RunTheBall Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 I’m friendly with one of our ex offensive coordinators and sometimes talk some football in the gym with him. He mentioned our current OC gave him a call last week to discuss some run and shoot concepts that he’s been slowly integrating into the O. I guess that TD pass to Beasley was something Beasley learned from June Jones back at SMU and has been lobbying Daboll to put in for some time. I seem to recall an Athletic article along the same lines. Anyway, I guess the gist of the call was Daboll wanted to pick his brain about putting more run and shoot route concepts into the O. The issue with it as I understand is that the QB and WR make both pre and post snap reads so they must be on the same page or balls will be going all over the place. Kind of like what Brady mastered in NE for so long but it takes a lot of time and chemistry to develop and is difficulty to implement in the middle of the season. This ex OC is very impressed with Daboll and says he’s always looking for new wrinkles or how to expand the offense and is very open to player suggestions on how to improve it. I told him if he talks again to tell him to spend a little time on the damn running game. 10 2 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemsonBills Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) The running game will get going. We are just going to be a team that passes to set up the run. We also don't know what JA is doing at the line. For example, is he checking to pass in run heavy sets? Is he checking to run with 6 in the box? I know this is off the original topic- but the offense will start to gel, I am less worried about the offense Edited October 23, 2020 by ClemsonBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) Makes sense. Those option routes are especially dangerous near the goal line with a guy like Bease—just iso him in the slot, he releases inside and the defender basically has to pick his leverage. If he shades inside it’s a whip route to the pylon; if he shades outside it’s a drag. Smart game planning. Edited October 23, 2020 by thebandit27 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Beasley is such a good football player. Love that guy. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Beasley is such a good football player. Love that guy. I think we are going to see a decent size uptick in targets to Beasley going forward....especially since defenses are taking away the deep ball. He's always open and moves the chains....Allen needs to look his way more. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Beasley is such a good football player. Love that guy. He's been even better this year than last year. Just catching everything thrown his way. He is easily one of my favorite players on the team. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagoon Blues Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Whether it is true or just my perception, they seem to wait until later in the game to get him involved. Seems like getting him involved early underneath would open the deeper routes that have been lacking lately due to the deeper safety play. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 That's definitely cool info. My only concern about it is that I hope Daboll is going to spend time focusing on the offense's identity. Being "multiple" is fine but you also need a go-to identity, something you can always go back to, and be multiple out of. What is ours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Curtis Modkins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 hour ago, RunTheBall said: I’m friendly with one of our ex offensive coordinators and sometimes talk some football in the gym with him. He mentioned our current OC gave him a call last week to discuss some run and shoot concepts that he’s been slowly integrating into the O. I guess that TD pass to Beasley was something Beasley learned from June Jones back at SMU and has been lobbying Daboll to put in for some time. I seem to recall an Athletic article along the same lines. Anyway, I guess the gist of the call was Daboll wanted to pick his brain about putting more run and shoot route concepts into the O. The issue with it as I understand is that the QB and WR make both pre and post snap reads so they must be on the same page or balls will be going all over the place. Kind of like what Brady mastered in NE for so long but it takes a lot of time and chemistry to develop and is difficulty to implement in the middle of the season. This ex OC is very impressed with Daboll and says he’s always looking for new wrinkles or how to expand the offense and is very open to player suggestions on how to improve it. I told him if he talks again to tell him to spend a little time on the damn running game. There were some articles about this at the time of the Cowboys game and afterwards, that the Bills has already been incorporating some of the K-Gun or June Jones run-n-shoot concepts. Knox talked about needing to provide Josh with clearer body language (evidently the receiver's body language signals the QB what route variation he's gonna run). Anyway, Beasley talked on 'mic'd up' during the Cowboys game that one of the TD passes he caught was an SMU play he suggested to Daboll. I'll see if I can find one of the articles. I'm sure Daboll is trying to spend more time on the run game. We really need a run game coordinator though, I don't think it's his best talent. 58 minutes ago, Lagoon Blues said: Whether it is true or just my perception, they seem to wait until later in the game to get him involved. Seems like getting him involved early underneath would open the deeper routes that have been lacking lately due to the deeper safety play. I think that's more on Allen than on Beasley. Allen still has that "touchdowns first" mentality and won't take the checkdown when he should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Bills Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 25 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: That's definitely cool info. My only concern about it is that I hope Daboll is going to spend time focusing on the offense's identity. Being "multiple" is fine but you also need a go-to identity, something you can always go back to, and be multiple out of. What is ours? I never understood this line of thinking. Who cares about "identity"? I'd much rather prefer an offense to demonstrate that they can beat you in any way they see fit. Kind of like what KC did on Monday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanmiamioh Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said: I think we are going to see a decent size uptick in targets to Beasley going forward....especially since defenses are taking away the deep ball. He's always open and moves the chains....Allen needs to look his way more. I was screaming for this all game this past Monday. They were taking away the deeper stuff, we needed to work the underneath stuff, burn some clock and keep their offense off the field. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Interesting. I'd enjoy watching that. Hopefully the advice also included "after halftime, even with a big lead, keep them running, keep them shooting." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: Beasley is such a good football player. Love that guy. I gotta confess...living in Cowboys country, I hated him...until he signed with us! Now I think he is super underrated! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: There were some articles about this at the time of the Cowboys game and afterwards, that the Bills has already been incorporating some of the K-Gun or June Jones run-n-shoot concepts. Knox talked about needing to provide Josh with clearer body language (evidently the receiver's body language signals the QB what route variation he's gonna run). Anyway, Beasley talked on 'mic'd up' during the Cowboys game that one of the TD passes he caught was an SMU play he suggested to Daboll. I'll see if I can find one of the articles. I'm sure Daboll is trying to spend more time on the run game. We really need a run game coordinator though, I don't think it's his best talent. I think that's more on Allen than on Beasley. Allen still has that "touchdowns first" mentality and won't take the checkdown when he should. Edit here y'all go https://theathletic.co.uk/1421086/2019/12/02/inside-the-passing-concept-thats-helped-the-josh-allen-cole-beasley-connection-come-alive/ 32 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: That's definitely cool info. My only concern about it is that I hope Daboll is going to spend time focusing on the offense's identity. Being "multiple" is fine but you also need a go-to identity, something you can always go back to, and be multiple out of. What is ours? Mitch Morse summed it up last year: "Our Identity is that Daboll is a Lunatic" (Morse referring to someone as a lunatic is apparently a compliment) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, QB Bills said: I never understood this line of thinking. Who cares about "identity"? I'd much rather prefer an offense to demonstrate that they can beat you in any way they see fit. Kind of like what KC did on Monday. That's certainly Daboll's view and it worked in New England (which is obviously where he got it). IMO it can work with a very versatile and intelligent set of players. I don't think KC wants or expects to win too many more games that way - if the Bills actually made tackles, or achieved first downs on offense, the game would've gone very differently. I do think most offenses, and certainly this one, need to have something they can fall back on as a "go to" approach. I knew the game was lost as soon as I saw Daboll run Moss out of I-formation in the critical series of the third quarter on Monday - a formation and player that have never been successful for this offense. And he does that crap all of the time - he prefers surprise over execution and it sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 I remember the Oilers and Lions were the big run and shoot teams back in the days even abandoning full backs and to some degree tight ends in the offense which was unheard of in those days. Ultimately as they ran it the system couldn't work because the QBs were exposed to too many hits and eventually the D caught up with it. The concepts were very cool tho and really stressed the defense, especially since most teams defensively were still built to stop the run and didn't have the same personnel as we have today that are more geared towards stopping the pass. Fun fact is that when Kelly was in the USFL he ran the run and shoot with the Houston Gamblers under Mouse Davis and June Jones was the WR coach. So the run and shoot in the NFL teams adopted actually came from the USFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Mitch Morse summed it up last year: "Our Identity is that Daboll is a Lunatic" (Morse referring to someone as a lunatic is apparently a compliment) Yeah, exactly. That freaks me out. That's not a recipe for success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Ex OC.... knew the run and shoot..... did he also once get punched by Rex's dad? 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 hour ago, ClemsonBills said: The running game will get going. We are just going to be a team that passes to set up the run. We also don't know what JA is doing at the line. For example, is he checking to pass in run heavy sets? Is he checking to run with 6 in the box? I know this is off the original topic- but the offense will start to gel, I am less worried about the offense What makes you so sure that the running game will get going. Daboll first year as OC, we had one of the most pathetic running games in history. I blamed it on our OL. We upgraded the OL the following year and our run game was a little better. The following year, it’s back to year 1. I hope you’re right. Without a threat of a running game, it’s going to be near impossible to pass vs some of these opposing DCs game plans. Our running game isn’t just bad. Opposing teams aren’t even paying attention to our run game and we can’t even open holes. It’s worrisome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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