Big Turk Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, SCBills said: I mean, plenty of NFL people believe Josh Allen is the best QB in the NFL at the moment - in terms of how he's playing. It's not so far off when you see how raw Allen was coming into the league, coupled with the rapid improvement he's been making into his now Year 3, whereas Mahomes is in Year 4 (with the luxury of sitting a year). Allen still has to prove it in the Playoffs, but if he does... I don't know why we'd sit here and act like Mahomes is the clear cut, better QB, with the clear cut, higher ceiling. I think Allen clearly has a higher ceiling...he is still way behind every other QB in terms of where they are from a coaching standpoint entering year 4. He is physically more gifted than Mahomes. He can do things Mahomes cannot. Mahomes may have a little more guile or sneakiness in his play but Allen has more physical gifts. That isn't to say Mahomes isn't physically gifted....clearly he very much is, but I don't even think he would claim to have the raw physical athleticism Allen possesses. And Allen is every bit as clutch as Mahomes is. Now he just has to do it in the playoffs to enter that discussion. 2 hours ago, SCBills said: This. Allen has one thing left to prove.. that he can do this in the postseason. Once he does, he's on Mahomes level.. and Allen has a higher ceiling. Pretty much where I am at. I think both players have really embraced the communities they are in and belong where they are. Edited December 21, 2020 by matter2003 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 If a straight trade for Allen/Mahomes were on the table, I wouldn’t be made if we pulled the trigger, and I wouldn’t be mad if we told KC to eat poo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Lombardi Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 On 11/21/2020 at 12:34 PM, Brianmoorman4jesus said: How many guys in the NFL would you trade Josh for? In a word, zero. Expressed as a number, 0. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 (edited) On 11/21/2020 at 10:34 AM, Brianmoorman4jesus said: All things considered, contract, age, fit etc How many guys in the NFL would you trade Josh for? Mahomes maybe? Even that isn’t a definite with his contract. It’s not to say that Josh Allen is the best player in the league. He might not even be the best player on the Bills. But all things considered, I’d say he’s borderline untouchable. When was the last time you could say that about a Bills player? It’s an incredible feeling. Who (right now) would you trade Josh Allen for straight up? Anybody? These are always fun articles in MLB -- basically, "what player is the most valuable commodity right now?" You're looking at excess value: (What The Player Would Be Worth As a True Unrestricted Free Agent Over the Next 5 or 10 Years) - (What We Can Expect to Pay Him to Keep Him With Our Team). And you've got a great point: Allen is still affordable for a couple years. I think we all expect him to sign a big extension, but even there the Bills will be giving Allen more for years 4/5 in exchange for less than they'd expect him to be worth on the open market. Kyler Murray? That's only a 1 year advantage in cost control, and he probably comes with a few more question marks right now given that he's not the prototypical size. Justin Herbert? Now that's an interesting one since there's 4 more years of cost control. Last month I would've said Joe Burrow too. 2 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: No one has a higher ceiling than Mahomes. pump the brakes. Well, I do like Josh, but really ... sloooow down a bit. If Mahomes stays reasonably healthy, he's clearly on a HOF trajectory. And people want to say that Josh has a "higher ceiling." I think the only ceiling higher is the GOAT. I hope that's what he becomes, but ... maybe win a playoff game first? Be an MVP candidate in more than one season? Edited December 21, 2020 by The Frankish Reich 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 On 11/21/2020 at 12:00 PM, Mango said: Straight up....? It would have to be another QB. Probably only Russ and Mahomes. Rodgers is better right now but probably doesn’t have a ton of time left. Rodgers and Wilson are way too old. Wilson is 32 years old already. 27 minutes ago, Mango said: If a straight trade for Allen/Mahomes were on the table, I wouldn’t be made if we pulled the trigger, and I wouldn’t be mad if we told KC to eat poo. I wouldnt be mad either but i cam say, imo. there aint NO way KC trades for Mahomes, at least not this year. Give his contract and another bad NFL season (revenue wise) then Mahomes absurd contract comes into play. With some of their players KC is going to have to do a lot of cap re-adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said: Rodgers and Wilson are way too old. Wilson is 32 years old already. I wouldnt be mad either but i cam say, imo. there aint NO way KC trades for Mahomes, at least not this year. Give his contract and another bad NFL season (revenue wise) then Mahomes absurd contract comes into play. With some of their players KC is going to have to do a lot of cap re-adjustments. This is why the Bills' window of opportunity is 2020 - 2022. Good players, particularly great QBs, start to eat into that salary cap and limit options for improving elsewhere. Unless they can get a Tom Brady nutritional consultant side deal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brennan Huff Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Mahomes puts ketchup on everything he eats. Hard pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 20 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: This is why the Bills' window of opportunity is 2020 - 2022. Good players, particularly great QBs, start to eat into that salary cap and limit options for improving elsewhere. Unless they can get a Tom Brady nutritional consultant side deal. I think you spelled "drug dealer" wrong. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 29 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said: Rodgers and Wilson are way too old. Wilson is 32 years old already. I wouldnt be mad either but i cam say, imo. there aint NO way KC trades for Mahomes, at least not this year. Give his contract and another bad NFL season (revenue wise) then Mahomes absurd contract comes into play. With some of their players KC is going to have to do a lot of cap re-adjustments. I mean obviously, Mahomes is pushing for a second MVP and they have a Lombardi. If Allen had those at this point we wouldn't be entertaining this one at all. I do not get the sense that Mahomes will ever be in a Wentz situation, where the need/cost to surround him with talent is higher than the QB cap hit allows. Mahomes seems totally capable (so far) in carrying that team and not necessarily dependent on Hill, Watkins, Kelce. We shall see though. Interesting point about continued revenue loss. Without full attendance in 2021 and the league committing to a 2022 normal cap, I wonder what these QB mega deals will start to look like. Of course there is the 5th year option, but I wonder if we see some guys play on tags or sign 2-3 year deals and wait for the cap to rebound before signing. Somebody posted here that either spotrac or overthecap had Allens value at about 41M AAV after the Denver or Pitt game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaadThingsMan Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 3 hours ago, billsfan89 said: Up 16 and the offense hung the defense out to dry. That's on Josh but 2019 was a growing year for him. The defense being asked to not give up anything when up 16 is unreasonable esp with a whole half left to play. Josh gets longer sustained drives and a TD in the third quarter and things are vastly different. Couple plays away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, Mango said: I mean obviously, Mahomes is pushing for a second MVP and they have a Lombardi. If Allen had those at this point we wouldn't be entertaining this one at all. I do not get the sense that Mahomes will ever be in a Wentz situation, where the need/cost to surround him with talent is higher than the QB cap hit allows. Mahomes seems totally capable (so far) in carrying that team and not necessarily dependent on Hill, Watkins, Kelce. We shall see though. Interesting point about continued revenue loss. Without full attendance in 2021 and the league committing to a 2022 normal cap, I wonder what these QB mega deals will start to look like. Of course there is the 5th year option, but I wonder if we see some guys play on tags or sign 2-3 year deals and wait for the cap to rebound before signing. Somebody posted here that either spotrac or overthecap had Allens value at about 41M AAV after the Denver or Pitt game. I think the Mahomes model of contracts where contracts will be taking up a percentage of the cap as opposed to a raw number will be the norm in these weird cap times. But I do agree that Mahomes will be an Aaron Rodgers type where pretty much no matter what they will be a 10+ win team that contends and wins playoff games. I also think KC will make the cap sacrifices on the defensive side of the ball as opposed to the offense. I think they would rather cut and let walk defensive players and keep the elite talent around him. That of course is going to lead to Mahomes having to win more shoot outs which is hard to do but he of course can do it with some regularity. The Bills luckily have one more year of Josh's rookie deal plus a 5th year option that will be steep but still keeps him under contract under market value (I think after 2021 is when they will have Josh's extension come in so they can lower the aav a bit by putting some money on that 5th year option.) But I also think McD will do the same thing as KC will do and load up on the offensive side draft and cap wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterLifer Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Blue on Blue said: In a word, zero. Expressed as a number, 0. Same here. We suffered, we waited, we strategized, planned and got him. No trade. We have Josh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Brennan Huff said: Mahomes puts ketchup on everything he eats. Hard pass That is not true. He uses ranch dressing on wings. I am expecting an endorsement deal for him soon. 57 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: The Bills luckily have one more year of Josh's rookie deal plus a 5th year option that will be steep but still keeps him under contract under market value (I think after 2021 is when they will have Josh's extension come in so they can lower the aav a bit by putting some money on that 5th year option.) But I also think McD will do the same thing as KC will do and load up on the offensive side draft and cap wise. Beane will do that not Coach McD. They each have skills and too many cite McD not Beane. He will get Coach McD input but Coach McD will not try to be puppeteer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 31 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Beane will do that not Coach McD. They each have skills and too many cite McD not Beane. He will get Coach McD input but Coach McD will not try to be puppeteer. I agree, I meant to write McBeane haha. I think McBeane going forward would make the sacrifices on the defense in order to keep Josh going on offense if a cap crunch happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 I'll get back to you after the playoffs because right now, I'm not sure I pull the trigger on Mahomes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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