Kenny Stills to be cut

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

packers maybe?

[Putin]

Do we know if anyone put a claim on him and who ?? 

[Simon Says]

On 11/27/2020 at 2:57 PM, HappyDays said:

I believe he goes on waivers so he won't make it to us. But I also don't know what value he'd have here. He's been out with an injury the past 2 games so I don't even know if he could fill in for John Brown in the short term. I don't see a fit for him.

I don't think he has to go on waivers,he is a veteran with enough service time to become a free agent 

[Rochesterfan]

2 minutes ago, Georgie said:

I don't think he has to go on waivers,he is a veteran with enough service time to become a free agent 

 

Nope - as has been stated multiple times in this thread - after the trade deadline every player released must clear waivers.  
 

 

[ganesh]

10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

They did step it up among some of the bigger FAs last offseason, but why wouldn't you? By the time the season started it was beginning to seem likely that COVID was going to cause problems with offseason get-togethers. It's not a mistake that most of those Carolina pickups this year were on defense. In a season that looked like it might not have a traditional offseason, why wouldn't you concentrate on guys who had already played in your system and wouldn't be hurt as badly by missed offseason activities?

I guess the only question on  "COVID" judgement would be - should they have resigned Lawson and  Jordan Phillips  instead of paying lesser money to Addison and Butler ?

[JGMcD2]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

So you are saying that when choosing among fringe roster players with 3 years or less of NFL experience that the 4th year Bills GM and HC are choosing less Carolina players?   

 

Well I guess you've proven that they don't have an inordinate amount of focus on players that were with them in Carolina.

 

They were on more of their former Carolina players than ever this past offseason.

 

And of the 20 or so former Carolina free agents they've tried since coming to Buffalo only Daryl Williams and Dean Marlowe have proven worth the investment so far.

 

Personally I am not a huge detractor of trying to collect players that are familiar with their system...........it makes sense on the surface but it hasn't been a very lucrative endeavor trying to tap into their old Carolina pipeline.

I’ve gone over this in previous threads... there’s a humongous difference between impact signings and depth/camp signings. 
 

From years 1-3 there are only 2 players in the organization that were acquired by the Bills with ties to the Panthers still in the organization. Star and Marlowe (who was released and brought back). 
 

The only long term signing was Star.. the rest were depth. 
 

Yes, this year they heavily targeted former Panthers players, but throwing a large number like 20 out there (really actually not that large considering the turnover we’ve had since 2017, we only gave 6 players from 2017 still in the organization.. and the number of players that come into any organization during TC... there have been ~360 players on a Bills roster since 2017) and saying players weren’t worth the investment is kind of lazy... I mean was Kaelin Clay really a bad investment?
 

Guys like Ryan Davis, Joe Webb, Leonard Johnson, LJ McCray, Mike Tolbert, Philly Brown, Robert Thomas, Jeremiah Siles, Derek Anderson, Kurt Coleman, Kaelin Clay. That’s 12/20 former Panthers that have been brought in... I mean if people honestly thought those guys were brought in to be anything more than depth it’s just a testament to fans ability to differentiate player roles.

 

Using that 360 number above, which is ironically probably low (90 preseason roster x 4 seasons) and the 20 Panthers players... 5% of the players that Beane and McDermott have brought in are former Panthers... 

Edited November 29, 2020 by JGMcD2

[Richard Noggin]

12 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

It was said in jest.... I don't think it's any secret these guys prefer ex Carolina Panthers as that is where they spent just about all of their cap this past offseason(outside of the Diggs trade which was a necessity). 

 

 

So the trade for Diggs was an agreed-upon necessity? That sure does seem to undercut its brilliance and utility, no? Plenty of pundits criticized the bold move, and still others dismissed it.

 

It's almost like phrasing it that way you did above was a lame way to undersell Beane's aggressive and effective trade. (A truly franchise-altering move.) But you wouldn't have a long, recorded history of underselling Buffalo's wins while overplaying its losses, would you?

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

I’ve gone over this in previous threads... there’s a humongous difference between impact signings and depth/camp signings. 
 

From years 1-3 there are only 2 players in the organization that were acquired by the Bills with ties to the Panthers still in the organization. Star and Marlowe (who was released and brought back). 
 

The only long term signing was Star.. the rest were depth. 
 

Yes, this year they heavily targeted former Panthers players, but throwing a large number like 20 out there (really actually not that large considering the turnover we’ve had since 2017, we only gave 6 players from 2017 still in the organization.. and the number of players that come into any organization during TC... there have been ~360 players on a Bills roster since 2017) and saying players weren’t worth the investment is kind of lazy... I mean was Kaelin Clay really a bad investment?
 

Guys like Ryan Davis, Joe Webb, Leonard Johnson, LJ McCray, Mike Tolbert, Philly Brown, Robert Thomas, Jeremiah Siles, Derek Anderson, Kurt Coleman, Kaelin Clay. That’s 12/20 former Panthers that have been brought in... I mean if people honestly thought those guys were brought in to be anything more than depth it’s just a testament to fans ability to differentiate player roles.

 

Using that 360 number above, which is ironically probably low (90 preseason roster x 4 seasons) and the 20 Panthers players... 5% of the players that Beane and McDermott have brought in are former Panthers... 

 

 

1) Now Kelvin Benjamin wasn't even acquired?   Let alone traded for and paid $8.5M for that abysmal 2018 partial season?

 

2) You are counting some of the same players multiple times in your "360 players" math.   Jordan Poyer isn't a different player every year........Shaq was with McD for 3 years he doesn't count 3 times.

 

3) Bad counting / bad counting = 5%(not really, even that was wrong)

 

Look.......you protest too much...........McBeane have taken shots on A LOT of former Carolina Panthers..........it's a fact.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

So the trade for Diggs was an agreed-upon necessity? That sure does seem to undercut its brilliance and utility, no? Plenty of pundits criticized the bold move, and still others dismissed it.

 

It's almost like phrasing it that way you did above was a lame way to undersell Beane's aggressive and effective trade. (A truly franchise-altering move.) But you wouldn't have a long, recorded history of underselling Buffalo's wins while overplaying its losses, would you?

 

 

They had been trying to acquire a WR1 for two years...........they tried to swing deals for Antonio Brown and AJ Green as well.............yeah it was an absolute necessity to give their young QB that kind of player.    And I don't remember a lot of criticism of the move at all..........just that they paid a lot more than Arizona paid for Hopkins.

 

"A truly franchise altering move"?   Bryce Paup actually won the NFL Defensive Player of the Year in his first year with Buffalo........was that "franchise altering"?

 

Very few personnel decisions are.........and they are almost exclusively QB's. 

[Locomark]

On 11/27/2020 at 2:06 PM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

If they did it likely means Brown is going to IR

Davis has a big opportunity. 

Let’s just say the last few times Brown was out of the lineup our offense sputtered and teams dared us to throw deep. Davis needs to help us get deep because they will 100% roll all deep coverage to Diggs now so he must win in immediate too long yardage. 

[JMF2006]

22 hours ago, Buddo said:

 

I didn't know he played with Bill Cosby.....;)

 

And you can't have heard his first solo album.

 

Cosby.....Crosby who cares? the guy is irrelevant   

 

(I think he said the same thing when Eddie Van Halen died)

 

Sorry never did hear it they were not my style(I think Crosby said that too  

Edited November 29, 2020 by JMF2006

[JGMcD2]

11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

1) Now Kelvin Benjamin wasn't even acquired?   Let alone traded for and paid $8.5M for that abysmal 2018 partial season?

 

2) You are counting some of the same players multiple times in your "360 players" math.   Jordan Poyer isn't a different player every year........Shaq was with McD for 3 years he doesn't count 3 times.

 

3) Bad counting / bad counting = 5%(not really, even that was wrong)

 

Look.......you protest too much...........McBeane have taken shots on A LOT of former Carolina Panthers..........it's a fact.

 

1) Sweetheart... I listed 12/20 that were depth type players... didn’t get into Kelvin Benjamin but he was included. 
 

2) The 360 number was perfectly fine considering that numerous players are released and added during training camp. If you want to spend the time to find the exact number, I’ll guarantee you it falls right around 360. I literally said ~360... that little squiggly thing means about...
 

3) Bad reading comprehension isn’t my issue. Math wasn’t bad, it was an estimate, I never gave a hard number. How was 20/360 wrong? What you want 5.5%, there I’ll give it to you. 
 

4) You protest too much... you protest basically everything. You harp on the same talking points on every thread. I’m not protesting the fact that they’ve brought in Panthers, I’m protesting the idiotic assertion that all of them were expected impact players and/or didn’t live up to their expectations. I mean if the 12 depth players didn’t live up to their roughly minimum salary expectations to fill out the back end of the roster then I guess you have a case. 

 

EDIT: Because I know you won't do it, I just went through the numbers.

 

340 unique players on the Bills roster from the start of 2017 (hey not bad for me guessing 360!)

 

22 unique former Carolina Panthers players on the Bills roster from the start of 2017 (I forgot about Andre Smith and Daryl Worley in my previous post, so I was short 2 players)

 

22/340 = 6.5% of players in the Bills organization since 2017 that are former Carolina Panthers.

 

My rough estimations were off by about 1%... a 1% error is really freaking good when you're just estimating...you caught me with my bad math.

 

Round of applause.

Edited November 29, 2020 by JGMcD2

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Umm... ok then...  where did stills end up? 

[HOUSE]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Umm... ok then...  where did stills end up? 

 

He ended up here on TBD where nothing can possibly happen......3rd page by weds

[Doc]

14 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Umm... ok then...  where did stills end up? 

 

Has he even been released? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Has he even been released? 

Is this a personal question beyond the football thing that happened to him Friday? 

[Doc]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Is this a personal question beyond the football thing that happened to him Friday? 

 

LOL!  No, didn't see he was actually released.

[RyanC883]

dude seems like a malcontent and if he can't get it done playing with Fuller and Watson, I’m not sure how talented he is.  

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

1) Sweetheart... I listed 12/20 that were depth type players... didn’t get into Kelvin Benjamin but he was included. 
 

2) The 360 number was perfectly fine considering that numerous players are released and added during training camp. If you want to spend the time to find the exact number, I’ll guarantee you it falls right around 360. I literally said ~360... that little squiggly thing means about...
 

3) Bad reading comprehension isn’t my issue. Math wasn’t bad, it was an estimate, I never gave a hard number. How was 20/360 wrong? What you want 5.5%, there I’ll give it to you. 
 

4) You protest too much... you protest basically everything. You harp on the same talking points on every thread. I’m not protesting the fact that they’ve brought in Panthers, I’m protesting the idiotic assertion that all of them were expected impact players and/or didn’t live up to their expectations. I mean if the 12 depth players didn’t live up to their roughly minimum salary expectations to fill out the back end of the roster then I guess you have a case. 

 

EDIT: Because I know you won't do it, I just went through the numbers.

 

340 unique players on the Bills roster from the start of 2017 (hey not bad for me guessing 360!)

 

22 unique former Carolina Panthers players on the Bills roster from the start of 2017 (I forgot about Andre Smith and Daryl Worley in my previous post, so I was short 2 players)

 

22/340 = 6.5% of players in the Bills organization since 2017 that are former Carolina Panthers.

 

My rough estimations were off by about 1%... a 1% error is really freaking good when you're just estimating...you caught me with my bad math.

 

Round of applause.

 

 

First of all what does your baloney 6.5% number actually mean?

 

You have no idea because you don't know how it compares to other teams.

 

What if no other team had even more than 2% of their "unique players" come from a "same NFL organization" over that period?

 

 Would the fact that the Bills had "325% more" same team pickups mean anything?

 

With 31 other NFL teams + 450 college programs(130 in division 1 alone) and multiple other pro football leagues you are talking about well over 500 potential draw points..........so it's possible that 6.5% is a sky high figure using that data.

 

Point is.......you have created ZERO perspective with your arbitrarily created data.

 

Start with a relevant field.............like the amount of players McBeane has signed or traded for with at least one year of NFL experience in that 4 year period.

 

How many of those were with McBeane in Carolina?  

 

Players who were drafted by the team each year or signed as UDFA's or who had kicked around on practice squads in the NFL or came from the CFL etc.. but never earned an actual season of NFL experience as defined by the CBA are irrelevant to the conversation.........every team drafts and signs a bunch of new to the league players every year.........including players that have had no opportunity to play with McBeane in the pros just waters down your data.

 

In their 4th offseason since leaving Carolina they targeted Greg Olsen, AJ Klein, Daryl Williams and Mario Addison........they signed 3 and they all were expected to compete for starting jobs.   Trying to downplay their inordinate interest in players who they worked with is just ignorant.    Was Andy Reid still signing this many players from Philly 4 years in at KC?  No.   It's unusual.  

[JGMcD2]

42 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

First of all what does your baloney 6.5% number actually mean?

 

You have no idea because you don't know how it compares to other teams.

 

What if no other team had even more than 2% of their "unique players" come from a "same NFL organization" over that period?

 

 Would the fact that the Bills had "325% more" same team pickups mean anything?

 

With 31 other NFL teams + 450 college programs(130 in division 1 alone) and multiple other pro football leagues you are talking about well over 500 potential draw points..........so it's possible that 6.5% is a sky high figure using that data.

 

Point is.......you have created ZERO perspective with your arbitrarily created data.

 

Start with a relevant field.............like the amount of players McBeane has signed or traded for with at least one year of NFL experience in that 4 year period.

 

How many of those were with McBeane in Carolina?  

 

Players who were drafted by the team each year or signed as UDFA's or who had kicked around on practice squads in the NFL or came from the CFL etc.. but never earned an actual season of NFL experience as defined by the CBA are irrelevant to the conversation.........every team drafts and signs a bunch of new to the league players every year.........including players that have had no opportunity to play with McBeane in the pros just waters down your data.

 

In their 4th offseason since leaving Carolina they targeted Greg Olsen, AJ Klein, Daryl Williams and Mario Addison........they signed 3 and they all were expected to compete for starting jobs.   Trying to downplay their inordinate interest in players who they worked with is just ignorant.    Was Andy Reid still signing this many players from Philly 4 years in at KC?  No.   It's unusual.  

Well now my number is baloney... I would have at least appreciated you acknowledging that my math was good... keep moving the goalposts though...  
 

How is the data arbitrary? It’s all players brought into the organization, showing the percentage of former Panthers. When you recognize that players play for teams and move around, it’s really not a major issue. I know off the top of my head we have like 4 former Chiefs on the roster right now, a few Browns, some Jets. Do you really think it’s out of the realm of possibility that we’ve had 20 former Chiefs, Browns, Eagles, Seahawks through here in 4 years? 

 

Glad you just pivoted off of your first argument which was just off-base. Now you’ve narrowed down to 3 players expected to compete for starting positions and not the entire group of 22, most of which were entirely depth. I’m not downplaying their interest in players they’ve worked with, at all, I’m pointing out saying because they’ve targeted a bunch of Panthers (most of which depth) doesn’t mean that ALL of them didn’t pan out and it was a catastrophe like many here believe. 
 

I don’t understand why it’s a major issue that they brought in the best FA defensive end when we needed a pass rusher, signed Williams for $2.5M to compete for an o-line job and tossed Klein (coming from the Saints) money to be the 3rd LB? Can toss in Star too. So 4 starters in 4 years came from Carolina? How’s that for narrowing it down to the relevant field? 

I’ll gladly take some time to look into it, but the points remains that YOU don’t actually know either yet you’re making assumptions... you’re basing it off of the fact that the media points out we have former Panthers and they mention it from time to time.