Anyone else concerned with run game being the “top priority”?

[Steptide]

Getting the run game going can open up the passing game. It'll only make the offense better. Hopefully they get it figured out. I don't want 30 runs a game, but it'd be nice if the run game was a threat as well as the passing game 

[colin]

15 hours ago, Jerome007 said:

I'm still baffled how great the OL pass protect, but they can't push the pile with any consistency, and every 3rd & 1 has to be a creative play.

 

But I don't mind if the RBs catch passes for sweeps that are not counted as run plays but we all know they are. I don't understand how so few coaches have copied Greg Roman's creative running plays. He was awesome at that with the Bills, and obviously still is with the Ravens.

 

The run D is problematic too, for sure. It seems the blitzes have worked, and Klein has suddenly been turned on! He was a liability all year but the last 2 games he's been superb.

 

 

Edit: I'll say this, Singletarry, Moss, even Yeldon, have all been awesome pass blockers. IDK if it's all them the coaches, or both, but it's been impressive.

 

every time josh sneaks, it looks like we get a pretty good push.  

 

i think our short distance running w the backs is a problem because of the play calls/designs, blocking, and perhaps the biggest impact is the RB themselves.  they really don't blast into the hole and power through.

 

we've seen our team get run on in 3rd and short situations where an LB or DL knifes through only to get the tackle broken and the back lumbers forward to convert, but we don't seem to have what it takes to get that done ourselves.

[Big Turk]

No, they are 4th worst in the NFL in rushing yards per game with 97.6 and much below normal in regards to YPC averaging 4.0 when the NFL average this year is 4.4...they NEED to get this fixed and stop putting the offense in bad spots by losing 2 or 3 yards on half the carries.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Steptide said:

Getting the run game going can open up the passing game. It'll only make the offense better. Hopefully they get it figured out. I don't want 30 runs a game, but it'd be nice if the run game was a threat as well as the passing game 

 

Or to ya know - take 2nd and 5 to 3rd and 2? Instead of 2nd and 5 to 3rd and 8.

Edited November 19, 2020 by dneveu

[nucci]

19 hours ago, BobBelcher said:

I am a bit concerned with reports that fixing the run game is supposedly our top priority during the bye week. 
 

While I definitely recognize the lack of production here, this is also the best offense we have had in years and it was at its best in the Seattle game, a game in which we practically neglected the run altogether. 
 

My concern is if we come out of the bye with too much of an emphasis on establishing the run game against the Chargers when we already have something that is working for us at a high level right now. 
 

Guess you could say I believe the offense has already established its identify and I would put more of an emphasis on making the pass game even more potent, perhaps work on where it has struggled at times against zone coverage and fixing the run game becomes a secondary priority. 
 

Having said that, I realize that - unfortunately - the weather will dictate the game plan to some extent and it will be important to be able to call on the run game as needed in the month of December, but again, my concern would be over-committing to establishing the run game to where it has a negative impact on our pass attack. 
 

There is something to be said about being on pace to have the least number of punts in team history and I am sure we would all like to keep it that way.  

why would that concern you? The running game needs to improve

[ShakAttack]

1 hour ago, nucci said:

why would that concern you? The running game needs to improve

I think there has been some confusion in the responses in this thread. I did not disagree that the run game shouldn’t be “a priority” or even “a top priority” I just didn’t think it should be the “#1 priority” unless it means they are making the run game a priority to complement the pass game. My concern was that we over-commit to the run game to the extent it takes away from what we do best with the passing game, which is what has made this our most effective offense in years and the reason we punt a LOT less than we ever have.

 

I agree with fixing the run game, but I am also a believer in building on existing strengths.  I am fine with using the passing game to setup a more effective run game, as long as we don’t flip that script. Maybe I shouldn’t worry that would happen in the first place, but when I read that it was the #1 priority, the thought crossed my mind. 
 

and I agree, in the months of December, we need to be able to have an effective running game. I just don’t want it to ever come at the expense of what we do best on offense and potentially break something that has been working. There is a fine line here, guess time will tell
 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by BobBelcher

[nucci]

28 minutes ago, BobBelcher said:

I think there has been some confusion in the responses in this thread. I did not disagree that the run game shouldn’t be “a priority” or even “a top priority” I just didn’t think it should be the “#1 priority” unless it means they are making the run game a priority to complement the pass game. My concern was that we over-commit to the run game to the extent it takes away from what we do best with the passing game, which is what has made this our most effective offense in years and the reason we punt a LOT less than we ever have.

 

I agree with fixing the run game, but I am also a believer in building on existing strengths.  I am fine with using the passing game to setup a more effective run game, as long as we don’t flip that script. Maybe I shouldn’t worry that would happen in the first place, but when I read that it was the #1 priority, the thought crossed my mind. 
 

and I agree, in the months of December, we need to be able to have an effective running game. I just don’t want it to ever come at the expense of what we do best on offense and potentially break something that has been working. There is a fine line here, guess time will tell
 

 

I see your point but no reason for concern...they are going to rest and practice during the bye. You won't see too many changes to the basic game plan

[Freddie's Dead]

My top priority would be to fix the run defense, but what do I know?

[WideNine]

13 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

i agree. To me, this is priority no. 1. Easy fixes to get teams to stop blitzing 7 guys right at Josh’s face. The counter move has been that WR screen, which Arizona did a good job of stopping the second and third times we tried it against them. So we need to develop some new, additional counter-moves. 

 

Kubiak noted that the bubble screen off that bunched WR alignment failed because of blocking, but I lean your way on that take.

 

I think the Cards saw through it, did not take the bait of playing that formation like a typical bunch receiving assignment, and ran through and shed blocks to get to the guy that they knew was the intended receiver for the screen pass. Hard to block when the opposing team has diagnosed your play which relies on some trickery to set defenders up so they are in a position to be blocked out of the play.

[Victory Formation]

23 hours ago, H2o said:

We need to be able to run the ball effectively when we attempt to. There has to be a balance. Josh can sling it 40 times for 300+ every week, but at some point our running game has to produce more than 2 yds per carry. If we get that going it will just open things up even more.  

I think with a run game Josh would be even more deadly.. Josh is one of the best play action QBs in the league yet we have no running game.. Don’t think we have the personnel to be a good run team yet.. OL needs to be retooled, could use better blocking out of our TEs and could maybe benefit from adding a stud FB.. we’ll see..

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

21 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Kubiak noted that the bubble screen off that bunched WR alignment failed because of blocking, but I lean your way on that take.

 

I think the Cards saw through it, did not take the bait of playing that formation like a typical bunch receiving assignment, and ran through and shed blocks to get to the guy that they knew was the intended receiver for the screen pass. Hard to block when the opposing team has diagnosed your play which relies on some trickery to set defenders up so they are in a position to be blocked out of the play.

 

I think when we go empty 5 WR's, and the defenders are like 7 guys about ready to Blitz JA in the face, they need to think about motioning the back into the backfield more often, to chip and flare out in the flat. I am also surprised they don't run more quick WR screens out of that. 

 

We should be absolutely punishing defenses for rushing 7, when we are 5 wide.   

[appoo]

Not having a functioning run game (not even average, just functioning) is directly attributable to losing against AZ, and had a role to play in both INTs, which were higher risk throws that Allen probably doesn't attempt if he had a run game he knew could get some yards.  

 

They key here isn't to have a running game that says the O is gonna run the ball against a defense that wants to stop the run, it's to have enough of a threat so that defenses don't actively game plan against defending the run. I haven't watched the tape, but when safeties and backers don't even bother reading run, that puts a ton of pressure on your QB. 

 

That's why Josh Allen really should be getting more pub as MVP, especially with Russ taking a downturn the last few weeks. Both Rodgers and Mahomes have elite run games to balance them out. Allen has nothing but his shoulder to carry this team - and he's delivering. 

[grog]

No. My question is why is the team struggling to run, do they no longer practice run plays? Is there no self scouting?  It would seem to me a run play with this team should catch the opponent of guard and result in a successful down?

 

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

 

I think when we go empty 5 WR's, and the defenders are like 7 guys about ready to Blitz JA in the face, they need to think about motioning the back into the backfield more often, to chip and flare out in the flat. I am also surprised they don't run more quick WR screens out of that. 

 

We should be absolutely punishing defenses for rushing 7, when we are 5 wide.   

 

I thought about that too. Rather than coming out with 10 or 11 personnel and signaling to the other team that run is possible or likely where they sub in their run-stopping personnel and abandon their two-deep zone concepts for those that put more men on or near the line of scrimmage, we come out empty and move to a 10 or 11 alignment.

 

It would help if they did this in no-huddle sprints to prevent teams from subbing personnel in or out of the lineup.

 

I would like to see if that forces teams to play their 2-deep zone personnel in a quasi run-stopping alignment which may create some mismatches for the Bills to exploit. What got me thinking about this was how often I saw the Cards easily subbing guys in and out around our running plays. We did catch them once with too many or too little guys on the field, but I think we could catch teams more than that and also exploit those mismatches more.

 

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

My top priority would be to fix the run defense, but what do I know?

1a

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, WideNine said:

 

I thought about that too. Rather than coming out with 10 or 11 personnel and signaling to the other team that run is possible or likely where they sub in their run-stopping personnel and abandon their two-deep zone concepts for those that put more men on or near the line of scrimmage, we come out empty and move to a 10 or 11 alignment.

 

It would help if they did this in no-huddle sprints to prevent teams from subbing personnel in or out of the lineup.

 

I would like to see if that forces teams to play their 2-deep zone personnel in a quasi run-stopping alignment which may create some mismatches for the Bills to exploit. What got me thinking about this was how often I saw the Cards easily subbing guys in and out around our running plays. We did catch them once with too many or too little guys on the field, but I think we could catch teams more than that and also exploit those mismatches more.

 

 

 

 

great points.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

I think with a run game Josh would be even more deadly.. Josh is one of the best play action QBs in the league yet we have no running game.. Don’t think we have the personnel to be a good run team yet.. OL needs to be retooled, could use better blocking out of our TEs and could maybe benefit from adding a stud FB.. we’ll see..

 

And yet, there was the NE game - in which they knew we were gonna run, and by Jinks! we ran anyway.  To the tune of 190 yds, 167 were on Moss and Motor.

So if we don't have the personnel to be a good run team yet...how'd that happen?  Same guys on the field....

 

 NE doesn't have a bad run defense.  Not elite, but not awful.  Mid-league-ish.

 

9 hours ago, AmishRifle said:

Play design and missed assignments are the reasons we can’t run the ball.  Dabs needs to simplify the running game play design and adopt more power concepts.  Some of his designs call for and rely on crazy reach blocks that are very difficult to execute.

 

Some truth to this.  I think some of the play design is good, but I think it's too complex.  The changes on interior OL haven't helped.  Add in that it may not be a priority to practice during a typical week and that Daboll tends to love him a big diverse playbook, I think he could do the Bills run game a favor by picking a number of plays we've had most success with and just drilling them to perfection.

 

That's echoed by Greg Cosell's take here.  I commented on it elsewhere, but given the topic it's worth a listen here.  Good stuff about why and how he thinks getting the run game right will help our passing game.

 

I could be wrong but except for Mongo and maybe Dion, I don't think we have the guys for a power run game.  Possible Ford could develop there I guess?  It's certainly not going to be Morse's forte.

[Beast]

It's going to be important if we have a game in terrible weather. Especially if that game is in the playoffs.

[3rdand12]

On 11/18/2020 at 5:27 PM, Don Otreply said:

I would suspect that having a functioning run game is what they are actually trying to create, not switching to a run first offense, doing that would be beyond being Billsy, it would be the just plain stupid. 
 

At present the team has virtually no run game to intersperse into the overall game plan, which is a pass first concept. There is nothing to get up about with the need to be able to run the ball more effectively. 
 

Go Bills!!!

Yes.

 Holistic approach to the Offense 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 11/18/2020 at 3:45 PM, Estro said:

Yes, I heard McDermott mention it in his last presser and my first thought was "uh oh".  

 

Anytime Singletary touches the ball it feels like a wasted play.  Moss has been a little better, but not by much.  Any thought that either of those guys needs more touches is not a good idea if the idea is maximizing our offensive output.

Which is odd because last year he was averaging 5 ypc. Is it that with 11 personnel the defense brings more athletic DBs who are better able to stop and contain him? 
 

the line is mostly the same guys. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood