Great Lombardi Article on Brady/Arians Rift (subscription required)

[Coach Tuesday]

Really insightful article by Michael Lombardi in today’s Athletic (subscription required - but honestly if you’re not paying for this content right now you should have your internet shut off).  Basically comes down to a completely different approach to winning games (vs. championships).  Lombardi is a Brady confidant - you wonder if TB12 fed him some of this - but it strikes me as a correct assessment of the problem.

 

“The best example of this vast difference occurred last Monday night against the Rams. The Bucs had the ball at their 41-yard line, with slightly over two minutes left in the first half, with the game tied at 14. The Bucs faced a third-and-5, on which Brady completed a short pass to Antonio Brown for the first down and the two-minute warning. The Bucs had the ball at midfield, seemingly in control of the half. Coming out of the two-minute warning, Brady philosophically knows he has two objectives. The first would be to score either a touchdown or a field goal.  And the second is to not allow the Rams to get the ball back with much time, as they would get the ball to start the second half. Brady has been schooled over the last 19 years on the importance of winning the middle eight (the last four minutes of the first half and first four of the second half).”

[Mango]

A lot of if's in there, but I get the point and don't totally disagree. The need to "look towards the future" is silly at the moment. I don't see them bailing on Brady in 2021. And I do not see any reason to part with Arians. If this is Arians last stand, he will be out on his own terms in short order and will bring you more than enough success that you become one of the top landing spots for any coach when he does. Draft a guy in the bottom of the first this year, sure. Let him sit for a year. Let Brady walk/retire. Let Arians help select his replacement as he rides into the sunset after 2023 or whenever. 

[Rochesterfan]

47 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Really insightful article by Michael Lombardi in today’s Athletic (subscription required - but honestly if you’re not paying for this content right now you should have your internet shut off).  Basically comes down to a completely different approach to winning games (vs. championships).  Lombardi is a Brady confidant - you wonder if TB12 fed him some of this - but it strikes me as a correct assessment of the problem.

 

“The best example of this vast difference occurred last Monday night against the Rams. The Bucs had the ball at their 41-yard line, with slightly over two minutes left in the first half, with the game tied at 14. The Bucs faced a third-and-5, on which Brady completed a short pass to Antonio Brown for the first down and the two-minute warning. The Bucs had the ball at midfield, seemingly in control of the half. Coming out of the two-minute warning, Brady philosophically knows he has two objectives. The first would be to score either a touchdown or a field goal.  And the second is to not allow the Rams to get the ball back with much time, as they would get the ball to start the second half. Brady has been schooled over the last 19 years on the importance of winning the middle eight (the last four minutes of the first half and first four of the second half).”

 

 

Very interesting and not real surprising.  
 

They were never a good fit philosophically and I think bringing in all of Brady’s old teammates (Gronk,/Brown) add to the struggle.

 

They tend to fit what Brady does well - whereas Mike Evans is not that style receiver.  He is down the sideline outside the hash receiver.

 

I hope they fail together for another little bit.

[PromoTheRobot]

It's not that complicated. You have a massive ego QB surrounded with individual if not aging talents, but they are not a cohesive team. No coach was going to reel in Tawmmy because he runs the team. (See the personnel moves made because he wanted them: Gronk,  Brown.) Tom left New England so he could prove he's a champion without Belichick. The problem is he physically can't do the job anymore and expects everyone else to carry him.

Edited December 2, 2020 by PromoTheRobot

[TheFunPolice]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

It's not that complicated. You have a massive ego QB surrounded with individual if not aging talents, but they are not a cohesive team. No coach was going to reel in Tawmmy because he runs the team. (See the personnel moves made because he wanted them: Gronk,  Brown.) Tom left New England so he could prove he's a champion without Belichick. The problem is he physically can't do the job anymore and expects everyone else to carry him.

 

 

Yup.

 

All the talk of him being different is all crap. 

 

Belichick was the ONE coach who could keep him in line. Brady needed Bill or he would have had Rogers career: lots of stats and a supermodel girlfriend/wife, but not 6 rings.

 

Put Peyton Manning on NE for his whole career and you get 5-6 rings, imo. 

[QLBillsFan]

I wonder how many more media can continue to fawn over Tommy to gain the access he parses out sparingly. He apparently had options other than the Bucs. If he had philosophical differences with Arians he could have not taken the 25-30$M. Lombardi never had much good to say about the Bills at every turn. I would take his Tommy excuses with a grain of salt. 

[WotAGuy]

The author lost me when he described Brady throwing two incompletions and a 1 yard completion and the Rams taking the ball and kicking a field goal to end the half - and basically says it’s Ariens’ fault. Huh??

[Thurman#1]

35 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

I wonder how many more media can continue to fawn over Tommy to gain the access he parses out sparingly. He apparently had options other than the Bucs. If he had philosophical differences with Arians he could have not taken the 25-30$M. Lombardi never had much good to say about the Bills at every turn. I would take his Tommy excuses with a grain of salt. 

 

 

He didn't know that the philosophical differences would prove such a big deal. Nor did Arians. Neither guy had been in this situation before, so they didn't know that working with a guy with philosophies that turn out to align so poorly would cause problems.

 

And Lombardi isn't excusing either of the guys, or blaming either guy. He's simply saying they don't work well together. IMO, having read the whole article, he made his case.

 

 

 

OP, thanks for posting it. I subscribe but look pretty much only at the Bills content.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

 

2 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

The author lost me when he described Brady throwing two incompletions and a 1 yard completion and the Rams taking the ball and kicking a field goal to end the half - and basically says it’s Ariens’ fault. Huh??

 

 

It is Arians' fault. Even if they had called Brady-type plays which had been unsuccessful as the Arians plays were, they would have burned the clock. The Bucs wouldn't have scored but they would have greatly lowered the chances of the opponents scoring. The Brady plays - a run or a short high-percentage pass on first down in this case - would have raised the possibility of a first down there as well. Arians' philosophy is that we'll score enough to make up for it, but if they don't - and they didn't - he's put the team in a bad situation.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Tom “if you want to out work me you will have to give up your life”

 

Bruce "No risk-it, no biscuit,"

[QLBillsFan]

43 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

I wonder how many more media can continue to fawn over Tommy to gain the access he parses out sparingly. He apparently had options other than the Bucs. If he had philosophical differences with Arians he could have not taken the 25-30$M. Lombardi never had much good to say about the Bills at every turn. I would take his Tommy excuses with a grain of salt. 

Fair enough. Just seems to be a lot of it’s not Brady’s fault. As GOAT I get he’s got some room. Won’t debate on that. 
 

But his GM hat brought in Gronk and AB. At some point he’s got to deliver with all that talent or take some ownership. His boorish meltdown on teammates plays much better in NE. If he wins nobody will do anything but laud him. If he loses it some one else’s fault. By the way IMO he is the best QB ever and it’s not close. 

[Punching Bag]

My favorite part showing Tainted T*m has a lot less value away from Cheaterzille.

Quote

If this partnership isn’t sustainable, what move might put the Bucs in the best position to draft and sign the young players who will help them win in the future? Do they continue with a 68-year-old coach and forgo a $25 million dollar investment in Brady next season? Or do they remove Arians, costing them significant money (although not $25 million), and hire a Brady-friendly coach for next year, with the emphasis on finding his eventual replacement?

 

[machine gun kelly]

Living here, I don’t know what to believe.  When interviewed Arians emphatically states Brady is choosing his plays he likes and they call them in the game.  That is diametrically opposed to Arians historically liking a QB who throws downfield, whereas Brady has made a name for himself throwing short, and accurate passes.  Until lately, I thought. Brady was doing fine, just getting in sync with his receivers which was expected in the beginning of the season.  He’s just so inaccurate downfield, yet they keep trying it.

 

I love the Bills, and like the Bucs, but for someone who wanted this to work for the Bucs, it just doesn’t look like it’s working.  They needed that Rams game.

[Freddie's Dead]

Awfully hard to win without deflated footballs and tapes of another team's signals and plays.

[WotAGuy]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

It is Arians' fault. Even if they had called Brady-type plays which had been unsuccessful as the Arians plays were, they would have burned the clock. The Bucs wouldn't have scored but they would have greatly lowered the chances of the opponents scoring. The Brady plays - a run or a short high-percentage pass on first down in this case - would have raised the possibility of a first down there as well. Arians' philosophy is that we'll score enough to make up for it, but if they don't - and they didn't - he's put the team in a bad situation.

Whenever a play doesn’t work, it’s the coach’s fault. Right.

Brady sucked in that game. Period. 

[Rochesterfan]

7 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

The author lost me when he described Brady throwing two incompletions and a 1 yard completion and the Rams taking the ball and kicking a field goal to end the half - and basically says it’s Ariens’ fault. Huh??

 

I think they blame Arians for the sequence of plays called not  the result of the calls.

 

In NE - the calls right after the 2 minute warning would have gone run/short pass (like the 1 yarder to Brown) to get the clock moving.  That forces the Rams to decide on a strategy call a time out or not.  That then sets up the rest of that drive.  If the Rams call timeout - then NE gets more aggressive and if they let the clock run down then NE will slow play until you get under a minute.

 

NE would attack, but most plays would be shorter, high percentage plays to keep the clock moving until it gets under a minute where then you start to attack mid level and sidelines.

 

Arians attacked down the field with a low percentage throw for Brady and put them behind the sticks.  One thing Brady has struggled with (just like most other QBs) is when you get behind the sticks (2nd and 3rd and long) and you get pressure it makes it harder to be successful.  That first down deep pass made it harder for Brady to get the First Down and stopped the clock.

 

In the end Brady did not execute the plays, but the choice of plays did not fit the wheelhouse (or the philosophy) of Brady.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, WotAGuy said:

Whenever a play doesn’t work, it’s the coach’s fault. Right.

Brady sucked in that game. Period. 

 

 

That whooshing sound? It was the point shooting by while you were typing.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Living here, I don’t know what to believe.  When interviewed Arians emphatically states Brady is choosing his plays he likes and they call them in the game.  That is diametrically opposed to Arians historically liking a QB who throws downfield, whereas Brady has made a name for himself throwing short, and accurate passes.  Until lately, I thought. Brady was doing fine, just getting in sync with his receivers which was expected in the beginning of the season.  He’s just so inaccurate downfield, yet they keep trying it.

 

I love the Bills, and like the Bucs, but for someone who wanted this to work for the Bucs, it just doesn’t look like it’s working.  They needed that Rams game.

 

 

The thing about him choosing the plays he likes is about constructing the playbook. It's still Arians making the calls and deciding when all of these plays they like get called.

 

Brady doesn't mind throwing long sometimes. But when ... that's the rub. Arians calls them a lot more than Brady likes, and at times when Brady would rather burn clock and play careful.

 

Again, he didn't say this was all Arians' fault. He said they can't work together, and that from Brady"s perspective those were the wrong calls.

[Rochesterfan]

4 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Living here, I don’t know what to believe.  When interviewed Arians emphatically states Brady is choosing his plays he likes and they call them in the game.  That is diametrically opposed to Arians historically liking a QB who throws downfield, whereas Brady has made a name for himself throwing short, and accurate passes.  Until lately, I thought. Brady was doing fine, just getting in sync with his receivers which was expected in the beginning of the season.  He’s just so inaccurate downfield, yet they keep trying it.

 

I love the Bills, and like the Bucs, but for someone who wanted this to work for the Bucs, it just doesn’t look like it’s working.  They needed that Rams game.

 

That is the one piece of the article I did not like or maybe “get” is a better phrasing.  They state that the two can not really work together because at both of their ages and what they have done - they are not changing.  I don’t really see it that way - I think both guys have adapted at least to a degree. I think Arians gives Brady more say in what to run than any QB he has worked with (it was a big issue in Pittsburgh) and I think Brady is holding the ball longer and trying (sometimes successfully) to throw downfield and outside the numbers more.  I actually think both guys are moving toward the middle - I am just not sure that is a good fit for the team.

 

What I wish (and I think Coach Tuesday alluded to this) is to understand what drove this article.  Is this Brady’s team reaching out and pushing this idea and there is something actually there - a rift/disagreement that is starting to boil over as Brady gets pile-driven into the turf - time and again.  Or is this a guy that knows Brady well and just speculating and really there is little to this long term. 
 

I don’t expect the Bucs to change either spot in the off-season unless they feel they are going to lose someone they want to promote long term.  I think this is a 2 year trial and the results are still TBD.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

That is the one piece of the article I did not like or maybe “get” is a better phrasing.  They state that the two can not really work together because at both of their ages and what they have done - they are not changing.  I don’t really see it that way - I think both guys have adapted at least to a degree. I think Arians gives Brady more say in what to run than any QB he has worked with (it was a big issue in Pittsburgh) and I think Brady is holding the ball longer and trying (sometimes successfully) to throw downfield and outside the numbers more.  I actually think both guys are moving toward the middle - I am just not sure that is a good fit for the team.

 

What I wish (and I think Coach Tuesday alluded to this) is to understand what drove this article.  Is this Brady’s team reaching out and pushing this idea and there is something actually there - a rift/disagreement that is starting to boil over as Brady gets pile-driven into the turf - time and again.  Or is this a guy that knows Brady well and just speculating and really there is little to this long term. 
 

I don’t expect the Bucs to change either spot in the off-season unless they feel they are going to lose someone they want to promote long term.  I think this is a 2 year trial and the results are still TBD.

 

 

Agreed that both guys are moving to the middle. But (at least Lombardi thinks that ...) there are certain parts of how they each work that they can't surrender on, that can't be compromised, and that these incongruent world views won't allow them to work together successfully.

 

I think he's got an interesting point. Maybe they can work it out. But maybe not.