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Dawson Knox needs to go....now.


Kwai San

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4 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

draft TE early.. That's how you can afford it. That's how you keep yourself out of cap hell. 


 

How early - are you talking rounds 1-3?  Is TE more important than potentially replacing a starting guard (Mongo) or starting tackle (Williams)?  How about DE and our need there (Hughes or Murphy)?  What about LB if we let Milano walk?

 

You have picks only in the 1st 3 rounds and you potentially have 4-5 starting positions that will need filled or get younger that should be much higher priority than TE.

 

I could see a TE if someone drops almost a round from where they are expected, but you already have 2 TEs on rookie salaries and Gilliam is minimum salary player - so even a draft pick is not really cheaper than the TEs in the room.

 

I just do not see them targeting a TE in their first 3 picks.  I think they have more than enough spots to be looking for that unless the value is so far above the pick - TE will not fall into their BPA.

 

I could see an extra 6th round pick for a potential PS player at the position, but an early pick seems highly unlikely.

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7 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

How early - are you talking rounds 1-3?  Is TE more important than potentially replacing a starting guard (Mongo) or starting tackle (Williams)?  How about DE and our need there (Hughes or Murphy)?  What about LB if we let Milano walk?

 

You have picks only in the 1st 3 rounds and you potentially have 4-5 starting positions that will need filled or get younger that should be much higher priority than TE.

 

I could see a TE if someone drops almost a round from where they are expected, but you already have 2 TEs on rookie salaries and Gilliam is minimum salary player - so even a draft pick is not really cheaper than the TEs in the room.

 

I just do not see them targeting a TE in their first 3 picks.  I think they have more than enough spots to be looking for that unless the value is so far above the pick - TE will not fall into their BPA.

 

I could see an extra 6th round pick for a potential PS player at the position, but an early pick seems highly unlikely.

these posts are opinionated. You don't see it but others do.. I can see a second round pick being a TE, If its a stud that slips then we move up for it.. Again this is all opinionated stuff. you have your beliefs I have mine.. the staying out of cap hell meaning we don't get a stud that drops to us in FA.

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49 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

 

Yep - I believe (we will have to see how everything plays out) Kroft is totally replaced by Sweeney and the TE group next year looks very similar to this year.  
 

I could see them working with Lee Smith to step away, but even that I think gets replaced by Becker from the PS over the long term.

 

I just do not see the fit or the need for a receiving TE on the roster.

 

Becker is still on the PS?  Didn't realize that!  He could be the next Lee Smith.

 

27 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

draft TE early.. That's how you can afford it. That's how you keep yourself out of cap hell. 

 

They did that last year, they drafted two Knox and Sweeney.  And Gilliam this year is  playing TE.

 

By drafting one, are you trying to improve the TE position or make it worse?  I'm only asking because the likelihood of improving it are pretty low.  Take away Kerse, Kelce, and Gronk, how many great TE's are there in the league?  Even good ones, only about 1/2 the league have TE's have more receptions than Knox had his rookie year and about3/4 have a TE with more yards than Knox had last season.

 

As Rochesterfan stated, think of Beasley as the TE on the team

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27 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Becker is still on the PS?  Didn't realize that!  He could be the next Lee Smith.

 

 

They did that last year, they drafted two Knox and Sweeney.  And Gilliam this year is  playing TE.

 

By drafting one, are you trying to improve the TE position or make it worse?  I'm only asking because the likelihood of improving it are pretty low.  Take away Kerse, Kelce, and Gronk, how many great TE's are there in the league?  Even good ones, only about 1/2 the league have TE's have more receptions than Knox had his rookie year and about3/4 have a TE with more yards than Knox had last season.

 

As Rochesterfan stated, think of Beasley as the TE on the team

We didn't draft them last year we drafted them in 2019. Knox has bad catching abilities. if he cant catch the ball with consistency for 2 years then he's a liability. If your not a big time blocking TE and you cant catch the ball then where does that put him? I feel we can improve on Knox in this years draft. 

 

And lets take away Kerse Kelce and Gronk out of the equation and see who we would rather have

 

Kittle

Hockenson

Waller

Andrews

 

want me to continue? 

 

Bottom line. Its not a roll of the dice on TE like it is on QB. I think we can improve on what we have through the draft and I think we will..

Edited by PrimeTime101
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17 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

We didn't draft them last year we drafted them in 2019. Knox has bad catching abilities. if he cant catch the ball with consistency for 2 years then he's a liability. If your not a big time blocking TE and you cant catch the ball then where does that put him? I feel we can improve on Knox in this years draft. 

 

And lets take away Kerse Kelce and Gronk out of the equation and see who we would rather have

 

Kittle

Hockenson

Waller

Andrews

 

want me to continue? 

 

Bottom line. Its not a roll of the dice on TE like it is on QB. I think we can improve on what we have through the draft and I think we will..

 

First off I believe this is 2020 so last year was 2019.  Including the draft Knox was selected in, there's only been two drafts, this year and last year.  If you don't consider 2019 last year, please tell me what is last year so I can adjust my calendar to agree with yours.

 

Second, when I said the name Kerse, I meant Kittle, my bad  So I would put Kittle on the line above with the great ones.  Yes please continue your list of decent to good TE's but not great game changers.  Maybe some are even game changers on teams that don't have that great of a WR group.  If we wanted to have a separate list of TE's with the best physical skills to play TE, I'd again have Gronk, Kelce, and Kittle in that list, but also add Knox while most of those other names on your list wouldn't be there.  Considering how rare that it, don't think you want to give up on that so quickly.

 

Knox is still developing, he came from a college offense that didn't use the TE much at all.  Will he improve I don't know for certain, but the one thing I do know is that you don't know either.  But you are willing to give up on a 3rd round draft pick after 2 seasons.  That's the way bad football teams operate.  Glad you're not in charge as I'm sure you'd have got rid of Allen last year too as was close to if not dead last in many passing categories.

 

 

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Just now, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

First off I believe this is 2020 so last year was 2019.  Including the draft Knox was selected in, there's only been two drafts, this year and last year.  If you don't consider 2019 last year, please tell me what is last year so I can adjust my calendar to agree with yours.

 

Second, when I said the name Kerse, I meant Kittle, my bad  So I would put Kittle on the line above with the great ones.  Yes please continue your list of decent to good TE's but not great game changers.  Maybe some are even game changers on teams that don't have that great of a WR group.  If we wanted to have a separate list of TE's with the best physical skills to play TE, I'd again have Gronk, Kelce, and Kittle in that list, but also add Knox while most of those other names on your list wouldn't be there.  Considering how rare that it, don't think you want to give up on that so quickly.

 

Knox is still developing, he came from a college offense that didn't use the TE much at all.  Will he improve I don't know for certain, but the one thing I do know is that you don't know either.  But you are willing to give up on a 3rd round draft pick after 2 seasons.  That's the way bad football teams operate.  Glad you're not in charge as I'm sure you'd have got rid of Allen last year too as was close to if not dead last in many passing categories.

 

 

Want to know the difference between us and other top 5 teams? a solid TE. We disagree move on..

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5 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

This just is not happening - in my opinion.  I don’t think the Bills are looking for a legit #1 TE an certainly do not seem like they will have the Cap space to trade for #1.

 

They are asking their TEs - be it Knox, Kroft, Smith, or Gilliam to play a half back blocking role.  That does not work for guys like Kelce, Gesicki, Waller, Engram, etc.  They aren’t blockers - they are glorified receivers and that role is picked up by Beasley for the Bills - who by the way has more receptions than all the TEs except Kelce and Waller and those 2 lead their teams in catches by quite a bit and I would rather have Diggs leading the team.

 

People in this thread (not you at all) are crapping on Knox and yes he still has a long ways to go, but the expectations just make no sense.  People want a TE like Gesicki, but then the Dolphins are running him out of the slot and taking a different pass catcher off the field.  The offense the Bills are running is predicated on using a FB/HB and/or the RB to diagnose coverage - get extra protection- and slide out to draw coverage away from the primary receivers.

 

The #1 TEs in this league are all receivers and they basically play the identical role to Beasley and so you are not really replacing Knox - you are looking to replacing Beasley.  He is your seam route runner, he is you flare control route runner, and he is the QB safety blanket.

 

Of course the Bills want more consistency from Knox, but considering Knox, Kroft, Sweeney, and even Gilliam are all basic clones - that seems to be what they are looking for in a #1 TE.  Blocking and a few routes with mismatches and leak outs around the goal line and as a safety valve is what you are going to mostly get.  A few routes where they use his athletic ability to get a one on one to help clear out space - Josh just needs to take what they are giving.

 

The only way I seen the Bills improving the TE position at this point is if a highly ranked 1st rounder falls so far as to be unavoidable.  I do not see a trade or FA that is significantly better (due to money) and I think they will have some holes to fill in the first 3 rounds that keep TEs away.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Knox’s blocking is comparable to his receiving. Kelce has also lined up in KC backfield. KC fields at times lineups with Hill, Kelce, Watkins, Robinson/Hardiman. No one is taken off the field to allow Kelce to play

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Edited by Solomon Grundy
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2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Agree.  The other thing to is with the WR group the Bills have, how much is the TE going to be targeted?  Like you pointed out, Beasley is basically receiving many of those targets.  I think the Bills are just as effective going with 4 WR sets, Diggs, Beasley, Davis, and Brown or even McKenzie while out and take the TE off the field.  Other than having someone like Kelce or Kerse, can't imagine that 3 WR and a TE is going to worry the defense that much more.  Knox is also good enough that he needs to be accounted for by the defense, they can't ignore him like they could with maybe Smith so he still serves a purpose even if he's more a decoy, the defense still needs to worry about him.

See KC Chiefs

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Knox sucks, but we’re not going to be getting rid of him. We’re going to have to live with him, because McDermott and Beane think he could be good for some reason even though he makes so many mistakes (just like Cody Ford). There are also very few ways to actually upgrade at tight end, because actual good tight ends rarely hit free agency. I really hope he doesn’t get a second contract from us, but he will be here for the next two years.

Edited by MWK
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2 minutes ago, MWK said:

Knox sucks, but we’re not going to be getting rid of him. We’re going to have to live with him, because McDermott and Beane think he could be good for some reason even though he makes so many mistakes. There are also very few ways to actually upgrade at tight end, because actual good tight ends rarely hit free agency. I really hope he doesn’t get a second contract from us.

There's a pretty good one playing at Iowa State that'll be in the draft. Draftniks are giving him a 2-4 rd grade. Former basketball player too. 

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2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Once again today, Knox is the only serious pass-catching tight end active.  Regardless of what several of us may think if him, it's pretty clear that he's McDermott's man.  

 

Knox makes some pretty stellar plays, and he works hard. For the foreseeable future, he's McDermott's guy. 

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2 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

He is never going to be an elite player but playing well today...

 

He was picked at 96 in the draft and is probably playing to that standard.. The guy on the other team today Fant is pretty damn good but he got picked at 20..

How do you know he’ll never be elite? He’s still learning the TE position.....I think he takes a huge jump next year.

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Just now, streetkings01 said:

How do you know he’ll never be elite? He’s still learning the TE position.....I think he takes a huge jump next year.

 

Its an opinion friend..

 

I dont claim any clairvoyance ability...

 

Just keeping my expectations modest like I do for any end of third round pick...

 

 

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2 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

He is never going to be an elite player but playing well today...

 

He was picked at 96 in the draft and is probably playing to that standard.. The guy on the other team today Fant is pretty damn good but he got picked at 20..

Maybe never elite, but still possible to be a high performer.  Consistency is what he needs.  Don’t know if he will work hard enough to get there but his flashes show not to give up on him just yet.  There is more upside potential.  

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