The Decline of Hyde

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Are you watching tonight’s game? The Ravens’ defense is excellent, and they are being completely shredded. This is today’s NFL, when good defenses facing elite offenses consistently fail. That is the sort of offense the Bills’ D had to face yesterday.

 

the Pats’ D is probably the best in the league, and they were eviscerated by Russell Wilson.

 

 

The Pats D was the best last year. Major losses have left them in the general area of very good but not dominant. They're no Baltimore, Chicago, Steelers or Niners, IMO. 

 

God, why am I still here?

Edited September 29, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Richard Noggin]

6 hours ago, Jerboski said:

The defense has struggled, i dont get everyone mocking the guy for bringing a question surrounded by some factual stats

 

With the way the defense is playing this feels like a post that should be fair game to have a real discussion 

 

Okay, I'll bite. 

 

Do YOU see Hyde's individual performance falling off as dramatically as those selected stats (don't really) suggest? Can you share some all-22 footage of Hyde getting beat? Or some expert analysis that echoes this cherry-picked stat-based argument? 

 

I'm genuinely willing to take a closer look if prompted with compelling evidence (which goes for any of my preconceived notions in this life. We should ALL be eager to be proven wrong.)

 

If I had to generate a knee-jerk defense for Hyde's drop in those two statistical categories, I'd suggest that Poyer has asserted himself as the more effective "box" safety, and Hyde has possibly improved as a true centerfielder. Where once they were virtually interchangeable, now they are perhaps more distinct in their strengths.  

 

4 hours ago, RunTheBall said:

The only problem I see on the D right now is the front seven, particularly the D lineman. They aren’t maintaining gap integrity, they are getting pushed around and our ends aren’t generating much pressure. I think there’s been a bit of a drop off in run stopping talent with the loss of Star and Shaq but McD was hoping to make up for it with improved pass rush from Addison and Jefferson and the return of Harry who has been average at best. I think this is more of a scheme problem than overall talent problem and McD/Frazier will get it fixed. 

 

Is it reasonable to point out a minor, yet glaring contradiction in your (bolded) argument?

Edited September 29, 2020 by Richard Noggin
just formatting and spacing

[Sherlock Holmes]

I mean I wouldn't mind bring Harrison Smith in here too...

[Chandler#81]

15 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

When Hyde first came to Buffalo, he was excellent.  Since that first season, there has been a pretty rapid decline.

 

2017: 13 Pass Defended, 5 Ints

2018: 5 Pass Defended, 2 Ints

2019: 2 Pass Defended, 1 Int

2020: 1 Pass Defended thus far.

 

When you take a look at his last 15 games (including Houston game), he has one pass defended, that's it.

 

He doesn't get sacks, and plays more of a FS role on this team.  That is awful for a guy that is supposed to be roaming in the secondary.

 

The only time I see Hyde on the field, is when he is making a tackle 15 yards down the field, or chasing a guy from behind.

 

It seems like a wasted position to me.  I would rather have a guy out there like Neal, who can cause havoc.  You don't need to be worried about getting beat over the top when you are applying more pressure.

 Rule #1: Never give a noob a pen.

🤦‍♂️

[Bookie Man]

I feel like Hyde is solid and probably has at least 1 year left playing at a fairly high level. Not sure he is resigned after his contract expires after next season. I was a big Jaquan Johnson fan when he was at Miami, I'm curious to see how he does if he gets an opportunity. 

[Chandler#81]

8 minutes ago, Raleigh • √eff said:

I feel like Hyde is solid and probably has at least 1 year left playing at a fairly high level. Not sure he is resigned after his contract expires after next season. I was a big Jaquan Johnson fan when he was at Miami, I'm curious to see how he does if he gets an opportunity. 

He IS solid. I think he’s hands down the best tackler on the team. Thus Safety. With Poyer and him basically interchangeable as a 2 Deep tandum, they don’t get a lot of traffic so they don’t have as many chances at PBUs

[RunTheBall]

6 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Is it reasonable to point out a minor, yet glaring contradiction in your (bolded) argument?

Very reasonable.  I should have phrased that better and said I think we can still be effective against the run even with a drop in run stopping talent with better adherence to the scheme. I’m confident McD and Frazier can get that improved. 

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Is Hyde playing at an All Pro or even a Pro Bowl level? No. Is he being paid like an All Pro or Pro Bowler? No. His play has fallen off, I agree... but his salary isn’t cumbersome.. i think you let him ride out his contract and let him walk.. Another safety in this mix next year wouldn’t surprise me.. nor would another DT or two nor would another LB or two.. think much of our problem, in my opinion, at least on defense is at DT.. they’re not doing their jobs well.. is it the new coach? is it the players??? I don’t know.. but Oliver, Butler, Phillips and Jefferson are doing our linebackers and safeties no favors...

 

The D tackle are doing their job very well in the pass game - Oliver, Jefferson and Butler at least. They are struggling a bit in the run game but that is because really they are all 3 techs. Butler has been our best run defender of the DTs thus far. Harrison Phillips has really struggled. Like really struggled.

 

But also we need our linebackers to hit their gaps. You need that even if you have a guy who can take on two blockers (although frankly Star didn't do that all that successfully anyway) but without it the linebacker lane discipline becomes even more important and it just isn't there at the moment. Edmunds continues to hit the wrong gap and Milano gets moved too easily. This is a discipline defense. If it can't play disciplined then it is in trouble because it is not and never has been a particularly splashy big play defense. Guys have to be in position to do their 1/11th and make a play. 

 

If there is a run stuffer out there the Bills think can help they should take a look at him. The question becomes at who's expense. They have 9 DL on the roster. They won't carry 10. Darryl Johnson was down this past week so maybe they think they can do without him but the lack of youth at the position long term makes that risky. The next most in danger would be Phillips IMO. He needs to improve and improve quickly. Because I think he is more on the bubble than most fans realise. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by GunnerBill

[machine gun kelly]

13 hours ago, ProcessAccepted said:

Man I really dislike some of the malarkey that people put on this board. 

 

There should be criteria for starting a new thread other than wanted to start one.

Im going to say this one more time.  I’ve held my tongue for awhile, but Jets 2020 has over a dozen avatars and if you notice once he was suspended and warned, he started creating avatar after avatar, starts threads almost daily as a passive aggressive person, and says It love Josh Allen or the Bills or McD, but.....

 

He’s doing it to tweak all of you and keep poking holes in this team.  Most of his posts of you notice are less than 1000 and they all have a common theme.  The best thing any of us can do is don’t respond OT these threads, and just let them die.  
 

Jets 2020, get a life.   I feel for Chandler and Hapless as it’s almost impossible to stop this malarkey.

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The D tackle are doing their job very well in the pass game - Oliver, Jefferson and Butler at least. They are struggling a bit in the run game but that is because really they are all 3 techs. Butler has been our best run defender of the DTs thus far. Harrison Phillips has really struggled. Like really struggled.

 

But also we need our linebackers to hit their gaps. You need that even if you have a guy who can take on two blockers (although frankly Star didn't do that all that successfully anyway) but without it the linebacker lane discipline becomes even more important and it just isn't there at the moment. Edmunds continues to hit the wrong gap and Milano gets moved too easily. This is a discipline defense. If it can't play disciplined then it is in trouble because it is not and never has been a particularly splashy big play defense. Guys have to be in position to do their 1/11th and make a play. 

 

If there is a run stuffer out there the Bills think can help they should take a look at him. The question becomes at who's expense. They have 9 DL on the roster. They won't carry 10. Darryl Johnson was down this past week so maybe they think they can do without him but the lack of youth at the position long term makes that risky. The next most in danger would be Phillips IMO. He needs to improve and improve quickly. Because I think he is more on the bubble than most fans realise. 

 

Bear with me, I’ve only had one cup of coffee this morning and I’m waiting for the caffeine to kick in... anyways... 

Gunner, I’m not going to deny that our LBs had a bad game....but I think our DTs were being pushed all over.. Not sure if this is a coaching issue or not... I suspect that it is... As far as Edmunds and Milano are concerned, I think they’re both playing hurt and it doesn’t help that they were going against a brilliant offensive mind in Sean McVay.. I highly respect him as a coach and I think before his career is over he’ll have a few rings.. I’m not willing to blow up our LBs after one bad game.. Edmunds already has a Pro Bowl under his belt and I think him and Milano will rebound... There is no doubt in my mind that Buffalo desperately needs another LB to add to the mix - but I do think our defense recovers.. I think here on and so forth that Buffalo’s identity will remain as an offensive minded team but I do think our defense will become a top 10 unit again.. I’ll admit that Milano and Edmunds leave more to be desired as run stuffers, but as pass defenders they’re very good.. there is a big issue going on in our interior DL... not sure if this is a coaching issue or if it’s the players.. I do notice that since we’ve added Eric Washington I’ve been completely unimpressed.. if our DL keeps letting RBs into the second level, injuries will start piling up in our LBs and secondary.. completely underwhelmed with Oliver and our other DTs... our DEs I thought have looked very good, so I guess if there is a silver lining in the whole thing it’d be that... Addison, Hughes and even Epenesa I thought had a good game.. think we just needa be patient and let McD work out the kinks... think we’ll be fine and I do think Eric Washington is a good coach but big, not small adjustments need to be made.. I think we’ll be fine.. No reason to panic just yet..

[Back2Buff]

So I read most of the responses in this thread, and lots of contradiction going on amongst people, which gets back to my original point.  It seems like a wasted spot on the team, like just a floater out there.  Again, this could be a scheme issue and not a Hyde issue, but the FS position on this team is useless right now.

 

I keep hearing he plays center field.  What's the point of him playing center field if he isn't going to be involved in any passing plays?  Is he out there just to get a tan?

 

I keep hearing that he is there so we don't get beat deep.  Teams don't need to throw deep on us when they can throw it underneath and just take off down the field.  Hyde is playing so far back, so teams are just throwing in front of him and doing whatever they want in space.

 

We are giving up way too much in the passing game, and this has been a constant theme with QBs that have any ounce of talent.  People see the numbers and just forget the fact we played QBs like Haskins, Allen, Mariota, Dalton, Hodges, etc.

 

I really feel one of our major issues is that we give up so much space in the middle of the field because we are so scared of giving up a deep ball.  This is now killing us in the run game too.  The % of a QB actually throwing an accurate ball deep is low.  Take your chances that the QB can actually throw the ball on target and tighten up closer to the line of scrimmage. 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

 

Bear with me, I’ve only had one cup of coffee this morning and I’m waiting for the caffeine to kick in... anyways... 

Gunner, I’m not going to deny that our LBs had a bad game....but I think our DTs were being pushed all over.. Not sure if this is a coaching issue or not... I suspect that it is... As far as Edmunds and Milano are concerned, I think they’re both playing hurt and it doesn’t help that they were going against a brilliant offensive mind in Sean McVay.. I highly respect him as a coach and I think before his career is over he’ll have a few rings.. I’m not willing to blow up our LBs after one bad game.. Edmunds already has a Pro Bowl under his belt and I think him and Milano will rebound... There is no doubt in my mind that Buffalo desperately needs another LB to add to the mix - but I do think our defense recovers.. I think here on and so forth that Buffalo’s identity will remain as an offensive minded team but I do think our defense will become a top 10 unit again.. I’ll admit that Milano and Edmunds leave more to be desired as run stuffers, but as pass defenders they’re very good.. there is a big issue going on in our interior DL... not sure if this is a coaching issue or if it’s the players.. I do notice that since we’ve added Eric Washington I’ve been completely unimpressed.. if our DL keeps letting RBs into the second level, injuries will start piling up in our LBs and secondary.. completely underwhelmed with Oliver and our other DTs... our DEs I thought have looked very good, so I guess if there is a silver lining in the whole thing it’d be that... Addison, Hughes and even Epenesa I thought had a good game.. think we just needa be patient and let McD work out the kinks... think we’ll be fine and I do think Eric Washington is a good coach but big, not small adjustments need to be made.. I think we’ll be fine.. No reason to panic just yet..

 

I don't disagree the DTs are getting run over. But that is because the Bills basically have three smaller penetrator types trying to do the job of playing the run. They are actually getting really good push in the pass game - even Sunday in the first half they were in Goff's face until the Rams established the run and backed them off a bit.

 

Essentially the problem in the run game is A) McDermott's scheme is primarily about stopping the pass which is why we have linebackers who are coverage guys rather than run stuffers. B) Three of our 4 DTs are 3 techs trying to stop the run. C) The one supposed 1 tech we have on the roster is just back from an ACL and is really struggling to find his previous performance level. 

 

So you can say "man the DTs are the problem" but it isn't as simple as that. The guys we are asking to play inside were brought here to get after the Quarterback and the scheme accentuates that.  

[mjt328]

Stats are a horrible way to judge individual defensive players, regardless of position.

 

The last few years, teams have generally respected our secondary.  Which means they don't test us deep.  Which means not so many interceptions and passes defensed for our safeties.  Those stats don't mean anything.

 

 

 

[Just Joshin']

Scouting via the stat lines is always a good technique.

[mjt328]

9 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

So I read most of the responses in this thread, and lots of contradiction going on amongst people, which gets back to my original point.  It seems like a wasted spot on the team, like just a floater out there.  Again, this could be a scheme issue and not a Hyde issue, but the FS position on this team is useless right now.

 

I keep hearing he plays center field.  What's the point of him playing center field if he isn't going to be involved in any passing plays?  Is he out there just to get a tan?

 

I keep hearing that he is there so we don't get beat deep.  Teams don't need to throw deep on us when they can throw it underneath and just take off down the field.  Hyde is playing so far back, so teams are just throwing in front of him and doing whatever they want in space.

 

We are giving up way too much in the passing game, and this has been a constant theme with QBs that have any ounce of talent.  People see the numbers and just forget the fact we played QBs like Haskins, Allen, Mariota, Dalton, Hodges, etc.

 

I really feel one of our major issues is that we give up so much space in the middle of the field because we are so scared of giving up a deep ball.  This is now killing us in the run game too.  The % of a QB actually throwing an accurate ball deep is low.  Take your chances that the QB can actually throw the ball on target and tighten up closer to the line of scrimmage. 

 

Go back and watch last season, and you will understand Sean McDermott's philosophy.

 

It's not about getting lots of sacks.  It's not about getting lots of turnovers and causing chaos.

It's about avoiding big plays.  Letting things happen in front of the defense.  And then being disciplined enough to stop offenses before they can get first downs and move into scoring position.

 

Lots of Bills fans seem to struggle with the concept that not every Defensive scheme in the NFL is the same.  They want Tremaine Edmunds to be a between-the-tackles thumper at MLB.  They want Star Lotulelei to be a penetrating DT who racks up impact plays.  Apparently now we want Micah Hyde to be playing man-to-man coverage.  But these are not their roles in McDermott's scheme. 

 

There is NO DOUBT that our defense is not doing it's job so far in 2020, and McDermott needs to figure out why.  Maybe too many guys are playing injured.  Maybe the loss of Lotulelei is way bigger than we anticipated.  But I don't believe it comes down to his scheme, or players like Hyde and Edmunds playing out of position.  We have seen enough over the last few seasons to know this team CAN play great defense, and do it against good QBs.

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

Was Vince Taylor a sneaky big roster subtraction?

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Was Vince Taylor a sneaky big roster subtraction?

 

Is he on an active roster? If not I think I'd keep my phone handy if I were him.

[Back2Buff]

32 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

Go back and watch last season, and you will understand Sean McDermott's philosophy.

 

It's not about getting lots of sacks.  It's not about getting lots of turnovers and causing chaos.

It's about avoiding big plays.  Letting things happen in front of the defense.  And then being disciplined enough to stop offenses before they can get first downs and move into scoring position.

 

Lots of Bills fans seem to struggle with the concept that not every Defensive scheme in the NFL is the same.  They want Tremaine Edmunds to be a between-the-tackles thumper at MLB.  They want Star Lotulelei to be a penetrating DT who racks up impact plays.  Apparently now we want Micah Hyde to be playing man-to-man coverage.  But these are not their roles in McDermott's scheme. 

 

There is NO DOUBT that our defense is not doing it's job so far in 2020, and McDermott needs to figure out why.  Maybe too many guys are playing injured.  Maybe the loss of Lotulelei is way bigger than we anticipated.  But I don't believe it comes down to his scheme, or players like Hyde and Edmunds playing out of position.  We have seen enough over the last few seasons to know this team CAN play great defense, and do it against good QBs.

 

 

 

That defense only works versus inferior QBs. 

 

The only way we have beat good QBs with McDermott is through sacks and turnovers (think of Dallas last year).

 

I remember last year we started playing like you described, and it just wasn't good enough.  Started to play more aggressive and it was much more effective.

[Coach Tuesday]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Is he on an active roster? If not I think I'd keep my phone handy if I were him.

He’s playing for the Browns.  Prob should’ve kept him but not sure who they would’ve cut.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 9/28/2020 at 6:04 PM, Crayola64 said:

Imagine looking at counting stats to analyze a safety

 

I know, right?