Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Doc Brown said: - Agreed. The opposing party usually wins the midterms. Biden was the most moderate candidate in the primaries and I was glad to see they thoroughly rejected Bernie after it looked like he might have a shot early on. The Dems only have two years with a razor thin majority so my hope is they have to somehow get a public option through, make the tax cuts for us plebs permanent, lift the cap on SALT deductions, and increase taxes on people making above 400k all through reconciliation. Increasing the federal minimum wage and getting $2000 stimulus checks out are also possible. If they don't achieve most of this they're screwed as a party at least until the next most important election of our lives. I don’t understand why liberals or democrats want SALT cap deductions lifted. That would be a tax reduction on people who own expensive homes in well to do areas and pay lots of state income tax because they are paid so much. If one really cares about helping the middle class The caps just make sure wealthy home owners and high earners in wealthy states and counties pay your fair share to the federal government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Big Blitz said: I can get on board with that....however on health care... Because I know there is no repealing the ACA I'd like to know why the Public Option is going to be better for the country. Not just the poor that can't afford insurance that I thought the ACA fixed. Everyone. I want to know I'm keeping my doctor. That my premiums will come down (ACA said $2500 in savings never seen it). And most importantly that we remain the nation people look to for innovations and treatments. At the very least I'm listening to ideas whereas 10 years ago this was a non starter. In simplest terms, the public option if implemented correctly would give people the option to buy into a government run health insurance program at a lower cost over the private health insurance companies that currently compromise the ACA marketplace. This would theoretically force these private insurance companies to find a way to compete with this lower cost alternative in order to turn a profit. They would be forced to improve benefits and/or decrease premiums. It would help middle class people the most who don't qualify for federal assistance the ACA provides. Unlike single payer, it won't force anybody out of the plan they have now or potentially lead to a decrease in "innovations and treatments." 41 minutes ago, Warcodered said: It might be interesting because the Democrats are gaining control right before things should get going on the path to normal via. Them being in charge as things get back to normal and the economy starts to recover might give them a boost in the midterm. I like your optimism but it would be an exception to the norm if the party of the sitting president didn't lose House or Senate seats in the midterms. I'm pretty sure 2002 was the last time the same party didn't lose seats and that was mostly due to 9/11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StHustle Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 8 hours ago, BillStime said: Four years of Trump feeding his supporters fake news resulted in what happened today. Trump needs to resign immediately. That Lincoln Project statement is a bit extreme but I agree with some of it. The first two images...its crazy because earlier the thought came through my mind like Trump samn near deserves the death penalty for this! Now after a cooler mind prevails I wouldn't actually wanna see him executed but jailed for his remaining years would be fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 It's hard to believe how incompetent the Capitol Police are . They knew this was coming for weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I don’t understand why liberals or democrats want SALT cap deductions lifted. That would be a tax reduction on people who own expensive homes in well to do areas and pay lots of state income tax because they are paid so much. If one really cares about helping the middle class The caps just make sure wealthy home owners and high earners in wealthy states and counties pay your fair share to the federal government. You'd think so but what it actually does is drive wealthy people out of highly taxed states because they can't rely on those SALT deductions anymore leaving the lower and middle class holding the bag due to budget decreases. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 7 hours ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said: I believe that is the same smoking jacket that cousin Eddie was wearing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Let's ALL march down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol.... Donald the Traitor Trump. Incited the riot that ensued. Traitors all. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 15 hours ago, Big Blitz said: They all should be arrested. Full stop. Their actions speak for me about as much as I'm sure Antifas or BLMs actions speak for all Biden voters. Just don't come in here with fake outrage over this while you were silent as those 2 groups burned down entire blocks of cities and the historic St. John's Episcopalian Church next to the White House. Over events that often didn't happen the way the media portrayed them to happen. Your biggest issue with that was Trump took a picture in front of it. Again, these people should all be arrested. Period. I hope that you are missing the point rather than making excuses in order to defend the indefensible. This is not about a group of protestors getting carried away by their own rhetoric or about a cadre of radicals inciting anarchy or a gang of petty criminals creating opportunities for looting and vandalism. The outrage here is about the POTUS and his surrogates inciting his followers to attack the US Capitol in order to overturn an US election. Trump incited insurrection. That's sedition and treason. In 1861, Ulysses S Grant said: there are but two parties now: traitors and patriots. That's true today as well. This is not about left or right or conservative or liberal. This is about democracy or dictatorship and about loyalty to the US Constitution or a demented would be dictator. Anyone who continues to defend Trump and his sycophants after yesterday is as much a traitor as he is. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 "orange man supporters bad" So bold, so brave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 8 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: No it's not "literally no different." Over the summer there were TONS of peaceful protests nationwide. Remember that this was something that was in every single state in the Union. And in some--but not all-- of those states, there was violence. And guess what... some of that violence was incited by the right, not the left. That's very well-documented. It was ultimately a nationwide peaceful protest with violent uprisings that garnered a lot of attention. This, however, is a protest (should we even call it that? Honestly?) focused on a single event that's really a representation of our entire democracy, and these "protestors" were literally attempting a coup. What they were attempting was actual treason, and they should honestly be tried for it. And sadly, they're just sheep following a narcissistic leader with a very low-IQ who is simply unable to admit defeat. This is not like the Summer. This is much, much worse. Those protests were not peaceful. People were shot and killed. Local business was looted and destroyed. Cars were set on fire and destroyed. Were there peaceful protests, yes but those are not the ones I am speaking about. As far as sheep. Yes those people yesterday were sheep. And so were the people this Summer. People being told by the media and celebrities that the country they live in doesnt care about them. I am not arguing this anymore. I am going to teach my kids to love all people, including unborn babies. I am going to focus on trying to raise good people who can think with common sense and know when they are being used as pawns. I am done playing the game. Enjoy watching this country destroy itself. Its not just one side. As usual the media has led people to believe Trump supporters are nothing but low iq white people who have relations with their sister and carry a confederate flag and Biden supporters are nothing but college professors who are so isolated from everyday life that they couldnt begin to understand the struggles of the working man. Narratives like that breed contempt and its on both sides. I am officially done with major parties. They both make me sick in their use of real people to play power games. They went from sending the poor to fight their wars overseas to sending the poor to fight their wars against one another. And it wont stop until the sheep on both sides wake up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Fan Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) Trumps a POS/narcissist/garbage that deserves to be tried for all his crimes after he leaves office. If people can’t see that now I don’t know what else to say. If I wanted to take a very slight silver lining from all that yesterday it’s that these elected officials might have felt some fear most Americans face day to day. For example I expose myself working in a building with Covid everyday making a working class wage. For performance or budgeting related reasons I fear every day could be my last. Elected officials mostly have cushy/well compensated jobs. I’m not excusing the behavior in the slightest at all I’m just saying I’m deeply saddened though to hear at least 4 people had to die in that. Edited January 7, 2021 by Another Fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, ALF said: It's hard to believe how incompetent the Capitol Police are . They knew this was coming for weeks. I have a feeling Trump is to blame for it. Just seemed too perfect they line guys up everywhere for BLM, and just put a couple of rooks for WLM. 46 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: Enjoy watching this country destroy itself. Its not just one side. As usual the media has led people to believe Trump supporters are nothing but low iq white people who have relations with their sister and carry a confederate flag Yet half the people arrested are from those areas, hell the guy who wrecked Pelosi's office is from Arkansas. No but in reality we need better education in these areas so they can be less likely to be fooled by someone like a Trump again. Edited January 7, 2021 by TBBills 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, SoTier said: I hope that you are missing the point rather than making excuses in order to defend the indefensible. This is not about a group of protestors getting carried away by their own rhetoric or about a cadre of radicals inciting anarchy or a gang of petty criminals creating opportunities for looting and vandalism. The outrage here is about the POTUS and his surrogates inciting his followers to attack the US Capitol in order to overturn an US election. Trump incited insurrection. That's sedition and treason. In 1861, Ulysses S Grant said: there are but two parties now: traitors and patriots. That's true today as well. This is not about left or right or conservative or liberal. This is about democracy or dictatorship and about loyalty to the US Constitution or a demented would be dictator. Anyone who continues to defend Trump and his sycophants after yesterday is as much a traitor as he is. The problem we face is this isn't the end but the beginning. Its also a message to the radical left that they don't hold a monopoly on violence and anarchy. The left thinks the 2016 election was fixed and the right thinks the 2020 election was fixed too. Some have suggested what's coming is some form of a 2nd civil war. I fear they may be right. Personally, I have no dog in this fight and my suspicion is the people behind the scenes are inciting and backing both sides of the conflict for reasons that serve their own self-interest. I'm not sure why any of these protesters support Trump at this point. My postmortem on his 4 years in office is he failed to deliver on any of his promises and in some ways I view him as a "false prophet". He was going to get us out of foreign wars and to his credit didn't get entangled in any new adventures but still didn't withdraw us from anything either. He was going to drain the swamp but surrounded himself with swamp dwellers in his administration. No charges, indictments, trials, or convictions for any alleged "deep state" illegal operations. For all the heat Barr took from the left it looks like he was a deep state plant put in place to block any real investigations. Where are the readouts from all these investigations? For all of Trumps blusters and threats he failed to declassify any intelligence documents that would "prove" he was the target of conspiracies inside the government. For all his talk about supporting the little guy his tax reform enriched large corporations. His COVID strategy was a disaster as his team pushed all responsibilities to the States and did little to lead. His support for eliminating the ACA (Obamacare) made little sense given the context of a pandemic. His foreign policy alienated and pushed allies away and continually changed course. "The Wall" was never completed and to my knowledge Mexico has not paid one cent towards any of the work to date. He boasted about the stock market confirming this was the "greatest economy ever" but what it really represented was the income inequality gap between the rich and poor (last I checked poor people don't hold big stocks, IRA's, or 401K positions). Just to name a few things here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Pretty amazing how few arrests were made. Incredible, really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backintheday544 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 6 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I don’t understand why liberals or democrats want SALT cap deductions lifted. That would be a tax reduction on people who own expensive homes in well to do areas and pay lots of state income tax because they are paid so much. If one really cares about helping the middle class The caps just make sure wealthy home owners and high earners in wealthy states and counties pay your fair share to the federal government. It wouldn’t have a major impact on the very wealthy. SALT was always an add back for Alternative Minimum Tax so wealthy people never really got a deduction for it. This hits middle class people. Take CA for example. Assuming an effective tax rate of 7 percent for someone making $120,000 ($60,000 a spouse). That’s $8,400 in state income taxes so just $1,600 in real estate taxes and personal property taxes before they’re impacted. If it was someone in CA making $1,000,000 under the old law, their SALT is added back for AMT anyways so they don’t get the benefit of the deduction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 21 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: The problem we face is this isn't the end but the beginning. Its also a message to the radical left that they don't hold a monopoly on violence and anarchy. The left thinks the 2016 election was fixed and the right thinks the 2020 election was fixed too. Some have suggested what's coming is some form of a 2nd civil war. I fear they may be right. Personally, I have no dog in this fight and my suspicion is the people behind the scenes are inciting and backing both sides of the conflict for reasons that serve their own self-interest. I'm not sure why any of these protesters support Trump at this point. My postmortem on his 4 years in office is he failed to deliver on any of his promises and in some ways I view him as a "false prophet". He was going to get us out of foreign wars and to his credit didn't get entangled in any new adventures but still didn't withdraw us from anything either. He was going to drain the swamp but surrounded himself with swamp dwellers in his administration. No charges, indictments, trials, or convictions for any alleged "deep state" illegal operations. For all the heat Barr took from the left it looks like he was a deep state plant put in place to block any real investigations. Where are the readouts from all these investigations? For all of Trumps blusters and threats he failed to declassify any intelligence documents that would "prove" he was the target of conspiracies inside the government. For all his talk about supporting the little guy his tax reform enriched large corporations. His COVID strategy was a disaster as his team pushed all responsibilities to the States and did little to lead. His support for eliminating the ACA (Obamacare) made little sense given the context of a pandemic. His foreign policy alienated and pushed allies away and continually changed course. "The Wall" was never completed and to my knowledge Mexico has not paid one cent towards any of the work to date. He boasted about the stock market confirming this was the "greatest economy ever" but what it really represented was the income inequality gap between the rich and poor (last I checked poor people don't hold big stocks, IRA's, or 401K positions). Just to name a few things here. I'm sorry to inform you that your application to join billsfans.com has been denied. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: It wouldn’t have a major impact on the very wealthy. SALT was always an add back for Alternative Minimum Tax so wealthy people never really got a deduction for it. This hits middle class people. Take CA for example. Assuming an effective tax rate of 7 percent for someone making $120,000 ($60,000 a spouse). That’s $8,400 in state income taxes so just $1,600 in real estate taxes and personal property taxes before they’re impacted. If it was someone in CA making $1,000,000 under the old law, their SALT is added back for AMT anyways so they don’t get the benefit of the deduction. I continue to be amazed at this dialogue. You don’t make poor people rich by making rich people poor and laundering money through the government to get it back out to the people is a really bad way to redistribute wealth. Most of that money just stays in the government or flows out of the country to support all sorts of random causes across the globe, or is spent our own military industrial complex. During the Great Recession I was asked to pay another 2.5% in federal income tax to support the cause. I gladly did so, with zero complaints. With the Recession clearly behind us, my uppermost rate was reduced back down by the same 2.5%...seemed fair to me. Edited January 7, 2021 by SoCal Deek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said: Those protests were not peaceful. People were shot and killed. Local business was looted and destroyed. Cars were set on fire and destroyed. Were there peaceful protests, yes but those are not the ones I am speaking about. As far as sheep. Yes those people yesterday were sheep. And so were the people this Summer. People being told by the media and celebrities that the country they live in doesnt care about them. I am not arguing this anymore. I am going to teach my kids to love all people, including unborn babies. I am going to focus on trying to raise good people who can think with common sense and know when they are being used as pawns. I am done playing the game. Enjoy watching this country destroy itself. Its not just one side. As usual the media has led people to believe Trump supporters are nothing but low iq white people who have relations with their sister and carry a confederate flag and Biden supporters are nothing but college professors who are so isolated from everyday life that they couldnt begin to understand the struggles of the working man. Narratives like that breed contempt and its on both sides. I am officially done with major parties. They both make me sick in their use of real people to play power games. They went from sending the poor to fight their wars overseas to sending the poor to fight their wars against one another. And it wont stop until the sheep on both sides wake up. We have been watching this country destroy itself for the past 4 and more years. It is just one side ignoring the treasonous Agent of Chaos known as The Donald. 24 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Pretty amazing how few arrests were made. Incredible, really. Give facial recognition time to work 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I continue to be amazed at this dialogue. You don’t make poor people rich by making rich people poor and laundering money through the government to get it back out to the people is a really bad way to redistribute wealth. Most of that money just stays in the government or flows out of the country to support all sorts of random causes across the globe, or is spent our own military industrial complex. During the Great Recession I was asked to pay another 2.5% in federal income tax to support the cause. I gladly did so, with zero complaints. With the Recession clearly behind us, my uppermost rate was reduced back down by the same 2.5%...seemed fair to me. This is fair. I am torn on SALT. As a professional (attorney) in the Tri-State Area, it was my lifeline to home ownership in an otherwise unaffordable market for those of us who make less than $1M/year. Basically it made home ownership comparable (if not cheaper) to renting in NYC for those of us who could scratch together the downpayment. But I recognize that it was a handout. I'm not technically "middle class" in the national sense - I'm upper-class compared nationwide. But in NYC and the surrounding suburbs, I'm definitely upper-middle class and I'm competing with finance professionals for real estate. When Trump took it away, it hit my pocketbook HARD. And it seemed punitive (directly targeted at the NYC suburbs who voted against him). If he really wanted to remove a rich tax "loophole," he could've dealt with the carried interest tax advantage that PE and hedge fund professionals use to pay a much lower tax rate than the rest of us. Edited January 7, 2021 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Fan Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 49 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: The problem we face is this isn't the end but the beginning. Its also a message to the radical left that they don't hold a monopoly on violence and anarchy. The left thinks the 2016 election was fixed and the right thinks the 2020 election was fixed too. Some have suggested what's coming is some form of a 2nd civil war. I fear they may be right. Personally, I have no dog in this fight and my suspicion is the people behind the scenes are inciting and backing both sides of the conflict for reasons that serve their own self-interest. I'm not sure why any of these protesters support Trump at this point. My postmortem on his 4 years in office is he failed to deliver on any of his promises and in some ways I view him as a "false prophet". He was going to get us out of foreign wars and to his credit didn't get entangled in any new adventures but still didn't withdraw us from anything either. He was going to drain the swamp but surrounded himself with swamp dwellers in his administration. No charges, indictments, trials, or convictions for any alleged "deep state" illegal operations. For all the heat Barr took from the left it looks like he was a deep state plant put in place to block any real investigations. Where are the readouts from all these investigations? For all of Trumps blusters and threats he failed to declassify any intelligence documents that would "prove" he was the target of conspiracies inside the government. For all his talk about supporting the little guy his tax reform enriched large corporations. His COVID strategy was a disaster as his team pushed all responsibilities to the States and did little to lead. His support for eliminating the ACA (Obamacare) made little sense given the context of a pandemic. His foreign policy alienated and pushed allies away and continually changed course. "The Wall" was never completed and to my knowledge Mexico has not paid one cent towards any of the work to date. He boasted about the stock market confirming this was the "greatest economy ever" but what it really represented was the income inequality gap between the rich and poor (last I checked poor people don't hold big stocks, IRA's, or 401K positions). Just to name a few things here. All of that as well as not lowering the national debt in his years in office https://www.statista.com/statistics/187867/public-debt-of-the-united-states-since-1990/ I understood his appeal at first and was empathetic to his supporters but the experiment didn’t work. Time to move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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