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The End of the Lamar Jackson Era


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It's not the end, our QB is just better. Ravens got some great things going, they just need more options at WR. Brown is kind of a bust and Willie Snead is, well pesky and pretty awesome considering his situation but he's still just Willie Snead. They've got a great D-line, decent O-line, great backfield, A+ TE in 25 year old Mark Andrews. They need a Diggs and Beasley now, basically. Bills beat a good team tonight. The Ravens should be bugging us for years to come.

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I've said since the beginning of the year that I'm not buying the Lamar Jackson hype, and I'm not buying the Kyler Murray hype, either.   I know they are really special athletes, and they're a couple

Say it with me..."We don't have to tear down Lamar, to prop Josh up".   Lamar is a phenomenal player and deserves his place at the "elite of the elite" table. Josh is well on his way to earn

Eh. I would be pissed if JA had a clunker and the rest of the league said, see! I told you he wasn't any good! I don't think we should do the same to LJ.    Tonight seemed as much about LJ h

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1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I said from the moment he was drafted that unless he turns into a pocket qb he will eventually suffer the same fate as Vick & RG3. He's not built for the long haul. 

 

Ehn if he turns into end of career Vick (Philly) I'd take that as a win for Baltimore. Once he learned to play QB in a west coast spread system like Reid ran, Vick was a solid QB. Now, if teams start following our defensive blueprint will he fade away? Last year and this year we took away his run game, and in the conditions today he clearly needed that running ability. If he can use the pocket mobility he was showing last night and throw from the pocket he may be fine. Baltimore needs a west coast scheme though I think for him to be successful

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Jackson needs to be able to throw on the boundaries. He can't. The Bills showed how to beat him last season and just did it again. You'll see a lot more of it next season until he can make those deep throws on the sides. 

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1 hour ago, Nelius said:

It's not the end, our QB is just better. Ravens got some great things going, they just need more options at WR. Brown is kind of a bust and Willie Snead is, well pesky and pretty awesome considering his situation but he's still just Willie Snead. They've got a great D-line, decent O-line, great backfield, A+ TE in 25 year old Mark Andrews. They need a Diggs and Beasley now, basically. Bills beat a good team tonight. The Ravens should be bugging us for years to come.

 

They need to hope for missed assignments broken plays and blown coverages.

 

If the Bills can do this to him the AFC North will be using this as their roadmap :)

 

Good Luck Lamar you needed to work on your passing skills. 

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29 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Jackson needs to be able to throw on the boundaries. He can't. The Bills showed how to beat him last season and just did it again. You'll see a lot more of it next season until he can make those deep throws on the sides. 


I've been saying this all week.  They had a great game plan using Murphy and Epenesa as a third base LB.  That was the perfect plan to bring out Lamar’s flaws.  He’s had his worst two performances in two years against us.  TN was able to steal our plan last year, but they couldn’t pull it off this year.

 

Finally, this is off topic, but John Harbaugh was pure class after the game.  I really like that guy.

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While I think that the wind helped us, in a weird way, making passing so much more difficult, and possibly being a factor in the botched snaps for the Ravens, the bottom line for the Ravens, is that as good as they can be in the run game, they really don't have a plan B when it doesn't work.

 

Once the Bills got ahead, it was hard for them to get back into it, because they don't use all the field, with their only real weapons in the passing game, being Andrews and Brown. Admittedly the pick 6 happened at about the best time for us, but with limited options in the passing game, they were a lot easier to defend in that respect. Taron was just sitting there, and wasn't having to cover anyone. (Still an awesome play mind)

 

The Ravens might still be capable of bulldozing their way to the playoffs for a few years yet, but they will struggle to progress further, without adding better passing elements to their offense - including pass protection, as they weren't very good there.

 

Lamar has the arm to make all the throws, but he's not being called upon to do so, so it becomes increasingly difficult to get right, when it's needed.

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8 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

 

 

???

I was wrong. It was not hard to type that.

7 hours ago, Beast said:


Come on out and take your whooping like a man!

I always do. I’m not a millennial with no sense of self awareness when I’m wrong. 

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I was so tired of hearing the name "Lamar Jackson" last night. The announcers must have said it a thousand times. Just listening to them you'd think he'd had a monster game throwing at least 3 TD's and running for a couple more, not leading a team to a THREE point game. You should never root for a player yo be injured and I really hope he gets well soon, but I can't deny it was nice to not having to listen to the announcers constantly talking about him anymore. Last night he wasn't the star of the show.

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When Josh scrambles (laterally or forward, when he goes backwards it's usually a disaster), I now expect him to make a daring downfield pass.  Usually in a spot only our guy can make the play.  When Lamar scrambles, I only worry he makes it to open field (despite his excellent across the body throw to Brown in the 3rd).  I agree with those who say he's one dimensional:  though he's a decent pocket passer, his style can be corralled by disciplined defense.

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Lamar Jackson is a great QB who showed his lack of passing proficiency this season.

 

He'll be fine and he WILL be back. Count on it. This is merely the beginning of Josh Allen vs. Lamar Jackson. I love it. Bring it on.

We want Josh Allen to be the best? Then he has to battle against some of the best. To unleash the best from Josh. Even some of the best will fall and come back stronger.

 

What an exciting era.

 

I wouldn't crucify Lamar Jackson. I'm looking at Roman their offensive coordinator first. I fire him immediately. Then look at their defense before I even arrive to Lamar Jackson.

 

I give Lamar 2 more seasons to have him work on his passing. I'm confident he'll do it.

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6 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Lamar Jackson is a great QB who showed his lack of passing proficiency this season.

 

He'll be fine and he WILL be back. Count on it. This is merely the beginning of Josh Allen vs. Lamar Jackson. I love it. Bring it on.

We want Josh Allen to be the best? Then he has to battle against some of the best. To unleash the best from Josh. Even some of the best will fall and come back stronger.

 

What an exciting era.

 

I wouldn't crucify Lamar Jackson. I'm looking at Roman their offensive coordinator first. I fire him immediately. Then look at their defense before I even arrive to Lamar Jackson.

 

I give Lamar 2 more seasons to have him work on his passing. I'm confident he'll do it.

im somewhere in the middle. I dont think he will ever be a proficient passer. they absolutely can win with him and even the super bowl. wont be a multi year super bowl winner. they are a 2-3 TE / RBs out the back field team. Only had andrews this year and dobbins is a rookie (has some drops). They just need a #1a WR (draft cuz dont think FA want to go to a run first team). 

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It was the limitations of the Ravens passing game on show all over again. Their style will allow them to win 10-12 games most years. A lot of teams just can't stand up to what they can do. 

 

But look at their 6 losses this year - Kansas City, Tennessee, New England, Pittsburgh twice (though arguably the second one can be ignored given the covid) and now Buffalo. Against confident teams who are not intimidated and are well coached and do not allow the complexity of their run game to beat them Baltimore has a ceiling.

 

A lot of that is Lamar but it isn't all Lamar. Their weapons in the pass game are sub par. They were running the corpse of Dez Bryant deep last night! But more crucially their line is not built to pass block. How many times this year have we said about the Bills line "they can pass protect but they ain't blowing anyone off the ball in the run game". That is intention the Bills line is built for a passing team. Equally it is intentional for the Ravens their line is built to run the football. But you can't serve two masters and with Stanley on IR and Yanda retired the limitations of the rest as pass blockers were fully on display. How many teams have the Bills got pressure with 4 against this year? The Jets, the first Dolphins game, the Chargers... that is about it. Yes we brought some nice nickel blitzes and linebacker blitzes last night but we won with 4 a lot too. 

 

And then there is Lamar. He made a great throw early on that 3rd and 18 conversion but the Bills were daring him to make those tight window throws on passing downs and calculating he would not make enough if them. A calculation that proved correct. 

 

The Lamar era still is not over. They will still win a lot of regular season football games the next few years. But when it becomes good vs good in the playoffs? The Lamar era might look very much like it has so far. Not quite up to it.

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13 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Lamar Jackson is a great QB who showed his lack of passing proficiency this season.

 

He'll be fine and he WILL be back. Count on it. This is merely the beginning of Josh Allen vs. Lamar Jackson. I love it. Bring it on.

We want Josh Allen to be the best? Then he has to battle against some of the best. To unleash the best from Josh. Even some of the best will fall and come back stronger.

 

What an exciting era.

 

I wouldn't crucify Lamar Jackson. I'm looking at Roman their offensive coordinator first. I fire him immediately. Then look at their defense before I even arrive to Lamar Jackson.

 

I give Lamar 2 more seasons to have him work on his passing. I'm confident he'll do it.

Yeah, two years ago I thought Ravens would tailor to Jackson's strengths while evolving his passing game and ability to make reads but it's gone nowhere.  That's a fail on the coaching staff to be content not to develop him.

Quite the contrast to the Bills and Allen.

 

I do believe Jackson's fully capable, he's a smart kid on a top-notch coached team.  Hope they figure it out for future epic QB battles!

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23 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Lamar Jackson is a great QB who showed his lack of passing proficiency this season.

 

He'll be fine and he WILL be back. Count on it. This is merely the beginning of Josh Allen vs. Lamar Jackson. I love it. Bring it on.

We want Josh Allen to be the best? Then he has to battle against some of the best. To unleash the best from Josh. Even some of the best will fall and come back stronger.

 

What an exciting era.

 

I wouldn't crucify Lamar Jackson. I'm looking at Roman their offensive coordinator first. I fire him immediately. Then look at their defense before I even arrive to Lamar Jackson.

 

I give Lamar 2 more seasons to have him work on his passing. I'm confident he'll do it.

But the talking heads said it was:

josh v Darnold

josh v Mahomes

josh v Tua

josh v Lamar

 

i guess it’s josh v the world

BRING IT ON!!!

 

My moneys on Josh

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7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Center has been a problem for the Ravens all season.  Their starter, Matt Skura, got benched in Nov. after struggling with the snap.  Obviously Mekari has had his own adventures.

 

 

You aren't, some others are.  I agree overall that right now, the Ravens passing game is limited and represents a gap in their other teams can exploit

 

 

It was commented when Roman was with the Bills, by some former QBs (not sure who, but I seem to remember more than one), that there were design limitations to Roman's passing game and that what was going on with the QB didn't always match what was going on downfield.  I think this is a reasonable question.


It was not just while he was here.  Roman is a brilliant run play designer, but his passing attack and design is way below average.  Several teams have had to go the multi-OC route with Roman calling the plays and designing the run plays and a true passing game coordinator designing and set-up passing plays.  The problem with that is unlike a guy like Daboll that seamlessly can intertwine the 2 - when the run and pass game are designed separately- they do not have the same look and feel.

 

I think Roman is very limited, but I also think Jackson is limited.  He just does not have enough experience (or perhaps ability) to read the defense and make plays.  You can see just how uncomfortable he was in the pocket.  When you mix that with poor play design - it limits the team.

 

The athletic ability of Jackson is through the roof and you can really see that in his runs and some escape ability, but what you do not see is what Josh added this year - which is that calm presence in the pocket just knowing he has answers.  So of that is the QB and some of that is the OC - not giving him full control and the answers.

 

If I am Baltimore - I think you have to move on from Roman and find out can Jackson improve in the pocket before you sign the mega deal.  Not that he isn’t a great player, but they must have questions about his ceiling and his growth especially when you get to games in the playoffs where you need to make that play.  Against Buffalo he had no plays.  His big play against Tennessee was a long run - not a pass play.  That would worry me, but it is not insurmountable as that was JA in year 1.  The problem is they may have to take some lumps to find out what Jackson’s ceiling is.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Shouldn't be a problem

 

Allen:

2018 Games 1-6      61.8 rating

2018 Games 7-12    72.6 rating

2019 Games 13-20  82.9 rating

2019 Games 21-27  88.8 rating

2020 Games 29-36 102.4 rating

2020 Games 40-46 111.6 rating

2021 ???

 

OK but the press isn't breaking it down by the half season, they are just looking at full seasons.  They want to see some level of sustainability.  Plus too there is a ceiling for rating so to expect further improvement will be difficult.  Not that staying the same would be an issue, but even that factoring in the level he's playing at right now could be difficult due to injuries, dropped passes, bad luck, etc.  At this point we don't even know what next years roster will look like.

 

He has to overcome a bad, but somewhat justified narrative from his first two years, so will take more than one season to win over everyone.

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36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

It was the limitations of the Ravens passing game on show all over again. Their style will allow them to win 10-12 games most years. A lot of teams just can't stand up to what they can do. 

 

But look at their 6 losses this year - Kansas City, Tennessee, New England, Pittsburgh twice (though arguably the second one can be ignored given the covid) and now Buffalo. Against confident teams who are not intimidated and are well coached and do not allow the complexity of their run game to beat them Baltimore has a ceiling.

 

A lot of that is Lamar but it isn't all Lamar. Their weapons in the pass game are sub par. They were running the corpse of Dez Bryant deep last night! But more crucially their line is not built to pass block. How many times this year have we said about the Bills line "they can pass protect but they ain't blowing anyone off the ball in the run game". That is intention the Bills line is built for a passing team. Equally it is intentional for the Ravens their line is built to run the football. But you can't serve two masters and with Stanley on IR and Yanda retired the limitations of the rest as pass blockers were fully on display. How many teams have the Bills got pressure with 4 against this year? The Jets, the first Dolphins game, the Chargers... that is about it. Yes we brought some nice nickel blitzes and linebacker blitzes last night but we won with 4 a lot too. 

 

And then there is Lamar. He made a great throw early on that 3rd and 18 conversion but the Bills were daring him to make those tight window throws on passing downs and calculating he would not make enough if them. A calculation that proved correct. 

 

The Lamar era still is not over. They will still win a lot of regular season football games the next few years. But when it becomes good vs good in the playoffs? The Lamar era might look very much like it has so far. Not quite up to it.


 

I think this is key - that entire team is built for strength and intimidation with running and stopping the run as the foundation.  That was the key to the NFL - 20 years ago, but that is their strength and they play to it as well as any team in the NFL - it means they will continue to show success for years to come - especially in the regular season where they play with a just about unmatched intensity.

 

I think the OLs pass rushing struggles and the fact that the Bills could get pressure with 4 (and not even 4 rushing all out - they played games to drive lineman back and compress the pocket. It was not all out attacking on pass plays they still tried to contain - which is all the more damning.  
 

What I am not sure about is how good or bad their WRs are.  I think that Brown obviously has talent that they simply can not use in this scheme.  Sneed is a big body guy makes a bunch of plays and seems to get open - again he is a running game supporter and seems like a good compliment.  Dez to me was a stupid signing, but I think they were looking for a WR post up guy like another TE more than a true WR.  
 

They recognize who they are and sign and draft fit players better than just about anyone.  The problem with that has always been course correction is tough because your guys really fit what you do and are not necessarily good at changing the course of the team.  Their strength is a run blocking OL, big athletic TEs, and a powerful group of running backs and a run option style QB.  That will be hard to shift to a 2020 style offense without some major change.

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We all know Jackson is an exceptional athlete, one of the most dynamic the game has ever seen. There is no denying that. He's won an MVP and has all kinds of accolades. If Baltimore is trying to develop Lamar as a QB their best bet may be to get away from Roman. His schemes are vanilla in the passing game and they haven't really done anything to help him grow at the position. You stop Lamar from running and you stop the Ravens. That has been the case the last 3 years in the playoffs. Chargers, Titans last year, and the Bills yesterday all pressured him, hit him continually, and stopped him from beating them running the football. Someone is going to have to be brought in who will help the young man develop mentally at the position. A person who still runs an RPO style offense, but with a more layered passing scheme so he has multiple options over one or two reads then run. He would also benefit if the Ravens got him a true #1 like we did for Josh with Diggs. Hollywood Brown is not Tyreke Hill, but more like a younger John Brown. They need to get Lamar a go-to guy. There are many questions still surrounding the Ravens. One of them is does Lamar have the mental capacity to be more than just a weapon? What are they going to do with the offense? What are they willing to do to build around him on the offensive side of the ball? We'll see how it plays out over the next couple of years, but it's obvious that the way they have handled things the last three will not get them to their ultimate goal. 

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