Lions fire HC Matt Patricia and GM Bob Quinn

[Captain Hindsight]

11 hours ago, MJS said:

And yet... Doug Marine still has a job. I have to conclude that their ownership and front office just don't care.

As with Gase, I think ownership has decided they are going to move on. But theres not much point in getting the team motivated for a meaningless week 16 win. Lose out and get your QB

[Doc]

8 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Id be shocked.  I dont think even they are this disfunctional.  Get yourself a new coach and GM to pick THEIR qb at #1, and do NOT let Gase get within 5miles of him.  BUTTTTTTTT i hope youre right

 

Wait, I thought their GM was some wunderkind that some Bills fans wished we had?

 

7 hours ago, Mango said:

If I were an NFL owner I would need to see a lot more from Daboll at the moment. The offense is drastically improved this year, but just from a results stand point this is an anomaly in his career production. A second year showing the same consistency in passing attack and revamping the run game in the offseason, and I would be willing to pull the trigger. 

 

Which is why I said that coaches need players.  Look at his offensive rosters from 2011 with the Dols and 2012 with the Chefs. 

 

Now is Daboll a good coach?  I can't say for sure.  But I wouldn't go looking to replace him unless he leaves.

[YoloinOhio]

Lol

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

Lol Harbaugh at 7-1 ... lions fans who are also UM fans would riot I imagine that they can’t get rid of him

 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[Royale with Cheese]

12 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Lol Harbaugh at 7-1 ... lions fans who are also UM fans would riot I imagine that they can’t get rid of him

 

 

Lol as well to Saban.

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Lol as well to Saban.

Most of those names make no sense - Dabo? Notice no Daboll on the list

[Coffeesforclosers]

Given the Ford family's  track record,  I'm looking forward to new Lions HC Josh McDaniels.  That should keep Detroit the clown car franchise of the NFL. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Most of those names make no sense - Dabo? Notice no Daboll on the list

Do you think Dabo ever makes the jump?

[YoloinOhio]

23 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Do you think Dabo ever makes the jump?

I don’t.

[DCbillsfan]

19 hours ago, aristocrat said:

What took so long?

Bingo!!

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

O'Brien.  Henry Ford was reputed to be a miserable SOB, no reason not to carry on the Ford tradition. 😁

[CBennett]

lol "the patriot's way" sounds like a lot of people(aka players) think it sucks...pretty damning that players were saving expensive Champagne for the end of the year when they were done and didnt have to play anymore to pop the cork...They really hated this guy and he never earned their respect..

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Lol

 

 

 

I saw this.  Ooooh, Lions fans ....that's Harsh!

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/lions-fans-donate-to-deshaun-watson-s-charity-in-droves-after-texans-win?campaign=Twitter_atn

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 hours ago, FireChans said:

Numbers are objective.

 

Horse *****.

 

I say this as a lifelong numbers geek who spent a professional life analyzing numbers and presenting/interpreting data

 

Numbers are never meaningful in isolation.  They're always viewed and used in a context.  Pulling them out of context and throwing them around is bullgaffle, not objectivity.  Example: when someone starts to compare today's QB passing numbers to a 1980s era QB passing numbers, they're "objectively, better" but it's correctly pointed out that the passing game was different then, with different rules about roughing the passer and hitting defenseless players (receivers).

 

11 minutes ago, CBennett said:

lol "the patriot's way" sounds like a lot of people(aka players) think it sucks...pretty damning that players were saving expensive Champagne for the end of the year when they were done and didnt have to play anymore to pop the cork...They really hated this guy and he never earned their respect..

 

I didn't hear this.  Would like to hear more, got a reference?

 

[CBennett]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Horse *****.

 

I say this as a lifelong numbers geek who spent a professional life analyzing numbers and presenting/interpreting data

 

Numbers are never meaningful in isolation.  They're always viewed and used in a context.  Pulling them out of context and throwing them around is bullgaffle.

 

I didn't hear this.  Would like to hear more, got a reference?

 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/nfl-lions-reportedly-celebrated-away-matt-patricia-2018-mimosa-party-cam-newton-dance-215302941.html

It was the last day of 2018 and the NFL regular season was finished. A group of 10 to 15 Detroit Lions players broke out the mimosas.

Except this wasn’t a celebration of playoffs. The Lions disappointingly went 6-10 that season. It was, rather, a “cheers” to being away from head coach Matt Patricia at least temporarily.

The anecdote is detailed by the Bleacher Report’s Kalyn Kahler in a piece about Patricia’s attempt to bring “The Patriot Way” to Detroit. The Lions (3-5) hired Patricia ahead of the 2018 season and have gone 12-27-1 since then.

The mimosas, a culminating moment to various player stories of how Patricia made them unhappy or uncomfortable, were definitely not for winning.

Lions’ mimosa party about leaving Patricia

An unnamed player had a bottle of Champagne in his locker gifted to him by an agent for Christmas. He had been waiting for the right time to open it, and saying goodbye to Patricia warranted the pop.

Before the final team meeting on clean-out day, the 10-15 players made mimosas. Via Bleacher Report:

They chilled and sipped out of Solo cups, finally relaxing after a season of long practices, tough conditioning and routinely getting cussed at by their head coach, who had a long list of rules that a former player described as taking the fun out of the game. “It was a free-for-all,” he says. The stifling Patriot Way experience had been a culture shock many veteran players were elated to be done with.

“Didn't nobody care at that point,” says a former offensive player. “Everybody was glad to be out of the building and done.”

It wasn’t about another single-digit win season for the Lions players. Patricia, a disciple of New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick, had a communication style that didn’t sit well with players. Part of the issue was the transition from a “player’s-coach type” in Jim Caldwell to more of a strict, micromanaged approach.

 

 

 

https://fansided.com/2020/11/14/lions-players-seem-really-hate-matt-patricia/

Edited November 29, 2020 by CBennett

[YoloinOhio]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Horse *****.

 

I say this as a lifelong numbers geek who spent a professional life analyzing numbers and presenting/interpreting data

 

Numbers are never meaningful in isolation.  They're always viewed and used in a context.  Pulling them out of context and throwing them around is bullgaffle, not objectivity.  Example: when someone starts to compare today's QB passing numbers to a 1980s era QB passing numbers, they're "objectively, better" but it's correctly pointed out that the passing game was different then, with different rules about roughing the passer and hitting defenseless players (receivers).

 

 

I didn't hear this.  Would like to hear more, got a reference?

 

It’s in the “When the Patriot Way goes wrong” thread... deep dive into the Patricia administration on bleacher report. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, CBennett said:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/nfl-lions-reportedly-celebrated-away-matt-patricia-2018-mimosa-party-cam-newton-dance-215302941.html

 

 

Interesting.  There was apparently a similar "vibe" about McDaniels taking over the Broncos in 2009.  They had been a 9-7, 7-9, 8-8 team the 3 years previous.

McDaniels blew the place up and apparently there was a feeling that the baby went out with the bathwater at times.

 

It actually must be a tough challenge for a coach to take over a mediocre team vs. a losing team.

 

On the one hand, the former is seen as a team that just needs a few more pieces to take the next step, so there's bound to be resistance to doing things differently.

On the other hand, it's aptly said sometimes "Good is the Enemy of Great" and maybe to make that step, it's necessary to dig deep and re-build the foundation.

 

But clearly one aspect in an NFL locker room is the coach has to get the players to buy in and believe in whatever changes he needs to make.  It sounds as though Patricia (like McDaniels in Denver) did not achieve that.

 

It does say:

Since that locker room mimosa party, Patricia has made a genuine effort to relate to his players better and evolve his coaching style in light of all that went wrong his rookie year. But it doesn't seem to be making any difference on the field.

 

Give credit to McDermott, he understood that to make an organizational change, he needed to get enough veterans who would "buy in" in each position room and have position coaches who could relate to the players.  And he hasn't blinked about making changes when he felt he needed to.

 

[MrSarcasm]

Patricia really had it easy over his coaching tenure with the Lions. 

 

1) He inherited an above average offense and good QB

2) Good players on D

3) Pretty patient ownership

 

Shows how bad he is/was as a coach.

Every area of that team got worse under his control. 

[CBennett]

Just now, MrSarcasm said:

Patricia really had it easy over his coaching tenure with the Lions. 

 

1) He inherited an above average offense and good QB

2) Good players on D

3) Pretty patient ownership

 

Shows how bad he is/was as a coach.

Every area of that team got worse under his control. 

I think he thought he could walk in flash a SB ring and garner respect....players are only "falling for" the "Patriot way" if they have success under it....you come in like that dont do a single thing other than hey we won SB where I came from and we did it this way..type crap and thats all you have...then you DONT have the success...you lost the team/locker room.

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Horse *****.

 

I say this as a lifelong numbers geek who spent a professional life analyzing numbers and presenting/interpreting data

 

Numbers are never meaningful in isolation.  They're always viewed and used in a context.  Pulling them out of context and throwing them around is bullgaffle, not objectivity.  Example: when someone starts to compare today's QB passing numbers to a 1980s era QB passing numbers, they're "objectively, better" but it's correctly pointed out that the passing game was different then, with different rules about roughing the passer and hitting defenseless players (receivers).

 

I didn't hear this.  Would like to hear more, got a reference?

Agreed. I also work with data and I have come to the realization that you can use data and numbers to pretty much say anything you want. Data sets get sliced and diced and "cleaned" (or just outright ignored) until results are "statistically significant". And football stats are no different.