What constitutes an ineligible man downfield penalty?

[Coach55]

What warrants an ineligible man downfield penalty?  Below is a screenshot on a 3rd and 12 on their final drive.  3 KC offensive lineman are down field including one who is 6 yards past the line of scrimmage.  I am not making excuses for Buffalo as the Defense has been non-existent, but isn't this a clear rule violation?

[1ManRaid]

That O-lineman was very much "close enough" to being within 5 yards.  His butt was basically overhanging the 5 yard marker, and if they are going by illegal forward pass rules then only a part of his body still has to be on or behind the line.

 

Splitting hairs here.

 

*edit* For some reason I was remembering illegal contact which is 5 yards downfield.  Yeah that's a foul and another classic screw job.  You learn every day.

Edited October 23, 2020 by 1ManRaid

[KD in CA]

The penalty is for an illegal man downfield, not illegal men downfield, so if you have 3 of them, it's ok.

[PetermansRedemption]

3 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

That O-lineman was very much "close enough" to being within 5 yards.  His butt was basically overhanging the 5 yard marker, and if they are going by illegal forward pass rules then only a part of his body still has to be on or behind the line.

 

Splitting hairs here.

Is the rule really 5 yards? I’m looking it up now and will edit back, but I feel like that’s quite a bit of leeway to give a professional NFL player. Little league where they don’t know the rules, fine.

[ExiledInIllinois]

5 yards. 

[thebandit27]

This penalty is the one that drives me batty every Sunday.

 

It happens all the time and doesn’t get called. And then, occasionally, an official will decide “yeah, you know what? I’m feelin’ it this time.” and throws a flag. I’d say it gets called 1 out of every 20 times I see it.

[ExiledInIllinois]

If the receiver was between the 38 & 41... They may have called it, since OLineman was in position to make a block. 

 

Anyway,  it's really close.  Like uptrend poster said, his butt's at 5 yards. 

Just now, thebandit27 said:

This penalty is the one that drives me batty every Sunday.

 

It happens all the time and doesn’t get called. And then, occasionally, an official will decide “yeah, you know what? I’m feelin’ it this time.” and throws a flag. I’d say it gets called 1 out of every 20 times I see it.

Judgement call.  Does it affect the play?

[PetermansRedemption]

Found the rule. Section 3 of the NFL rule book. Five yards isn’t specifically mentioned. But there is obvious leeway given to the judgement of the covering official. 
 

Item 2. Illegally Downfield. An ineligible offensive player is illegally downfield if:
(a) he moves more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage without contacting an opponent
(b) after losing contact with an opponent within one yard of the line of scrimmage, he advances more than one yard beyond the
line of scrimmage
(c) after losing contact with an opponent more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, he continues to move toward his
opponent’s goal line.

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

If the receiver was between the 38 & 41... They may have called it, since OLineman was in position to make a block. 

 

Anyway,  it's really close.  Like uptrend poster said, his butt's at 5 yards. 

Judgement call.  Does it affect the play?

On nearly every screen pass? Absolutely.
 

The times it gets called? Usually not.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

That O-lineman was very much "close enough" to being within 5 yards.  His butt was basically overhanging the 5 yard marker, and if they are going by illegal forward pass rules then only a part of his body still has to be on or behind the line.

 

Splitting hairs here.

 

*edit* For some reason I was remembering illegal contact which is 5 yards downfield.  Yeah that's a foul and another classic screw job.  You learn every day.

completely wrong

 

Item 2. Illegally Downfield. An ineligible offensive player is illegally downfield if:

1. he moves more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage without contacting an opponent
2. after losing contact with an opponent within one yard of the line of scrimmage, he advances more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage
3. after losing contact with an opponent more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, he continues to move toward his opponent’s goal line.

[Buffalo716]

The NFL's rule book says over 1 yard downfield is a penalty

 

The refs obviously give a little leeway

[SirAndrew]

A lesser QB does. Mahomes is the face of the NFL, he gets Brady rules from now on. 

11 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The NFL's rule book says over 1 yard downfield is a penalty

 

The refs obviously give a little leeway

Yep, and more leeway is given to the best teams/QB’s. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

I'd have to believe that is one of the more difficult rules for officials to monitor as can imagine the refs are going to be following the ball at that point, in particular when the QB sprints out.

[Kwai San]

Just now, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

I'd have to believe that is one of the more difficult rules for officials to monitor as can imagine the refs are going to be following the ball at that point, in particular when the QB sprints out.

 

Each official has a job.  Not all of them are watching the ball and ball carrier.  Some get caught up but these guys have been around the block before.  My take is that the game is SO big and fast at that level that yeah calls like this would need to be blatant or they happened to be focused on it due to the coaches on the sideline are chirping about it.  If you ever officiated a game you would be AMAZED at how much certain coaches will constantly rag you about this that and the other.  Some teams have JAG who does this and only this.

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

I'd have to believe that is one of the more difficult rules for officials to monitor as can imagine the refs are going to be following the ball at that point, in particular when the QB sprints out.

Line judge and down judge are responsible for LOS stuff 

[ExiledInIllinois]

42 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Found the rule. Section 3 of the NFL rule book. Five yards isn’t specifically mentioned. But there is obvious leeway given to the judgement of the covering official. 
 

Item 2. Illegally Downfield. An ineligible offensive player is illegally downfield if:
(a) he moves more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage without contacting an opponent
(b) after losing contact with an opponent within one yard of the line of scrimmage, he advances more than one yard beyond the
line of scrimmage
(c) after losing contact with an opponent more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, he continues to move toward his
opponent’s goal line.

I assume from the ScreenShot there was contact in that zone shown.  Mahomes was swinging out.

There's a Bills pass rusher for every lineman in shot, and close.

 

Only thing... Where's the right tackle?  Just out of the shot to left??

[nucci]

whatever the rule , it's a dumb one...along with the illegal formation penalty where the end is uncovered....NFL needs to look at this along with D jumping over the line but getting back before the snap but OL points and it's a penalty....these bother me. Thanks for listening

[whatdrought]

I think that rule pretty much only applies if a player does, or has potential to impact the play downfield. Technically it may be a violation, but they don’t care unless it’s gonna matter, which is how I think it should be. This would be a ticky tack call and no way to win a game. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, nucci said:

whatever the rule , it's a dumb one...along with the illegal formation penalty where the end is uncovered....NFL needs to look at this along with D jumping over the line but getting back before the snap but OL points and it's a penalty....these bother me. Thanks for listening

 

Yeah - if they jump Offside, you shouldn't be allowed to move.  You know the snap count.  If they touch you? Encroachment.  If you snap it? Offside - free play.  Thats it.

[JimBob2232]

I dont know what is real here - but from what i read on this thread - the key is "after losing contact" he cant go more than one yard.  If he drove a guy 10 yards down the field - then lost contact, he can stay there all day and be legit - per what i read here.  He just cant go more than one more yard.