Josh Was Hurt... Theory Inside

[Victory Formation]

I think John Brown is hugely important.. He is a very good #2... when he went down it really hurt us.. although I’m sure the shoulder injury didn’t help..

[947]

I had a grade 2 shoulder separation & I couldn't lift my infant son above my abdomen without extreme pain for at least a month. Even on a non-throwing shoulder, QBs still have to lift their front arm for proper throwing mechanics. If Josh couldn't do that without pain, it absolutely affected his mechanics, and that leads to confidence issues as well.

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, 947 said:

I had a grade 2 shoulder separation & I couldn't lift my infant son above my abdomen without extreme pain for at least a month. Even on a non-throwing shoulder, QBs still have to lift their front arm for proper throwing mechanics. If Josh couldn't do that without pain, it absolutely affected his mechanics, and that leads to confidence issues as well.

 

I had a left shoulder injury about a year ago that lasted many months. I went to the park and “played” tennis as I usually did, about 5 days a week. I couldn’t even lift my left arm to toss for a serve, so I just hit ground strokes. One guy says “you’re not even hitting your groundstrokes with the same pace, and you’re right handed!”. I responded that just moving and turning my torso risked that jolt of pain in my left shoulder. Maybe not as bad as a broken rib, but serious pain that affects everything you do. 

 

This stuff can affect you even if it’s not the throwing arm. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I'd say it was more about Brown and Knox being out than the shoulder.  No doubt the shoulder injury may have played a  role, but without Brown they lost a lot of speed on offense.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

Matt Hasselbeck said yesterday that he once had the injury Josh has on his non-throwing shoulder. He said it causes you to throw high, and that it takes 4-5 weeks to start to feel like yourself again. I thought that was pretty interesting.

Honestly, I think it was a perfect storm of reasons: Josh's injury, John Brown's absence, and the new ways that defenses were playing the Bills offense. Luckily, Josh seems to have healed up, John Brown is back in the lineup, and they're figuring out how to beat the soft zones.

 

This

 

3 hours ago, Ramza86 said:

His throws were not off during the slump.

 

They were, actually.  Jim Kubiak, who analyzes Josh's play each week for TBN, counted up 6 throws that were just inaccurate, off target during the KC game.

Josh did some of his best work against KC in the 4th Q - when he removed the brace.

 

Other throws weren't as inaccurate, but a few inches can make a difference between a challenging catch under tight physical coverage, or an incompletion.  (Or a ball off Roberts pads)

 

But yes, other of his struggles were adjusting to taking the short underneath throws, and the fact that we had no run game to speak of did not help.

[Dablitzkrieg]

3 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Your theory doesn't address the mental side of his game, which also took a hit around the time he put on the shoulder brace.

 

Tennessee put 7 guys in coverage and it confused Josh; others followed suit and he remained confused. 

 

We then played the worst D in the NFL on Sunday and he had a great comeback game.

 

It will be interesting to see which Josh we get next week.

 

 

Why are you the way you are?

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, BringBackFlutie said:

And torrential downpours.

Or wind. Yesterday was a qb's dream. No wind, rain or snow makes a world of difference. That's why it's imperative that somehow this domed stadium gets started. Josh has to have it for most of his career.

[BringBackFlutie]

11 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Or wind. Yesterday was a qb's dream. No wind, rain or snow makes a world of difference. That's why it's imperative that somehow this domed stadium gets started. Josh has to have it for most of his career.

But isn't half the idea of having a rocket arm QB that he can throw in conditions?  I think it's just the rain that sucks. 

[That's No Moon]

10 minutes ago, BringBackFlutie said:

But isn't half the idea of having a rocket arm QB that he can throw in conditions?  I think it's just the rain that sucks. 

sure, it helps. but if you have that guy in perfect conditions its even better

[billsfan89]

4 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Your theory doesn't address the mental side of his game, which also took a hit around the time he put on the shoulder brace.

 

Tennessee put 7 guys in coverage and it confused Josh; others followed suit and he remained confused. 

 

We then played the worst D in the NFL on Sunday and he had a great comeback game.

 

It will be interesting to see which Josh we get next week.

 

 

 

Josh had a dam fine game against the Jets they just got some bad calls and made some mistakes in the redzone that led to them piling up huge yardage but kicking a bunch of field goals. Against the Pats Josh stuck to the gameplan and ran the ball down the Pats throat.

 

Josh got rocked against a different gameplan against the Titans and against the Chiefs he did OK but there were limited posessions.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

4 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Your theory doesn't address the mental side of his game, which also took a hit around the time he put on the shoulder brace.

 

Tennessee put 7 guys in coverage and it confused Josh; others followed suit and he remained confused. 

 

We then played the worst D in the NFL on Sunday and he had a great comeback game.

 

It will be interesting to see which Josh we get next week.

 

 

On the Tennessee game, first half he was terrible, second half he settled in but was too little too late and started forcing stuff

 

But one of the reasons he looked and played confused is the titians never drop in coverage; the are a big man aggressive coverage. All the prep was in all likely hood for that type of coverage

 

On a side note Vrabel has only played that defense against the pats, and played it against buffalo in week 4 of the regular season. That to me says something about what he thinks of the bills

[The Wiz]

His injury was brought up by Matt Hasselbeck.

 

Interesting perspective from Matt Hasselbeck on Josh Allen just now on ESPN. Discussed Allen’s shoulder injury saying he had the same injury & it causes you to miss throws high. Added this is around the time you really start to recover & feel like yourself again.

[ehfeuh57]

It was Weather

[gordong]

Go watch Daboll's press conference...   did the injury have any affect on josh..   Daboll "I'll just say Josh is a tuff dude" 

[Kwai San]

Absolutely AMAZEBALLS how many armchair physicians we have here at TBD.  I am now cancelling my health insurance, quitting work and will set up a web site that will allow me to contact these armchair docs and connect them with people that have ailments that need to be diagnosed via a chat site.  I WILL make millions.....millions I tell you!!  We have the best, the bestest of the best, none better.  They all KNOW whats right and what wrong.

 

SMH guys.....really?  Dang......

[colin]

i mean, if it was hurt enough to wear a brace, and then it improved enough so that he didn't have to wear it anymore, it doesn't seem like much of a leap to say the corresponding difference in his play was impacted by that.  

 

what are people arguing about?

[prissythecat]

13 hours ago, DeltaDigital said:

As everyone knows, the first 4 games of the season, ol Joshy boy light the world on fire, and appeared unstoppable and in the running for MVP mention...

Then he got his non throwing shoulder crunched during the raider game, and immediately went into the tent before the half... 

 

The entire mafia was holding its breath at that point, and to our/my surprise, he was back out there, barely missing a beat. 

 

But he had a brace on his shoulder... his non throwing shoulder. Hear me out.. 

 

Josh's off season had to do with mechanics... throwing mechanics, and becoming a more rotational thrower... 

 

We don't know exactly the extent of the injury he had, probably a sprain or something... 

 

BUT. 

 

Wearing a brace on your non throwing shoulder would cause some unfamiliarity and interference with your rotational mechanics. 

 

When trying to establish muscle memory for mechanics all off season, and you toss an apparatus on your non throwing shoulder, that will mess with some things. 

 

Seattle was the first game since LVR we've seen him without that brace. 

Yes, seattle has a historically bad pass defense, but Josh was ripping them in there with confidence again. 

I blame the brace for the slide in performance... May his ancestors protect him. 🙏 #gobills

 

Thoughts? 

There is your answer right there.  Though it was great to see Josh look good,  nothing beats facing a porous pass defense to boost ones confidence.  I suspect that when the Bills play a top 5 defense like Steelers,  we will see some regression .   Hopefully not as bad as what we saw during the losing streak.

[mjt328]

During the offseason, Cover 1 did a full breakdown of Josh Allen's mechanical issues.  

https://www.cover1.net/taming-josh-allens-arm-how-mechanical-tweaks-have-buffalos-qb-primed-for-a-year-3-leap/

 

It's a fantastic article, for anyone who hasn't gotten a chance to read it.  While a lot of Allen's early struggles involved footwork and head control, they also have an entire section about how his left arm (keeping it tight) is key in affecting balance.

 

I'm certainly not an expert in QB mechanics, but I thought Allen's throwing motion was noticeably different starting with the Titans game.  So it's interesting that Seattle was his first game since Week 4 without the brace, and definitely lends support to the theory that the injury was affecting his play.

 

 

[HOUSE]

From the title name I thought Josh Allen had internal injuries...

 

[Rochesterfan]

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This

 

 

They were, actually.  Jim Kubiak, who analyzes Josh's play each week for TBN, counted up 6 throws that were just inaccurate, off target during the KC game.

Josh did some of his best work against KC in the 4th Q - when he removed the brace.

 

Other throws weren't as inaccurate, but a few inches can make a difference between a challenging catch under tight physical coverage, or an incompletion.  (Or a ball off Roberts pads)

 

But yes, other of his struggles were adjusting to taking the short underneath throws, and the fact that we had no run game to speak of did not help.

 

 100% agree - there were also more overthrows and ground balls than before.  The ball was on the correct line, but not at the correct height - which is usually driven by the shoulders and getting them aligned at the correct height.  
 

I think what you saw was his 1st pass in the Tennessee game set that entire game up and it was high and a bit late allowing Roberts to deflect it for the Int.  - The Bills fell behind and the gameplan went to crap.  
 

KC the weather had an impact along with the shoulder.  It was cold, wet, and windy.  That makes the balls heavier and slicker and harder to throw and I think the brace was still bothering him - adding to the difficulty.  The Defense was playing a game to force KC to be slow and methodical and the offense just never got going.  Give Buffalo the weather from Sunday - sunny and 75 and Josh maybe plays better (of course so does Mahomes and maybe it matters little).

 

I think the Bills know what the issues were, but you will not hear Josh or the team use it as an excuse.  If he was healthy enough to play he has to do his job and he and the team recognize that.  I think it is important though as fans that we recognize why some of these things occur and maybe do not attribute it to things like regression and understand how important the overall health of these players are and the impact on the game.