where it gets tough: Oline possibilities: Ramczyk ($11m), Armstead ($5.6m), Nick Easton ($6m) Janoris Jenkins cut would save $7m, restructure less, M. Brown cut would save $5m Probably can find 4-5 more that will save an average of $2m each If you notice there are a lot of players who if released their dead cap is close to equal or even more than the cap hit if on the roster. The years of restructure and going for it while they have had Brees is really coming back to bite them now. While they have been able to restructure their way out of it in the past I think they will have to make far tougher decisions this offseason and they could be pretty bad in 2021. Problem is they have 46 under contract so if they release 8-10 from above now they have 36-38 players so at least 15 roster spots to fill. They need money for their draft picks and to fill the rest of the roster spots, so they would probably need at least $20 million. They will have to get very creative. Sure they could do all that but that is at 46 roster players. The Saints also suffer with NOT signing any of their current FAs in this scenario. That means DT Sheldon Rankins and FS Marcus Williams (among others) are moving on to new teams! They will be hurting no matter what people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: Brees officially retiring post June 1st will save them 25 million. I think what you'll see is a lot of teams adding years to current players contracts and moving a lot of the money to the later years where the cap is higher. I fully expect the Bills to reup Diggs, Hughes, and Hyde this offseason. Resigning Feliciano, Williams, and Milano but then paying less of their contracts in the 1st year. Williams should be somewhere around 4/40million, but expect him to only get 5 the first year with a higher roster bonus. The Saints have some work to do, but they will get there, teams always do. Look at KC. But they will also need to carry his full contract until he does so they will need to meet the cap with his contract. So rip the bandage off otherwise you need to make a cut to cover a salary that will go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbRiddicksTDLeap Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Wont they just start a total rebuild? Eat all the dead cap space they can, surround Winston with garbage, and tank next season? That’s the new model for successful teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 That's what UDFAs are for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, RobbRiddicksTDLeap said: Wont they just start a total rebuild? Eat all the dead cap space they can, surround Winston with garbage, and tank next season? That’s the new model for successful teams. Winston is a UFA next year. They tank with Taysom Hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 11 hours ago, jlgarsh said: I’d imagine Brees retiring and saving $35million helps a bit. But from there, I cannot understand paying Taysom Hill over $16 million next year to be a gadget guy. Janoris Jenkins would save $7 million, and Emmanuel Sanders another 6.5. That leaves another $50 million to clear. People are under the impression that there are cap wizards out there capable of shaking their magic wands and making dead money go away. It doesn't work like that. Any time you give someone a signing bonus you are borrowing money from your own cap's future years. That money MUST be paid back one way or another unless the team can force the guy (or he does it voluntarily) to return money that is his. It virtually never happens with guys who aren't consciously screwing teams out of money. But IMO they could maybe keep Brees on the roster through June 1st so they can delay paying half his dead money. Will cause them problems in 2022 if they do that, but it might be worth it if they can save a few of the guys they'd like to keep using that money. One of the few cases I can remember is that Vontae Davis voluntarily repaid his bonus and gave up his guarantee after not playing only a week or two of his contract. But that won't happen with Brees. They don't save nearly that much money with all the dead cap Brees represents. The Saints couldn't sign Jadeveon Clowney because of cap problems this last year. It hurts. But they knew their window was closing fast. It was worth it to them to take another kick at the can. Didn't work, though, and that will impair their competitiveness a great deal the next year or two. Easton and Kwon Alexander seem virtually certain cuts as there's little dead money but significant savings. They've got around $4.2M to carry over from this year so that's a little something. Lattimore leaving would save them money but I think they really like him. Janoris Jenkins, Malcom Brown and Emanuel Sanders could go. Terron Armstead if they don't like him that much. Then some restructures. It'll be tough, but they can do it. I don't think they'll be particularly competitive next year anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 What they should do? Trade Sean Payton to Philly for a 1st. He might not want to stick around for the rebuild and it would give them a much-needed cost-controlled asset. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlgarsh Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 14 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: People are under the impression that there are cap wizards out there capable of shaking their magic wands and making dead money go away. It doesn't work like that. Any time you give someone a signing bonus you are borrowing money from your own cap's future years. That money MUST be paid back one way or another unless the team can force the guy (or he does it voluntarily) to return money that is his. It virtually never happens with guys who aren't consciously screwing teams out of money. But IMO they could maybe keep Brees on the roster through June 1st so they can delay paying half his dead money. Will cause them problems in 2022 if they do that, but it might be worth it if they can save a few of the guys they'd like to keep using that money. One of the few cases I can remember is that Vontae Davis voluntarily repaid his bonus and gave up his guarantee after not playing only a week or two of his contract. But that won't happen with Brees. They don't save nearly that much money with all the dead cap Brees represents. The Saints couldn't sign Jadeveon Clowney because of cap problems this last year. It hurts. But they knew their window was closing fast. It was worth it to them to take another kick at the can. Didn't work, though, and that will impair their competitiveness a great deal the next year or two. Easton and Kwon Alexander seem virtually certain cuts as there's little dead money but significant savings. They've got around $4.2M to carry over from this year so that's a little something. Lattimore leaving would save them money but I think they really like him. Janoris Jenkins, Malcom Brown and Emanuel Sanders could go. Terron Armstead if they don't like him that much. Then some restructures. It'll be tough, but they can do it. I don't think they'll be particularly competitive next year anyway. I thought if they retired the cap hit goes away? Instead of getting cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 I hate to say it but this really tarnishes Brees’s legacy. He let them mortgage their future for one more shot and yet he knew he was incapable of throwing 15 yards downfield. He should restructure and work for the league minimum as their backup/bridge for a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 7 minutes ago, Charles Romes said: I hate to say it but this really tarnishes Brees’s legacy. He let them mortgage their future for one more shot and yet he knew he was incapable of throwing 15 yards downfield. He should restructure and work for the league minimum as their backup/bridge for a few years. This 100% does NOT tarnish Brees's legacy. He's always been a max contract guy, as is his right. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 13 hours ago, FireChans said: Don’t we watch this movie play out every year? “how will the Saints manage their terrible cap situation this year?” (Saints easily manage their cap in the offseason) ”Alas, maybe next time” Yea, even though it always looks like a disaster - Mickey Loomis might be the best GM in pro sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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