Batman1876 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Josh is one of a kind and the growth we've seen in him since his rookie year has been unbelievable. Other teams will think they can replicate our success but they will fail. Josh Allen will end up beating other teams on the field and in their front office. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frat-Train Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Call me when he can check it down 40 times like the great Tua Tagalagalovolowlow 1 7 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Allen keeps working over the off season like he has, he will progress even further. Yes, he is performing with the elite now, but, he c an get even better. What excites me is that I think he realizes that..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 54 minutes ago, Batman1876 said: Josh is one of a kind and the growth we've seen in him since his rookie year has been unbelievable. Other teams will think they can replicate our success but they will fail. Josh Allen will end up beating other teams on the field and in their front office. Eh...I think that giving a 1st round QB at least into his 3rd year to prove himself is reasonable. Especially if he shows something in his 2nd like Josh did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, Doc said: Eh...I think that giving a 1st round QB at least into his 3rd year to prove himself is reasonable. Especially if he shows something in his 2nd like Josh did. Agree. Other teams might not be as lucky to land on a Josh Allen but giving a guy the time we gave Josh on a similar year 1 to 2 arc is not a bad way to go in any event. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 The difference is Josh showed flashes of brilliance in his rookie year, but also he looked a lot better on the field than his stats indicated due to a horrible O-line & one of, if not the worst, WR corps in the league. It was acknowledged that he was the rawest of the 1st round QBs of 2018,. If a young QB shows the flashes that Josh showed, the organization will let him grow. Even in his rookie year there were times he willed the team to victory. Without him the team would have been lucky if they won 3 games. By year 2 he was pulling out victories in the 4th quarter & leading the Bills to the playoffs. Stat boys may not have noticed how good he was getting, but we visual fans could tell he was the real deal. After what I saw his rookie year, I felt so confident in Josh I made some bets on the Bills winning up to 10 games and making the playoffs for the 2019 season. I cashed them all because it was obvious to me, even with his weak rookie stats, that Josh is a winner. On the other hand, you have a guy like Josh Rosen who played so poorly in his rookie year that he was exposed on tape for the whole league to see. He went from the 10th pick in the draft to traded for a low risk 2nd rounder. There was so little interest in him that Miami was able to trade their original 2nd rounder down to the pick they traded for Rosen & mitigate any risk by getting an additional 2020 2nd round pick back when they traded down. It was amazing Miami gave up that much because they were basically bidding against themselves, but soon realized their mistake & cut Rosen after 1 season with them. Another good example is Christian Hackenberg. A second round pick, he lasted 2 seasons with the Jets & was so bad in practice they wouldn't let him anywhere near the field in a real game. It was pretty obvious early on that he was a bust. I believe that a team can tell pretty early whether a QB has it or doesn't. If that wasn't the case, then why are so many rookie QBs cut and never play a down in the NFL? The player doesn't have to be brilliant as a rookie, but he has to show signs. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo2218 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) His post game interview was the most telling thing. He was nowhere near satisfied with his performance and that performance yielded 324 yds 2 passing TDs 1 rushing. I think he works harder trying to contain his anger more than playing Edited January 10, 2021 by buffalo2218 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 I see fans of QB needy teams clamoring for Trey Lance now, simply because of Josh Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) Or the NFL can stop pretending that Josh is an anomaly. Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, John Elway, Troy Aikmen, Steve Young, Payton Manning, Eli Manning all had similar levels improvement. Josh just improved a year or two faster than most of them. This whole "Josh Allen is an outlier" crap is one giant line the media is using to cover their ass for being so wrong. For every one John Elway or Josh Allen there will be 10 or 20 Ryan Leafs or Jimmy Claussens. But Josh is not the first, and won't be the last elite qb that needs to develop his skills. He was raw, but had the highest ceiling of all the qb's in his draft because he he the highest level of baseline talent. Edited January 10, 2021 by Motorin' 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAndrew Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 I agree, but I don’t think people realize how good Josh was his first two seasons. The stats weren’t there, but he was a playmaker who had nothing to work with on offense. Guys like Blaine Gabbert never looked good. People underrate what Josh did his first two seasons. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Doc said: Eh...I think that giving a 1st round QB at least into his 3rd year to prove himself is reasonable. Especially if he shows something in his 2nd like Josh did. I think the point is teams are going to be drafting those guys with size, mobility and a rocket arm regardless of the school they played at and their success. Josh was as big a boom or bust player that has ever entered the league. Get ready for a lot of busts if other GM's pick players with Allen's college resume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaoulDuke79 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 It's truly incredible the progress he's made since his rookie year. It's very uncommon and something I would expect to see maybe every 5 or 10 years if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Motorin' said: Or the NFL can stop pretending that Josh is an anomaly. He is an outlier. Based on his college production anyway. I agree his first two seasons in the NFL were far better than he is given credit for. The interesting thing about Allen in college vs the NFL is that most players, QB's especially, do not dominate games with their legs and mobility more at the NFL level than they do at the collegiate level. Allen is one of the rare players that has become more dominant with his legs at the next level. Usually it is a wash or players are athleticism is not has effective at the NFL level. The game was completely different in Bradshaw and Aikman's day. I'm guessing adjusting for inflation in QB efficiency Allen has improved a great deal more since his first year over guys like Bradshaw and Aikman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgiven Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Batman1876 said: Josh is one of a kind and the growth we've seen in him since his rookie year has been unbelievable. Other teams will think they can replicate our success but they will fail. Josh Allen will end up beating other teams on the field and in their front office. Josh who? they should get Deshaun Watson, the only good qb in the NFL pfft every team in the nfl should pursue him! Can they clone him and put one of him on all 32 teams?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Batman1876 said: Josh is one of a kind and the growth we've seen in him since his rookie year has been unbelievable. Other teams will think they can replicate our success but they will fail. Josh Allen will end up beating other teams on the field and in their front office. Not sure what your point is? Teams often struggle with the question "when to move on?" from a high draft pick QB who isn't panning out. And historically, only about 30% of 1st round draft picks do become capable NFL players much less Franchise Guys (that % may be higher recently). QB is a tricky position and young QB typically struggle, abetted by the fact that teams that draft high are often bad teams with crap talent on OL and at offensive skill positions. It's not a coincidence that two of the young QB who had most success recently were 1) drafted at the end of the first onto a talented team that rebuilt the offense around him 2) drafted by a perennial playoff team that was loaded with offensive talent and went to the playoffs his rookie season, while he sat on the bench The thing about Josh is: 1) You could see that the team became instantly better when he started. He has that "IT" factor and he plays "like his ass is on fire" and lays it all out there 2) You could see that he improved significantly from the start of his rookie season to the last game, then again into his 2nd season, then again from the start to the end of his second season So it wasn't just "whoa he's bad for 2 years now WheeeeeeDogggies! he's good!" You could also see that it was his work ethic that raised him and set him apart. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 2 hours ago, bigK14094 said: Allen keeps working over the off season like he has, he will progress even further. Yes, he is performing with the elite now, but, he c an get even better. What excites me is that I think he realizes that..... Matt Hasselbeck breaks down his development well on Countdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 18 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: I think the point is teams are going to be drafting those guys with size, mobility and a rocket arm regardless of the school they played at and their success. Josh was as big a boom or bust player that has ever entered the league. Get ready for a lot of busts if other GM's pick players with Allen's college resume. Maybe but there need to be those kinds of players. How many are there out there, say, this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: He is an outlier. Based on his college production anyway. I agree his first two seasons in the NFL were far better than he is given credit for. The interesting thing about Allen in college vs the NFL is that most players, QB's especially, do not dominate games with their legs and mobility more at the NFL level than they do at the collegiate level. Allen is one of the rare players that has become more dominant with his legs at the next level. Usually it is a wash or players are athleticism is not has effective at the NFL level. The game was completely different in Bradshaw and Aikman's day. I'm guessing adjusting for inflation in QB efficiency Allen has improved a great deal more since his first year over guys like Bradshaw and Aikman. You're making analytic claims with evidence. Go look at Bradshaw, Aikman and Elways first couple of seasons vs their best seasons. And I'm not buying that you've looked at every elite NFL qb's college stats to be able to say Josh is an outlier. 9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Not sure what your point is? Teams often struggle with the question "when to move on?" from a high draft pick QB who isn't panning out. And historically, only about 30% of 1st round draft picks do become capable NFL players much less Franchise Guys (that % may be higher recently). QB is a tricky position and young QB typically struggle, abetted by the fact that teams that draft high are often bad teams with crap talent on OL and at offensive skill positions. It's not a coincidence that two of the young QB who had most success recently were 1) drafted at the end of the first onto a talented team that rebuilt the offense around him 2) drafted by a perennial playoff team that was loaded with offensive talent and went to the playoffs his rookie season, while he sat on the bench The thing about Josh is: 1) You could see that the team became instantly better when he started. He has that "IT" factor and he plays "like his ass is on fire" and lays it all out there 2) You could see that he improved significantly from the start of his rookie season to the last game, then again into his 2nd season, then again from the start to the end of his second season So it wasn't just "whoa he's bad for 2 years now WheeeeeeDogggies! he's good!" You could also see that it was his work ethic that raised him and set him apart. Josh demonstrated constant improvement games 1-8 to games 8-16 each season. And his biggest jump occured from the first half of his rookie season to the second half of his rookie season. I do think that he may regress a little bit next year if full crowds are reintroduced. But definitely believe in his ability to keep getting better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Motorin' said: You're making analytic claims with evidence. Go look at Bradshaw, Aikman and Elways first couple of seasons vs their best seasons. And I'm not buying that you've looked at every elite NFL qb's college stats to be able to say Josh is an outlier. There is an article out there from the 2018 draft. Something like "For Josh to succeed Math will have to be wrong". It was posted again on this board earlier this week. With regards to Aikman and Bradshaw etc. you still have to compare what they were doing their first season or two vs. their peers. Josh is an anomaly. And I'm totally cool with that. The Josh haters like Geoff Schwartz and the like can go kick sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: There is an article out there from the 2018 draft. Something like "For Josh to succeed Math will have to be wrong". It was posted again on this board earlier this week. With regards to Aikman and Bradshaw etc. you still have to compare what they were doing their first season or two vs. their peers. Josh is an anomaly. And I'm totally cool with that. The Josh haters like Geoff Schwartz and the like can go kick sand. You can say whatever you want about math without using math. It doesn't make it math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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