Jerboski Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 The defense has struggled, i dont get everyone mocking the guy for bringing a question surrounded by some factual stats With the way the defense is playing this feels like a post that should be fair game to have a real discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, dneveu said: The last sentence here doesn't make a ton of sense... Do you remember anyone beating buffalo deep? And if you blitz all the time, teams will beat you over the top if you don't have the man corners required to run that type of scheme. Buffalo plays a ton of bail coverage and typically he's the deep safety in cover 3, or they will have like a hybrid cover 4 where he's again covering the deep man. The only time you're getting a PD/INT is if they chuck one up deep, and teams don't do that because he has some solid ball skills. Safeties in schemes that play a lot more cover 1 will typically get better numbers, but then you're isolating your CBs on an island, and you will give up deep balls - as well as get gashed by deep overs and rub routes. Buffalo doesn't have the corners to play that style, nor do i think that mcdermott wants to. Good post. McD's scheme, IMO, is to force teams to make long drives by disguising coverages, keeping the safeties deeper and forcing everything to be in front of them, taking away the long throws. It plays the odds--that the more plays the opponent runs, the more likely they are to have a breakdown/penalty stop the drive. And it seems to work with this safety tandem because they can cover so much ground, yet still be effective in run support. It's the same argument why our CBs are less apt to get INTs. It's like throwing a blanket over the passing game, rather than relying on tight man coverage that can look great when it works, but has a lower probability of success the more throws it has to defend... Edited September 28, 2020 by Lurker 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jerboski said: The defense has struggled, i dont get everyone mocking the guy for bringing a question surrounded by some factual stats With the way the defense is playing this feels like a post that should be fair game to have a real discussion On one hand, I think people should be able to express their opinions and engage in open debate about all things Bills. On the other hand, if one is going to start a thread basically saying Hyde sucks, he or she should bring more than two stats (passes defensed and interceptions) offered in a vacuum. Offer something with a little more depth and thought to it... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Back2Buff said: When Hyde first came to Buffalo, he was excellent. Since that first season, there has been a pretty rapid decline. 2017: 13 Pass Defended, 5 Ints 2018: 5 Pass Defended, 2 Ints 2019: 2 Pass Defended, 1 Int 2020: 1 Pass Defended thus far. When you take a look at his last 15 games (including Houston game), he has one pass defended, that's it. He doesn't get sacks, and plays more of a FS role on this team. That is awful for a guy that is supposed to be roaming in the secondary. The only time I see Hyde on the field, is when he is making a tackle 15 yards down the field, or chasing a guy from behind. It seems like a wasted position to me. I would rather have a guy out there like Neal, who can cause havoc. You don't need to be worried about getting beat over the top when you are applying more pressure. You got it mixed, Son. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 Currently The Bills are ranked 16th. Ahead of teams like Seattle, Dallas, GB, Saints and Houston. The D's shortcomings can't be singled out by any one specific player. It's a team sport and the unit is only as good as its scheme and how the scheme is executed. It's always 11 vs. 11. The players will eventually get on point but the coaches also have to put them in position to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 25 minutes ago, Jerboski said: The defense has struggled, i dont get everyone mocking the guy for bringing a question surrounded by some factual stats With the way the defense is playing this feels like a post that should be fair game to have a real discussion The reason the OP is getting a bit of a hard time is that the stats he has chosen (pass break ups and INTs) and his comment about needing a guy to "cause havoc and bring pressure" vs a guy who makes tackles 15 yds down the field like Hyde, show that he fundamentally doesn't understand the role of a free safety in Frazier and McDermott's D (in most D's actually). He's called the safety because it's his job to backstop the other players and MAKE those sure tackles 15 yds downfield so that a whiff or being out of position by those other guys doesn't result in a race to the EZ by the opponents We play a lot of zone defense and the role of the safeties in Frazier/McD's defense is to play deep and keep everything in front of them. That naturally means they will have fewer PBU and INTs, especially if the LB and CB are doing their job to FSU. Poyer and Hyde are great safeties for us because they can read/react so quickly and cover so much ground that they can fill their roles as the "backstoppers" and still move up to defend the run. The top tacklers on the team (in McD/Frazier D) should be the linebackers and the strong safety. Even without adjusting for the game Milano missed, that's just what you see last year: top tacklers on the team Poyer, Edmunds and Milano, next the CBs and free safety (Wallace and Hyde). Teams tend to shy away from White, so his tackle numbers are lower. So far one sign of our team's struggles are that even adding together the LB to account for Edmunds and Milano missing a game, the lead tackler is Poyer with Hyde second. It means our linebackers are struggling a bit. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 15 minutes ago, Lurker said: Good post. McD's scheme, IMO, is to force teams to make long drives by disguising coverages, keeping the safeties deeper and forcing everything to be in front of them, taking away the long throws. It plays the odds--that the more plays the opponent runs, the more likely they are to have a breakdown/penalty stop the drive. And it seems to work with this safety tandem because they can cover so much ground, yet still be effective in run support. It's the same argument why our CBs are less apt to get INTs. It's like throwing a blanket over the passing game, rather than relying on tight man coverage that can look great when it works, but has a lower probability of success the more throws it has to defend... Rams scheme their guys open really well with play action too. That creates space. Their run game keeps them ahead of the sticks. And for whatever reason they never get called for holding. A lot of the jets/dolphins game guys were where they needed to be - honestly fitz just played a good fitz game and his timing and throws were absolutely on-point. Good throws beat good coverage. But you will see guys making plays on the ball and focusing on pass breakups. Once you have a team in 3rd and 8 - those throws become a bit tougher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 If you want to call our any players on defense there are a few players much more deserving. Like Taron Johnson or Edmunds or Dawkins on offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Back2Buff said: When Hyde first came to Buffalo, he was excellent. Since that first season, there has been a pretty rapid decline. 2017: 13 Pass Defended, 5 Ints 2018: 5 Pass Defended, 2 Ints 2019: 2 Pass Defended, 1 Int 2020: 1 Pass Defended thus far. When you take a look at his last 15 games (including Houston game), he has one pass defended, that's it. He doesn't get sacks, and plays more of a FS role on this team. That is awful for a guy that is supposed to be roaming in the secondary. The only time I see Hyde on the field, is when he is making a tackle 15 yards down the field, or chasing a guy from behind. It seems like a wasted position to me. I would rather have a guy out there like Neal, who can cause havoc. You don't need to be worried about getting beat over the top when you are applying more pressure. Hyde and Poyer comprise what is widely discussed and agreed upon in NFL circles as (still) one of the best safety combos on any team in the league. It is their efforts in making adjustments, assigning and disguising coverage pre-snap that give fits to coaches like Bill Belichick among others. I think physically Hyde is certainly dropping off a little, but he hasn't "hit the wall" and become a liability, and his intelligence makes him so valuable still on the field. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 1 minute ago, 34-78-83 said: Hyde and Poyer comprise what is widely discussed and agreed upon in NFL circles as (still) one of the best safety combos on any team in the league. It is their efforts in making adjustments, assigning and disguising coverage pre-snap that give fits to coaches like Bill Belichick among others. I think physically Hyde is certainly dropping off a little, but he hasn't "hit the wall" and become a liability, and his intelligence makes him so valuable still on the field. Hyde has been working through an ankle sprain, I believe. Reinjured yesterday although able to return. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 I think Hyde has been playing hurt....he has been down more then once in games and returned.....but that doesnt mean he is healthy I think we are having a health issue right now with several players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Back2Buff said: When Hyde first came to Buffalo, he was excellent. Since that first season, there has been a pretty rapid decline. 2017: 13 Pass Defended, 5 Ints 2018: 5 Pass Defended, 2 Ints 2019: 2 Pass Defended, 1 Int 2020: 1 Pass Defended thus far. When you take a look at his last 15 games (including Houston game), he has one pass defended, that's it. He doesn't get sacks, and plays more of a FS role on this team. That is awful for a guy that is supposed to be roaming in the secondary. The only time I see Hyde on the field, is when he is making a tackle 15 yards down the field, or chasing a guy from behind. It seems like a wasted position to me. I would rather have a guy out there like Neal, who can cause havoc. You don't need to be worried about getting beat over the top when you are applying more pressure. Poyer and Hyde defended and picked off a lot of passes their first year. You know what happened? Teams stopped throwing at them. Nothing to see here. Move along. Rapid decline? Pft. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 I have to tell you, the stupidity of these posts....first yesterday how the Bills need to cut Edmonds. Now this. People literally making ***** up as they go. Some of the hottest and dumbest takes for the best team in over 20 years in Buffalo. People here, after the Bills win the super bowl this year, will complain that the Bills didn't win by enough. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 I don't know if Hyde is the problem or some other player, or the defensive calls, or the scheme that Frazier puts place -- but SOMETHING is wrong with the defense. Two weeks in a row, and we had to have a dramatic comeback when trailing after having a big lead. Maybe the entire league is struggling on defense. There were 13 starting QBs with QBR at 99.9 or above. That can't last. Maybe the offenses have taken some big steps and the DCs need a little time to figure out how to stop them. Whatever. 3-0. I'll take it. Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racketmaster Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Back2Buff said: When Hyde first came to Buffalo, he was excellent. Since that first season, there has been a pretty rapid decline. 2017: 13 Pass Defended, 5 Ints 2018: 5 Pass Defended, 2 Ints 2019: 2 Pass Defended, 1 Int 2020: 1 Pass Defended thus far. When you take a look at his last 15 games (including Houston game), he has one pass defended, that's it. He doesn't get sacks, and plays more of a FS role on this team. That is awful for a guy that is supposed to be roaming in the secondary. The only time I see Hyde on the field, is when he is making a tackle 15 yards down the field, or chasing a guy from behind. It seems like a wasted position to me. I would rather have a guy out there like Neal, who can cause havoc. You don't need to be worried about getting beat over the top when you are applying more pressure. OP, the above stats are a little alarming and at the very least something worth keeping an eye on. I do believe Hyde came in and played exceptionally well as the above stats indicate and that certainly made him a fan favorite so any criticism of Hyde is likely to be met with some resistance because he has been a core leader since the beginning of the McDermott regime. I’m not sure we have a better option right now but I do think it is probably time to look at upgrading the safety position in the 2021 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 Ah yes. A call out thread aimed at the leader of the Second ranked pass defense in the league last year. How exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 https://www.nfl.com/players/micah-hyde/stats/career He's on pace for a record year in tackles. Part of the reason his passing defense numbers dropped is because his reputation precedes him. Throwing in his direction is not something Offenses want to do. A "safety" is what its supposed to be, a last ditch effort to stop a play. You really don't want him making all these tackles because that means something broke down to get to his level of the playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, racketmaster said: OP, the above stats are a little alarming and at the very least something worth keeping an eye on. I do believe Hyde came in and played exceptionally well as the above stats indicate and that certainly made him a fan favorite so any criticism of Hyde is likely to be met with some resistance because he has been a core leader since the beginning of the McDermott regime. I’m not sure we have a better option right now but I do think it is probably time to look at upgrading the safety position in the 2021 draft. Finding younger safeties is a priority for them. We know that. If he was there Dugger was going to be the pick. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brennan Huff Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 The defense as a whole has declined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: Finding younger safeties is a priority for them. We know that. If he was there Dugger was going to be the pick. Thats 100% true. I think it because of money issues mainly, but younger star talent at the position is always welcome. People must forget what it was like before Poyer and Hyde....terrrrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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