When the Patriot Way goes wrong

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

His downfall was that he was too power hungry and it cost him the only thing he was good at, HC. At one point he was the HC, OC and GM because he couldn’t work with anyone well enough to have anyone else in those roles than himself. That’s how you end up with a 4 win team with no HC or GM or 1st or 2nd rd pick and a crumbling roster around a great young QB. 

 

For sure. But compared to McDaniels and Mangini and Patricia and dear old Romeo it has to be said that O'Brien had success as an NFL Head Coach. He is the most successful member of the Belichick tree to this point by far. 

[GunnerBill]

17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

When I watch the Dolphins play, they just strike me as a well-coached, well-prepared football team.

 

Which is not how Detroit or the Giants strike me.

 

Think that is a bit harsh on the Giants. They have improved week to week and played hard and competitive in every game. I don't know if Joe Judge will or won't be a success there long term but the biggest issue with the Giants is the GM. They are undertalented at so many spots. 

 

It is true of Detroit and has been since day 1 of Patricia IMO. He and Bob Quinn have been a pretty bad combo in every way. They have built a team with no identity.

[foreboding]

On 11/27/2020 at 7:38 AM, Inigo Montoya said:

I think the lack of success from the Belichick coaching tree, especially when compared to the Parcells and Andy Reid trees, is because when you are an assistant coach in New England, Bill micro-manages everything. Belichick doesn't develop coaches, he simply instructs them on how to do things his way.  When his coaches finally get a head coaching gig and leave New England they suffer from that lack of personal growth and development.  Most of these guys go off to another team and try to be Bill Belichick, like Matt Patricia is doing, and it just doesn't work.  

 

The other thing these fledgling coaches don't have is the incredible good fortune to find a unicorn like Brady, a generational talent at QB who is also beta-male enough to tolerate the constant abuse of his head coach even after numerous championships and MVPs.  What Belichick did in New England is not reproducible elsewhere and I think the rest of the League is finally starting to figure that out.

 

 

Belichick is the Parcells tree.

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, foreboding said:

Belichick is the Parcells tree.

Tom Coughlin and Sean Payton too. The Parcells tree is arguably the greatest ever. He was a genius at hiring staffs.

Edited November 28, 2020 by dave mcbride

[Billy Claude]

If you count Cleveland Nick Saban, Kirk Ferentz, and Jim Swartz are all in the Bellichek tree.  If you take into account he was also GM there, you can also Ozzie Newsome,  Scott Pioli and Phil Savage also.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 11/27/2020 at 6:38 AM, Inigo Montoya said:

I think the lack of success from the Belichick coaching tree, especially when compared to the Parcells and Andy Reid trees, is because when you are an assistant coach in New England, Bill micro-manages everything. Belichick doesn't develop coaches, he simply instructs them on how to do things his way.  When his coaches finally get a head coaching gig and leave New England they suffer from that lack of personal growth and development.  Most of these guys go off to another team and try to be Bill Belichick, like Matt Patricia is doing, and it just doesn't work. 

 

Great post.  I will even add on: I saw hints in things that were said, Daboll's first year or so here, that sounded as though he was trying to replicate that pattern and micromanage his assistants.  He was asked about "self scouting" and said something like "I don't have time for that during the season".  I'm thinking "you have assistants?" and "that's what a guy says who is trying to do it all himself".  This season it was "we do our self-scouting regularly throughout the season, it's not just during the bye" and I'm thinking "now here is a guy who has learned something about how to delegate". 

 

I know I've heard other examples of Daboll pressers, I'm just not calling them to mind right now.  And when I did, it made me feel more hopeful and positive about Daboll's chances to excell.

 

Anyway I think you're on to something.  And all the success leads to guys who think they know how to run the show, but who don't know what they don't know.  Certainly McDaniels flamed out pretty spectacularly as HC with Denver then even more spectacularly as OC with the Rams.

[Manther]

On 11/27/2020 at 7:38 AM, Inigo Montoya said:

I think the lack of success from the Belichick coaching tree, especially when compared to the Parcells and Andy Reid trees, is because when you are an assistant coach in New England, Bill micro-manages everything. Belichick doesn't develop coaches, he simply instructs them on how to do things his way.  When his coaches finally get a head coaching gig and leave New England they suffer from that lack of personal growth and development.  Most of these guys go off to another team and try to be Bill Belichick, like Matt Patricia is doing, and it just doesn't work.  

 

The other thing these fledgling coaches don't have is the incredible good fortune to find a unicorn like Brady, a generational talent at QB who is also beta-male enough to tolerate the constant abuse of his head coach even after numerous championships and MVPs.  What Belichick did in New England is not reproducible elsewhere and I think the rest of the League is finally starting to figure that out.

 

 

Awesome!  Agreed!