Motorin' Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 22 minutes ago, FireChans said: Late 1st round RB is such a a mismanagement of resources. Not when you're getting an Alvin Kamara who's deadly in the passing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 7 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Take away the late and I'd agree. I think pick 25 and later is exactly when the RB value becomes worth it. Not that I'm begging the Bills to draft one there but if they like an RB at that spot it would be a valuable upgrade. They still have to draft the right player though. Edwards-Helaire has been a disappointment IMO. The Chiefs mistake wasn't drafting a RB at the end of the 1st, it was picking a middling player (so far). But even a middling player can pick up yards when the defense is dropping into deep zones. As of right now the Bills can't even do that. Nah. You can still get blue chip pass rushers, DB’s and WR’s in the late first. RB is a non-starter. The value is not there. 5 minutes ago, Motorin' said: Not when you're getting an Alvin Kamara who's deadly in the passing game. He was drafted in the third lol thank you for the assist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 5 hours ago, billsbackto81 said: Dude, as impressed as we all are with the dynamic passing attack the Bills have you'd have to be pretty naive to think they'll be any sustainable success in the future if they don't establish a competent run game soon. Honestly I'm surprised they've gotten this far. What Allen, Diggs and the offense have done this season is nothing short of remarkable. This is similar to what Baltimore did last year before they got figured out this year. Catch everyone by surprise with unconventional offense. I wouldn't expect the same results next year without a good rush attack. Doesn't have to be elite, just competent. I agree next year they need some run game but.... On the year they have 56 yards less than KC does. The ypc is 4.4 to 4.2. Not much difference 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 26 minutes ago, FireChans said: Nah. You can still get blue chip pass rushers, DB’s and WR’s in the late first. RB is a non-starter. The value is not there. He was drafted in the third lol thank you for the assist. Andy Reid disagrees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMuffin Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 (edited) Chris Simms is also on record saying that he doesn’t think the Bills will beat KC. Edited January 19, 2021 by McMuffin Duplicates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: Exactly this. The problem with our rush offense is defenses are giving it zero respect and they're being proven right. When we played the Chiefs we did what teams are doing to us, we backed off into deep zones and begged the Chiefs to run the ball. The difference is they were able to do it successfully to the tune of 245 yards. Imagine if they had our run offense in that game. We would have completely shut them down. Defenses are giving us numbers in the box where even a mediocre rush attack should be able to gash them and we're scraping together 2 yards at a time. Our short yardage runs must be bottom of the league. Just an average rush game next year takes our offense to another level. Last year this time everyone was talking about how the teams that can effectively run the ball are rising to the top in the playoffs. The Ravens stop Derrick Henry cold, the Bills stop the Ravens running game cold, and all of a sudden the running game doesn't matter in the 2020s NFL. Balance still counts, and the lack of a reliable run game is still a concern for me. I don't think it means we can't win, just that the ability to run the ball effectively would obviously help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 25 minutes ago, Motorin' said: Andy Reid disagrees And CEH wasn’t even the best RB in his class, let alone worth a late first. Wasted picks like that is how you end up shortening a Super Bowl window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 minute ago, FireChans said: And CEH wasn’t even the best RB in his class, let alone worth a late first. Wasted picks like that is how you end up shortening a Super Bowl window. Edwards-Helaire actually was the best back in the class, and I don’t think Andy Reid has any buyer’s remorse...he had a really good year before he got hurt and they’ve struggled to replace him. It was hardly a wasted pick. A luxury pick, perhaps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 minute ago, mannc said: Edwards-Helaire actually was the best back in the class, and I don’t think Andy Reid has any buyer’s remorse...he had a really good year before he got hurt and they’ve struggled to replace him. It was hardly a wasted pick. A luxury pick, perhaps... No he wasn’t. Taylor had way more yards. Yes he played more games but he also had a way better YPC. JK Dobbins had more rushing yards than CEH on 50 less carries! Antonio Gibson had 8 less yards on 11 less carries with 7 more rushing TDs. At best CEH had the third best rookie RB year this year and you could argue 4th. That’s HORRIFIC value for a first round pick, even at pick #32. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: Exactly this. The problem with our rush offense is defenses are giving it zero respect and they're being proven right. When we played the Chiefs we did what teams are doing to us, we backed off into deep zones and begged the Chiefs to run the ball. The difference is they were able to do it successfully to the tune of 245 yards. Imagine if they had our run offense in that game. We would have completely shut them down. Defenses are giving us numbers in the box where even a mediocre rush attack should be able to gash them and we're scraping together 2 yards at a time. Our short yardage runs must be bottom of the league. Just an average rush game next year takes our offense to another level. No, actually our power run percentage is pretty much middle of the league and we convert about 66% of the time...much better than last year when it was bottom of the league. The worst short yardage running team is actually KC, converting only 51%. They also have a worse stuff rate than the Bills, meaning a higher percentage of runs for losses. All evidence points to the Bills simply not running enough rather than us really being bad at it. Our RB's averaged 4.5 YPC this year(11th in the NFL), which is above average, actually better than KC's 4.2 YPC average(18th). Edited January 19, 2021 by Big Turk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Doc said: The Ravens brought the wind? Wind played for both teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 7 minutes ago, FireChans said: No he wasn’t. Taylor had way more yards. Yes he played more games but he also had a way better YPC. JK Dobbins had more rushing yards than CEH on 50 less carries! Antonio Gibson had 8 less yards on 11 less carries with 7 more rushing TDs. At best CEH had the third best rookie RB year this year and you could argue 4th. That’s HORRIFIC value for a first round pick, even at pick #32. It’s not horrific value. He went a few picks before Taylor. And if you happened to see Taylor’s hands during the wild card game, you know why Reid didn’t want him over CEH. Those other backs are good too, but they aren’t necessarily better than CEH. (I thought you were going to mention Akers, who looks really good.) i don’t see him as a “wasted pick” just because a few other backs had somewhat better stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 6 hours ago, gobills404 said: Our running backs have averaged 4.8 ypc over the last 8 games. The worst part of our run game is how little we use it even when it makes sense to. Not doubting you, just wondering where you found these data? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 7 minutes ago, Big Turk said: All evidence points to the Bills simply not running enough rather than us really being bad at it. Our RB's averaged 4.5 YPC this year(11th in the NFL), which is above average, actually better than KC's 4.2 YPC average(18th). Eh I don't especially value YPC as the end all be all of RB rankings. It doesn't tell you how consistent your rush offense is or how well it can pick up yards in critical situations. I much prefer DVOA for that sort of thing because it contextualizes their production: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/rb/2020 By that measurement Singletary is 37th and Moss is 32nd. I know their individual play isn't the only problem, run blocking and scheme are issues too. But neither of them has shown they can be a #1 RB in this league. And that isn't a position you get time to develop. You either have it or you don't. Chiefs rushing offense isn't particularly strong, true. But still better than ours: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/team-offense/2020 They're ranked 13th, we're 22nd. And if you want an idea of how far apart we are, Green Bay is ranked 5th, but the difference between Green Bay and Kansas City is smaller than the difference between us and Kansas City. Our ranking also includes designed Allen runs which presumably make our ranking look even better than if you just included the RBs. All the evidence says we need a serious upgrade next year to make our offense more balanced. Not that I want us to move away from a pass first mentality but it would be nice to get some kind of consistent production from our RBs, if only to keep defenses a little bit honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: Another Monday, another Chris Simms Said Something About Josh Allen thread. At least this time he's right about Allen. But it is true that the Ravens held the Bills to 10 offensive points and 220 total offensive yards. So the positive spin is "don't blitz Allen or he'll kill you," but the negative spin is the Ravens found a way to contain him. Allen would have put up more points if we needed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 56 minutes ago, McMuffin said: Chris Simms is also on record saying that he doesn’t think the Bills will beat KC. Chris Simms has a lot of respect for Josh but there are some parts of our team he believes do not match up but he has shown lots of respect to Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills404 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Not doubting you, just wondering where you found these data? Excluding the Ravens game I make it 4.5? I should've specified I meant our last 8 including the playoffs (so starting with the chargers game) and not the last 8 regular season games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 8 hours ago, RobbRiddick said: He did. I was listening to Ross Tucker's podcast earlier and he was saying he'd been getting tweets calling him a traitor for picking the Ravens. He had to explain that just because he thought the Ravens would win it doesn't mean he doesn't want the Bills to win. I really like Simms. Says what he really thinks instead of chasing clicks and views. He was high on Allen before the draft, I saw one show where I'm pretty sure people were laughing at him for saying he was the best of the 2018 class Yeh I like Chris excellent evaluation of the Colts game last week and how if Josh doesn’t make 5 or 6 plays only he can make the Bills aren’t even playing the Ravens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 4 hours ago, ganesh said: They have to give time for Moss to develop. It is not that our RBs are bad....Our run blocking has been spotty. play calling for running has been spotty Totally agree with you on this. Our oline is far better at pass blocking than run blocking. We need to at least run enough to keep the defense honest and set up the play action passes, which have worked well in games we at least attempt to establish a running game. I don't see why Singletary shouldn't carry the rock more, he showed great promise the second half of last year. He should be getting around 12-15 carries a game right now. I'd love to see Williams get activated for this game to see what he can do. He looked really good against what was the #1 ranked defense entering week 17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, McMuffin said: Chris Simms is also on record saying that he doesn’t think the Bills will beat KC. Is he now? When did he say this? I like Chris Simms but sheesh, with friends like him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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