Zimmer needs to replace Oliver in starting lineup

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, NI Bills Fan said:

Apologies if it's already been mentioned on this thread, but i'm not hearing much about the supposed 'upgrade' in DL coach in Eric Washington in relation the poor perforamce of the DL this season.  I'm not close enough/knowledgable enough to accuratley compare him with his predecessor, but all the talk in the off season was this was a huge upgrade.

 

From what I read/hear on the DL there doesnt seem to be much scrutiny on Washington's impact and the blame seems to lie solely with Frazier/the players.

 

 

 

It is a good point. I know little about how good a DL coach Washington is but he was a disaster as the defensive playcaller in Carolina after inheriting a top defense from McDermott and Wilkes.

[NI Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Stephen Colbert called. They want you on ZOOM.

 

 

Phillips was a force, but on very few plays. He was bad against the run and had very few pressures outside of his sacks, which is kind of weird, but true. I liked his personality, but he was more lucky than very good. And his record shows the same this year.

 

I would agree regarding Jordan Phillips.  I can remember at least 3 of his sacks where he wasnt engaged by the OL at all and he walked straight onto the QB.

[mjt328]

On 10/20/2020 at 8:17 PM, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I would say the D-Line is going to be overhauled to some extent in 2021. I think the transition to a 3-4 would be a good idea but we would need a new DC for that. Dan Quinn is a guy I would keep a eye on. He is probably going back to being a DC and someone I would throw money at. Quinn was one of those guys who is a great DC but not so good as a HC. 

 

The Bills will run Sean McDermott's defensive scheme as long as he's the head coach.  Period.

Leslie Frasier is just calling the plays.  But don't be fooled.  This defense is McDermott's, and nothing in that scheme is going to change.

 

Go back and look at his defenses before coming to Buffalo, and what kind of players they needed to be successful.  Our current scheme/system is almost identical to what Carolina ran during its best years.  The 2015 Panther team (which went 15-1) actually featured Star Lotulelei, Mario Addison and Josh Norman in the starting lineup.  Tremaine Edmunds/Matt Milano are basically the Bills version of Luke Kuechly/Thomas Davis.  Ed Oliver is the Bills answer to Kawaan Short.

 

As I've said before.  The Bills DO NOT need a total defensive overhaul.  They don't need a totally new group of players on the D-Line.  They don't need to move Edmunds and get a thumper at MLB.  None of that fits what McDermott does.  What we need is someone to fill-in for the loss of Lotulelei, and we need Milano to come back healthy.  

 

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

The Bills will run Sean McDermott's defensive scheme as long as he's the head coach.  Period.

Leslie Frasier is just calling the plays.  But don't be fooled.  This defense is McDermott's, and nothing in that scheme is going to change.

 

Go back and look at his defenses before coming to Buffalo, and what kind of players they needed to be successful.  Our current scheme/system is almost identical to what Carolina ran during its best years.  The 2015 Panther team (which went 15-1) actually featured Star Lotulelei, Mario Addison and Josh Norman in the starting lineup.  Tremaine Edmunds/Matt Milano are basically the Bills version of Luke Kuechly/Thomas Davis.  Ed Oliver is the Bills answer to Kawaan Short.

 

As I've said before.  The Bills DO NOT need a total defensive overhaul.  They don't need a totally new group of players on the D-Line.  They don't need to move Edmunds and get a thumper at MLB.  None of that fits what McDermott does.  What we need is someone to fill-in for the loss of Lotulelei, and we need Milano to come back healthy.  

 

 

I think McD paired with a 3-4 DC would be interesting. I believe McD best area of coaching is also with the secondary. As a defensive HC I’m sure he is looking around the NFL to see what is working with other teams. When you see 3-4 defenses at the top it should peek your interest. 

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

The Bills will run Sean McDermott's defensive scheme as long as he's the head coach.  Period.

Leslie Frasier is just calling the plays.  But don't be fooled.  This defense is McDermott's, and nothing in that scheme is going to change.

 

Go back and look at his defenses before coming to Buffalo, and what kind of players they needed to be successful.  Our current scheme/system is almost identical to what Carolina ran during its best years.  The 2015 Panther team (which went 15-1) actually featured Star Lotulelei, Mario Addison and Josh Norman in the starting lineup.  Tremaine Edmunds/Matt Milano are basically the Bills version of Luke Kuechly/Thomas Davis.  Ed Oliver is the Bills answer to Kawaan Short.

 

As I've said before.  The Bills DO NOT need a total defensive overhaul.  They don't need a totally new group of players on the D-Line.  They don't need to move Edmunds and get a thumper at MLB.  None of that fits what McDermott does.  What we need is someone to fill-in for the loss of Lotulelei, and we need Milano to come back healthy.  

 

 

I’ve been thinking this is the case as well.  How could we go from being so good to so bad. Shaq and phillips weren’t THAT good.  Lack of a one tech and missing milano could be the case.  If I’m a the opposing OC, I’m targeting Klein and the middle of our offense all day.  That will open the rest of the field up 

[OrtonHearsaWho]

The guy made a few nice plays but I cannot disagree more because on other plays he looked like he was on roller skates.  McD tried to send a message to Murphy and Harrison and it seems to have backfired badly.

 

Oliver hasn't been great but it's a bit tough when they play him so badly out of position at the one technique.  I really would like to see them move him around the line a bit more, similar to how Seattle used Jefferson...oh and maybe do that with Jefferson a bit more.

 

What has been very frustrating - and I believe someone else alluded to this - is that very rarely do multiple players win their matchups on the same play.  There have been a TON of plays where someone, be it Hughes (yes he beats his man quite a bit), Oliver, Addison or someone else makes a great play but the rest of the line seems to get manhandled so all it takes is a little pocket awareness by the QB to avoid pressure.

 

One other thing.  I really like Shaq and Jordan but the nostalgia for both of them here is astonishing.  They were good players and I loved their attitudes but they absolutely were not the all pros that so many here make them out to be.

 

 

[BeastMode54]

Oliver was good last year and for the first two games this year. He has been playing out of position because Phillips has been so bad. We need a 1-tech badly.

[3rdand12]

On 10/19/2020 at 8:10 PM, bills6969 said:

In Zimmer’s short time on the field, he had 3 more tackles and 1 TFL. Oliver is a waste of space and frankly, is looking like a bust.

they should play side by side as complimentary skill sets.

 

[Mango]

Joe B. pointed out something I didn’t realize with Oliver. We have him lining up at 1-tech far too often. I don’t think it’s a leap to suggest that’s why we haven’t seen enough or consistent production out of him. He’s too small to play 1-tech. 
 

That said, Zimmer should be playing 1-tech. So if by starting you mean, stop lining up Oliver at 1-tech and use him almost exclusively at 3-tech, then sure, why not. It can’t be any worse. 
 

...but if you mean replace him at 3-tech, you are out of your gord. 

[97bills]

On 10/19/2020 at 9:37 PM, poblano said:

Maybe he could play for us when is inactive for Miami, you know, as has been happened in the season

 

Yes Lawson didn’t do nothing his hole time here besides the year it was time to get paid and now his doing nothing in Miami. 

[Jauronimo]

 

 

[RochesterLifer]

On 10/24/2020 at 5:27 PM, 97bills said:

Yes Lawson didn’t do nothing his hole time here besides the year it was time to get paid and now his doing nothing in Miami. 

This may be my favorite post ever - and not for good reasons.

[Putin]

On 10/24/2020 at 4:27 PM, 97bills said:

Yes Lawson didn’t do nothing his hole time here besides the year it was time to get paid and now his doing nothing in Miami. 

Shaq was the one player I was hoping to keep , I think he set the edge well and was underrated against the run 

[97bills]

3 hours ago, RochesterLifer said:

This may be my favorite post ever - and not for good reasons.

Glad I could make you happy 

[vincec]

On 10/23/2020 at 12:04 PM, OrtonHearsaWho said:

The guy made a few nice plays but I cannot disagree more because on other plays he looked like he was on roller skates.  McD tried to send a message to Murphy and Harrison and it seems to have backfired badly.

 

Oliver hasn't been great but it's a bit tough when they play him so badly out of position at the one technique.  I really would like to see them move him around the line a bit more, similar to how Seattle used Jefferson...oh and maybe do that with Jefferson a bit more.

 

What has been very frustrating - and I believe someone else alluded to this - is that very rarely do multiple players win their matchups on the same play.  There have been a TON of plays where someone, be it Hughes (yes he beats his man quite a bit), Oliver, Addison or someone else makes a great play but the rest of the line seems to get manhandled so all it takes is a little pocket awareness by the QB to avoid pressure.

 

One other thing.  I really like Shaq and Jordan but the nostalgia for both of them here is astonishing.  They were good players and I loved their attitudes but they absolutely were not the all pros that so many here make them out to be.

 

 

Murphy is apparently on the trading block and Harrison might not be far behind him, so I think it's more than just sending a message.

On 10/23/2020 at 11:20 AM, NewEra said:

I’ve been thinking this is the case as well.  How could we go from being so good to so bad. Shaq and phillips weren’t THAT good.  Lack of a one tech and missing milano could be the case.  If I’m a the opposing OC, I’m targeting Klein and the middle of our offense all day.  That will open the rest of the field up 

If you think about it, the Bills lost 3 of their top 4 DL from last season. Lawson, Lotulelei and Phillips. At DT they even lost a prime backup in Vince Taylor. So it's not really that much of a surprise that they're struggling badly.

Edited October 29, 2020 by vincec

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, vincec said:

Murphy is apparently on the trading block and Harrison might not be far behind him, so I think it's more than just sending a message.

If you think about it, the Bills lost 3 of their top 4 DL from last season. Lawson, Lotulelei and Phillips. At DT they even lost a prime backup at in Vince Taylor. So it's not really that much of a surprise that they're struggling badly.

👍🏻 Yeah, 3 different pieces seem to be the difference.  Prior to star opting opt, I thought we were better off. I felt, essentially trading phillips and Shaq for Addison, Jefferson and Butler was a nice upgrade.  But star opting out changed everything and we didn’t fill his void.  Big mistake 
 

Jefferson is just about = phillips.  I feel Addison is a better pass rusher than Shaq, but Shaq is better vs the run.  Star >> Butler because he actually plays the 1 tech, something Butler hasn’t really done.  

[klos63]

On 10/19/2020 at 5:16 PM, Southtown Tommy said:

Keep Zimmer in the lineup and rotate Oliver to DE. They are getting little production there - couldn't hurt.

It could probably hurt a lot.

[vincec]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

👍🏻 Yeah, 3 different pieces seem to be the difference.  Prior to star opting opt, I thought we were better off. I felt, essentially trading phillips and Shaq for Addison, Jefferson and Butler was a nice upgrade.  But star opting out changed everything and we didn’t fill his void.  Big mistake 
 

Jefferson is just about = phillips.  I feel Addison is a better pass rusher than Shaq, but Shaq is better vs the run.  Star >> Butler because he actually plays the 1 tech, something Butler hasn’t really done.  

The difference between Jefferson and Phillips is that Jefferson can't really play DT full time, despite how he was billed. It's obvious to me that he's just a guy who you kick inside in passing situations but that frequently gets steamrolled on running plays. I agree that Addison and Phillips are roughly equal, but unfortunately teams are running it at the Bills and as you state, that's Shaq's strength and not Addisons.

Edited October 29, 2020 by vincec

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, vincec said:

The difference between Jefferson and Phillips is that Jefferson can't really play DT full time, despite how he was billed. It's obvious to me that he's just a guy who you kick inside in passing situations but that frequently gets steamrolled on running plays. I agree that Addison and Phillips are roughly equal, but unfortunately teams are running it at the Bills and as you state, that's Shaq's strength and not Addisons.

I think he’s fine at DT, but just the 3 tech.  We had him playing 1 tech, which he was completely overmatched.  

[Thurman#1]

On 10/20/2020 at 9:10 AM, bills6969 said:

In Zimmer’s short time on the field, he had 3 more tackles and 1 TFL. Oliver is a waste of space and frankly, is looking like a bust.

 

 

 

Bwah ha ha ha ha. 

 

Oh, this is so precious.

 

I feel like I did watching my little two year old fall into a mud puddle as she tried to walk for the first time.