Frazier’s Gotta Be Fired

[sullim4]

It is just one game... however the defense has been a problem the entire season.  Star and Lorax might be a part of it, and losing Milano and White didn't help last night either.

 

But there are a couple things that have emerged as patterns that are worrisome to me.  You can wager on almost every play to see Hughes overpursue and end up in the backfield, with the quarterback or running back several yards away from him.  Jerry doesn't have the speed anymore to catch up and it's painfully evident that one of his few moves is to just run around the offensive lineman into no mans land.  Our linebacking corps, particularly Edmunds, might as well not even be on the field.  Poyer and Hyde have been making way too many tackles that Edmunds should be making which is allowing 3-4 yard gains to turn into 7-8 yard chunks.

 

But the intangible thing I don't see on defense this season is hard hitting aggressiveness.  We were completely flat footed last night and frankly I haven't seen the defense fired up at all in any of the five games we've seen.  The offense, on the other hand, has had a ton of energy and aggressiveness.  It was like night and day watching Tennessee hit our guys on offense compared to the anemic attempts we were making at stopping their offense.

 

McD needs to lay into this unit and get some fire in the belly there.  White and Milano can only carry us so far.  If we want to go deep into the playoffs, Edmunds really needs to step up and start leading the defense.  Frasier should only be relieved of his duties if he cannot get that aggressiveness back and/or has a disagreement in philosophy with McD, and I think he at least has the season to do that.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

People literally think that he's taken play calling away from him half a dozen times or something

 

But literally on record it's happened once in 4 years

that is not what I said.  
 

I said enough times 
 

Not half a dozen. 
 

but spin away 

 

To some once “officially” taken over  could be enough 

Edited October 14, 2020 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

that is not what I said.  
 

I said enough times 
 

Not half a dozen. 
 

but spin away 

 

This is honestly nothing to do with you shady. I have no problem tagging people that I'm talking about lol

 

I've lots of friends who thinks we've pulled play calling duties from Frazier every time the defense has a less than stellar performance.  And think McDermott must be calling the plays when they pick it up

 

I do talk football all day with a magnitude of people not just here

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

This is honestly nothing to do with you shady. I have no problem tagging people that I'm talking about lol

 

I've lots of friends who thinks we've pulled play calling duties from Frazier every time the defense has a less than stellar performance.  And think McDermott must be calling the plays when they pick it up

 

I do talk football all day with a magnitude of people not just here

 

 

apologies then. 
 

the declaration was in 2018 but the questions still remain 

 

Apologies agin for Buffalo Rumblings as a source 

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/platform/amp/2020/10/7/21504323/buffalo-bills-defensive-coordinator-leslie-frazier-to-continue-calling-plays

 

Despite a surprisingly rough start for the defense, McDermott gave the nod to Frazier. The Bills rank 20th in opponent yards per game, giving up a whopping 381.2 with a quarter of the regular season in the books.

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[Buffalo716]

Just now, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

apologies then. 
 

the declaration was in 2018 but the questions still remain 

 

Apologies agin for Buffalo Rumblings aa a source 

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/platform/amp/2020/10/7/21504323/buffalo-bills-defensive-coordinator-leslie-frazier-to-continue-calling-plays

 

Despite a surprisingly rough start for the defense, McDermott gave the nod to Frazier. The Bills rank 20th in opponent yards per game, giving up a whopping 381.2 with a quarter of the regular season in the books.

 

I have no doubt that McDermott can call a better defensive game than Frazier.. 

 

But head coach, coordinator relationships are very unique, and the second there's any strain in them they usually go sour quick

 

McDermott has been good to Frazier since we've been here, and that's probably given Frazier quiet confidence since he got fired as a head coach

 

They both worked and learned under the legend Jim Johnson, and have similar philosophies about the game of football

 

So McDermott definitely has trust in Frazier and his abilities, they don't try putting square pegs into round holes

 

Now they need to take another page out of Jim Johnson's book, and become a little less predictable

[Beast]

Frazier didn't forget how to gameplan and call defenses this off-season.

 

Firing him would be stupid.

[Big Gun]

37 minutes ago, Beast said:

Frazier didn't forget how to gameplan and call defenses this off-season.

 

Firing him would be stupid.

Then hes just not very good at it.

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

21 hours ago, corta765 said:

Enough of enough with the defense. I get injuries happen and they were playing short handed. But the overall scope of this season the defense has been an embarrassment and a shell of last year. They look lost regularly, unprepared, and their situational football is atrocious. The amount of 3rd and longs all season that keep being converted is unreal.

 

Right now the Bills are behind KC TEN BAL NE PIT in terms of ranking in conference. All of those teams have defenses that will do better and unless Allen and the offense is literally perfect game in game out we’re toast against the big boys.

 

Fire Frazier let McD take back play calling and send a firm message to the defense this isn’t good enough. I truly don’t believe anything else will send a strong enough message they don’t have the leaders like Zo or Kyle to get these guys in line.

He should be fired now this idiot is going to cost us the season.

[Rc2catch]

I asked earlier and never really seen anything about it, where the heck is Siran Neal? Was he active? I find it hard to believe as bad as were playing that kid can’t get a rotational snap. I don’t expect him to tackle Henry but his speed seems missed out there 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 10/13/2020 at 10:01 PM, Buffalo716 said:

To be honest our zone defense has been getting picked apart all season

Sometimes you need to rely on your guys jamming wide receivers and disrupting there route

Press coverage is the easiest skill for an NFL corner, and you have to believe your defensive line will get home within 15 yards

The book is out how to attack McDermott's defense in all situations. They're going to need to rescheme some things

McDermott's MO for 4 years has been press coverage on 3rd down and long, not just tonight

 

Well, last night the DL sure wasn't getting home

 

I just listened to Frazier's presser.  I know one of McD's watchwords is "Calm Breeds Calm", and of course a coach is under no obligation to respond to press questions honestly.  But Man, That Guy.  If he were a sailboat, his sails be luffing for sure.

 

It's all about, I hate to say it, but kind of making excuses for his players.  They're new to playing together they haven't built that awareness of what the guys they're playing with are going to do yet.  They're close, they just need a little more time.  Ed Oliver - he hurt his knee, he's been playing with a brace, he just needs a little more time to go back to being a difference maker.  Edmunds, he's playing his way back from injury, we need him out there as he is but he's not able to bring that physicality yet.  He'll get there.

 

Now maybe what he says in the meeting room with the door shut is different.  But I hear no accountability from himself - McDermott even implied there were poor defensive play calls ("couple of play calls we'd like back").  McDermott also sounded sickened and even appalled by how the D played, he said he didn't get much sleep and he took it very personally.  Daboll has talked about needing to be sure the players are put in the right position with the right plays drawn up to fix the run game.

 

You say they better change up their scheme on D.  I hear no awareness of that at all from Frazier. 

 

He says they have the right player personnel on the field to get it done.  They just need a little more time.

 

Again, he has no obligation to speak the truth to the press.  And I take the point that in Game 5, "Don't Over react"

 

He's the coach whose press conferences I personally find most frustrating.  He just smiles and says they need a bit more time.

 

Note that I'm not buying into the "must fire Frazier" thing, just airing a bit of frustration.

 

 

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, last night the DL sure wasn't getting home

 

I just listened to Frazier's presser.  I know one of McD's watchwords is "Calm Breeds Calm", and of course a coach is under no obligation to respond to press questions honestly.

But Man, That Guy.

 

It's all about, I hate to say it, but kind of making excuses for his players.  They're new to playing together they haven't built that awareness of what the guys they're playing with are going to do yet.  They're close, they just need a little more time.  Ed Oliver - he hurt his knee, he's been playing with a brace, he just needs a little more time to go back to being a difference maker.  Edmunds, he's playing his way back from injury, we need him out there as he is but he's not able to bring that physicality yet.  He'll get there.

 

Now maybe what he says in the meeting room with the door shut is different.  But I hear no accountability from himself - McDermott even implied there were poor defensive play calls ("couple of play calls we'd like back").  McDermott also sounded sickened and even appalled by how the D played, he said he didn't get much sleep and he took it very personally.  Daboll has talked about needing to be sure the players are put in the right position with the right plays drawn up to fix the run game.

 

You say they better change up their scheme on D.  I hear no awareness of that at all from Frazier. 

 

He says they have the right player personnel on the field to get it done.  They just need a little more time.

 

Again, he has no obligation to speak the truth to the press.  And I take the point that in Game 5, "Don't Over react"

 

He's the coach whose press conferences I personally find most frustrating.  He just smiles and says they need a bit more time.

 

Note that I'm not buying into the "must fire Frazier" thing, just airing a bit of frustration.

 

 

 

You mad, bro?

 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, last night the DL sure wasn't getting home

 

I just listened to Frazier's presser.  I know one of McD's watchwords is "Calm Breeds Calm", and of course a coach is under no obligation to respond to press questions honestly.

But Man, That Guy.

 

It's all about, I hate to say it, but kind of making excuses for his players.  They're new to playing together they haven't built that awareness of what the guys they're playing with are going to do yet.  They're close, they just need a little more time.  Ed Oliver - he hurt his knee, he's been playing with a brace, he just needs a little more time to go back to being a difference maker.  Edmunds, he's playing his way back from injury, we need him out there as he is but he's not able to bring that physicality yet.  He'll get there.

 

Now maybe what he says in the meeting room with the door shut is different.  But I hear no accountability from himself - McDermott even implied there were poor defensive play calls ("couple of play calls we'd like back").  McDermott also sounded sickened and even appalled by how the D played, he said he didn't get much sleep and he took it very personally.  Daboll has talked about needing to be sure the players are put in the right position with the right plays drawn up to fix the run game.

 

You say they better change up their scheme on D.  I hear no awareness of that at all from Frazier. 

 

He says they have the right player personnel on the field to get it done.  They just need a little more time.

 

Again, he has no obligation to speak the truth to the press.

 

He's the coach whose press conferences I personally find most frustrating.  He just smiles and says they need a bit more time.

 

Note that I'm not buying into the "must fire Frazier" thing.

 

 

 

In a way kind of agree with him and what you said Hapless. Maybe as well it is coach speak and have MeDermott answer the questions? Who knows. 

[TwistofFate]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, last night the DL sure wasn't getting home

 

I just listened to Frazier's presser.  I know one of McD's watchwords is "Calm Breeds Calm", and of course a coach is under no obligation to respond to press questions honestly.  But Man, That Guy.  If he were a sailboat, his sails be luffing for sure.

 

It's all about, I hate to say it, but kind of making excuses for his players.  They're new to playing together they haven't built that awareness of what the guys they're playing with are going to do yet.  They're close, they just need a little more time.  Ed Oliver - he hurt his knee, he's been playing with a brace, he just needs a little more time to go back to being a difference maker.  Edmunds, he's playing his way back from injury, we need him out there as he is but he's not able to bring that physicality yet.  He'll get there.

 

Now maybe what he says in the meeting room with the door shut is different.  But I hear no accountability from himself - McDermott even implied there were poor defensive play calls ("couple of play calls we'd like back").  McDermott also sounded sickened and even appalled by how the D played, he said he didn't get much sleep and he took it very personally.  Daboll has talked about needing to be sure the players are put in the right position with the right plays drawn up to fix the run game.

 

You say they better change up their scheme on D.  I hear no awareness of that at all from Frazier. 

 

He says they have the right player personnel on the field to get it done.  They just need a little more time.

 

Again, he has no obligation to speak the truth to the press.  And I take the point that in Game 5, "Don't Over react"

 

He's the coach whose press conferences I personally find most frustrating.  He just smiles and says they need a bit more time.

 

Note that I'm not buying into the "must fire Frazier" thing, just airing a bit of frustration.

 

 

I just watched as well and I actually took a lot of positives from it.  We have added a lot of new faces sprinkled through the Defense and with virtually no off season its pretty hard to put it all together.  Start throwing injuries in the mix and it can get ugly very quickly. 

 

Dline play is not what we expected, and we do need a big time edge rusher, but it makes sense when he talked about limiting line changes and keeping the guys who were the best with the most continuity out there. 

 

There's no doubt the front and back side are not in sync and playing as a unit. Its clear from last night's game which looked like they weren't even on the same page. 

 

The defense hasn't looked the best thus far this year, but last night was horrendous....but, we were missing some pretty important players. Sure, one could argue it's the difference in talent, but I never really considered the personnel groupings as a major issue until it was brought up in Fraziers presser. 

 

As far as play calling, there are play calls coaches want back every week. 

 

I'm going to wait and see how this team rebounds on Monday Night.  All in all, I like Frazier and think he's a pretty darn good coach, last night just wasn't our night...in any phase. 

[Buffalo716]

41 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, last night the DL sure wasn't getting home

 

I just listened to Frazier's presser.  I know one of McD's watchwords is "Calm Breeds Calm", and of course a coach is under no obligation to respond to press questions honestly.  But Man, That Guy.  If he were a sailboat, his sails be luffing for sure.

 

It's all about, I hate to say it, but kind of making excuses for his players.  They're new to playing together they haven't built that awareness of what the guys they're playing with are going to do yet.  They're close, they just need a little more time.  Ed Oliver - he hurt his knee, he's been playing with a brace, he just needs a little more time to go back to being a difference maker.  Edmunds, he's playing his way back from injury, we need him out there as he is but he's not able to bring that physicality yet.  He'll get there.

 

Now maybe what he says in the meeting room with the door shut is different.  But I hear no accountability from himself - McDermott even implied there were poor defensive play calls ("couple of play calls we'd like back").  McDermott also sounded sickened and even appalled by how the D played, he said he didn't get much sleep and he took it very personally.  Daboll has talked about needing to be sure the players are put in the right position with the right plays drawn up to fix the run game.

 

You say they better change up their scheme on D.  I hear no awareness of that at all from Frazier. 

 

He says they have the right player personnel on the field to get it done.  They just need a little more time.

 

Again, he has no obligation to speak the truth to the press.  And I take the point that in Game 5, "Don't Over react"

 

He's the coach whose press conferences I personally find most frustrating.  He just smiles and says they need a bit more time.

 

Note that I'm not buying into the "must fire Frazier" thing, just airing a bit of frustration.

 

 

I don't think they necessarily have to change up the scheme

 

The scheme is fine. Their play calling within it has became predictable

 

I think they need to change up their play calling within the scheme to confuse defenses a little bit more because what used to be confusing is now routine to other defenses

 

Instead of calling what they usually do on first down call what they call on third down on first down

[nucci]

after 1 loss we want coaches fired....Brilliant

[dave mcbride]

13 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I have no doubt that McDermott can call a better defensive game than Frazier.. 

 

But head coach, coordinator relationships are very unique, and the second there's any strain in them they usually go sour quick

 

McDermott has been good to Frazier since we've been here, and that's probably given Frazier quiet confidence since he got fired as a head coach

 

They both worked and learned under the legend Jim Johnson, and have similar philosophies about the game of football

 

So McDermott definitely has trust in Frazier and his abilities, they don't try putting square pegs into round holes

 

Now they need to take another page out of Jim Johnson's book, and become a little less predictable

People forget that McDermott had a great D in 2015 in Carolina, but saw that D suffer a big decline in 2016: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2016.htm.

 

Why? The loss of key players (norman, who was elite in 2015) and injuries. Keuchly missed close to half of the season. On D, personnel matters more than anything else by far.

6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I don't think they necessarily have to change up the scheme

 

The scheme is fine. Their play calling within it has became predictable

 

I think they need to change up their play calling within the scheme to confuse defenses a little bit more because what used to be confusing is now routine to other defenses

 

Instead of calling what they usually do on first down call what they call on third down on first down

I think the top issue by far is talent and the way refs are calling games. The Bills are on pace for their worst defensive season ever, but they are middle of the pack in terms of yards and points allowed.

Edited October 15, 2020 by dave mcbride

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

that is not what I said.  
 

I said enough times 
 

Not half a dozen. 
 

but spin away 

 

To some once “officially” taken over  could be enough 

 

OK, so what did YOU mean by "enough times"? 

 

If YOU meant "once", why not just say "once"?

 

If you didn't mean "once", what did you mean?

 

C'Mon man, calling someone else out for "spin" when they take a reasonable stab at what you mean by "enough times" whilst omitting to "Man up" and say what you mean, that's weak sauce IMO.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK, so what did YOU mean by "enough times"? 

 

If YOU meant "once", why not just say "once"?

 

If you didn't mean "once", what did you mean?

 

C'Mon man, calling someone else out for "spin" when they take a reasonable stab at what you mean by "enough times" whilst omitting to "Man up" and say what you mean, that's weak sauce IMO.

 

enough times  like after every huge blowout   ie  18 or more points 

 

2018 Twice is September - Ravens (with Flacco) and Packers,  then 3 weeks later blowouts in 3 straight weeks against the Colts (with A Luck), Pats and Bears (with Mitchell Trubisky) 

 

2019 Eagles

2020 Titans

 

 

Poor half time adjustments. 

The Bills lost Saq and Phillips.  Two good players.  Is it really because of their loss and youth?  

Ergo my faith in Frazier is weak. 

[TheFunPolice]

Frazier does not need to be fired. The defense had some key guys out and also had a bad game. 

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

enough times  like after every huge blowout   ie  18 or more points 

 

2018 Twice is September - Ravens (with Flacco) and Packers,  then 3 weeks later blowouts in 3 straight weeks against the Colts (with A Luck), Pats and Bears (with Mitchell Trubisky) 

 

2019 Eagles

2020 Titans

 

 

Poor half time adjustments. 

The Bills lost Saq and Phillips.  Two good players.  Is it really because of their loss and youth?  

Ergo my faith in Frazier is weak. 

 

Well the 2018 team stunk.  Peterman and Derek Anderson started in 4 of those blowouts.  The packers game was an early Allen shellshock game where he just got sacked a ton.

 

2019 Eagles - they ran the ball all day in a windy game.  

 

This year - the dline is clearly not gelled yet.  I don't know that you just start firing people at 4-1 though.