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Hapless Bills Fan

Allen's face mask penalty: You Wouldn't Like Me When I'm Angry

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44 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

The refs do not protect Allen like they do other QBs.  Some of it must be his reckless style but still, the horse collar tackle set a bad tone.  Dumb rule, but called correctly,  still he was hit in the helmet quite a bit.  Once that happened Allen reverted to street ball.   Face masks, laterals, etc.  
 

Thankfully he calmed down and made big plays on the last drive. Otherwise this looks like the Houston playoff game part 2 and we are questioning his growth.  
 

 

 

Horsecollar tackles are LEGAL and specifically mentioned as legal in the NFL rule book if the QB is in the pocket. It WAS a horsecollar tackle but it was NOT a penalty.

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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

"Mr. McGee, Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry." - Dr Bruce Banner

 

I have never seen anything like it.  And I really don't want to see anything like it again.

First we have Justin Hollins, #58, 6'5", 248 pounds.  Allen shifts the ball to his left hand, stiff-arms him with his throwing arm and holds him off.

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Then we have a second linebacker, Leonard Floyd (I think), 6'5", 240.  Allen sidesteps, ducks, and shoves Hollins into his path (by the face mask) before wrestling Hollins to the ground (by the face mask) like an old-school dog owner shoving a bad puppy's face into its mess.  Yes, that face mask penalty was entirely legit.  Allen corkscrewed the LB into the ground by the face mask, using him to take out the second LB like two bowling pins in the process.

image.thumb.png.2303ed630c904e7c31d753575b7bf1de.png

image.thumb.png.0b83f03972f75f5291f821a125c4725f.png

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Allen turns, and Aaron Donald is right there.  "Not this time".  Allen stiffarms and deflects him.

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Donald's momentum carries him past Allen.  Allen steps up while Donald is still collecting himself and throws in the face of an onrushing 4th guy.  Through the back of the endzone, fortunately - not where it could be picked off.  But you know if he'd seen a  receiver with a throwing lane at that point, Allen would have tried to make a play.
 

Here's what I don't like - while Allen is stiff arming and wrestling Hollins around with his right arm, the ball is fully extended in his left arm and waving around in the air like a chunk of tuna over the Orca tank at Seaworld.  All it would have taken at that point is for a guy Allen was unaware of (or for Floyd) to change their target and go for the ball instead of Allen.  Fumble, and that's the ball game.

 

It was exciting to watch, though.  It's like "Offensive line?  I don't need no damned offensive line, I AM a damned offensive line!" 

You could tell it juiced our guys up a bit when they were pretty well exhausted there at the end of the game, too.

 

Question: can anyone else remember a QB being called for a face mask penalty, where it was well-deserved, ever?

 

 

 

 

 

My concern was him using his golden arm and throwing hand to grab a heavy human by the face mask and toss him around.

 

Never seen anything like that and it contributed  to my shot nerves yesterday.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Josh can definitely get better, but in this case I don't think he had time for the check down. 

It was either a blown protection, or a blown protection call.  So where Josh may need to improve on this call is in recognizing the D pre-snap and making the right adjustment.

 

You can tell pre-snap that #58, Hollins, is NOT going to cover the guy he's lined up across from - Beasley I think.  He's revving his engine with Allen in his sights, and he's not being subtle about it.  But Dawkins takes the next guy over, leaving Hollins is "unabated to the QB". 

 

Let's look at a bit of a zoom-in a moment after your screenshot.

At the point where Hollins is already in the pocket with Allen in his sights, neither Beas nor Singletary have even started to turn yet.

image.thumb.png.c50a614760c1a43c3409069071f3322d.png

Beas is kinda going "uh-oh" realizing there's no one covering him which means his guy is heading for the backfield.

At the point where Motor breaks and turns, Allen is literally already holding Hollins off.

image.thumb.png.3a91887be97ed0df2b5953d215ddec0c.png

 

What I think he might have, as this shot a fraction of a second earlier shows, is a play to Beasley.  That's what the QB is supposed to do, right? throw into the blitz?

But at the point where Allen and Bease turn, Hollins is right there and I believe it would be a dangerous throw.

image.thumb.png.9a517706205e637a0fc62f57f3bb261d.png

 

I think the root cause of problems on this play is either a breakdown in protection, or a wrong protection call.  Allen is not behaving as though he recognizes #58 has a free path to him.  This is the part that still needs improvement, IMO

 

 

Wasn't Dawkins out of the game by this point?  I think that may have been the issue...Ty Nsekhe is used to playing RT not LT and may not have picked up the right person in that situation...

Edited by matter2003
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6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Josh can definitely get better, but in this case I don't think he had time for the check down. 

It was either a blown protection, or a blown protection call.  So where Josh may need to improve on this call is in recognizing the D pre-snap and making the right adjustment.

 

You can tell pre-snap that #58, Hollins, is NOT going to cover the guy he's lined up across from - Beasley I think.  He's revving his engine with Allen in his sights, and he's not being subtle about it.  But Dawkins takes the next guy over, leaving Hollins is "unabated to the QB". 

 

Let's look at a bit of a zoom-in a moment after your screenshot.

At the point where Hollins is already in the pocket with Allen in his sights, neither Beas nor Singletary have even started to turn yet.

image.thumb.png.c50a614760c1a43c3409069071f3322d.png

Beas is kinda going "uh-oh" realizing there's no one covering him which means his guy is heading for the backfield.

At the point where Motor breaks and turns, Allen is literally already holding Hollins off.

image.thumb.png.3a91887be97ed0df2b5953d215ddec0c.png

 

What I think he might have, as this shot a fraction of a second earlier shows, is a play to Beasley.  That's what the QB is supposed to do, right? throw into the blitz?

But at the point where Allen and Bease turn, Hollins is right there and I believe it would be a dangerous throw.

image.thumb.png.9a517706205e637a0fc62f57f3bb261d.png

 

I think the root cause of problems on this play is either a breakdown in protection, or a wrong protection call.  Allen is not behaving as though he recognizes #58 has a free path to him.  This is the part that still needs improvement, IMO

 

I think he could have just floated it in Motor's direction. It would have been more helpful if he ran a swing route with this head turned towards the QB.

 

But it's that turn your back to the line and roll left move that gets him in so much trouble. Josh could have moved straight back in the pocket and floated it to the flat.

Edited by Motorin'

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1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

Wasn't Dawkins out of the game by this point?  I think that may have been the issue...Ty Nsekhe is used to playing RT not T and may not have picked up he right person in that situation...

 

Good catch.  Yes, Dawkins was injured and went out 4 plays earlier.  It is possible it was a blown protection and not a blown protection call.

This is where casual fans blame the OL but really, unless you know the protection call and the assignments we can't tell who's at fault.

 

The only thing we can say for sure is that Allen is not expecting to have an unblocked defender closing on his blindside on this play.

35 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Kyle Brandt on GMFB showed this play along with the one where he tried the crazy lateral to McKenzie and described it as" Sugar High Josh Allen", playing playground football.  He said it with all due respect and called Allen the league MEP. (most entertaining player). One thing for sure, he is fun to watch.  

 

Is there a clip of this segment up anywhere yet?  I'd love to see it.

 

Apparently some of the offensive players call Josh Allen "Dad".  I think it's more like "Double Espresso Dad" than "Sugar High Josh Allen".  Abbreviate "DeD" which seems a propos because 1) it's a play on Dad 2) we fear that's what Allen is gonna be if he keeps playing linebacker from the pocket.

 

But just in case....NO SKITTLES FOR YOU, JOSH!  He and Marshawn Lynch should do a commercial.

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3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

Horsecollar tackles are LEGAL and specifically mentioned as legal in the NFL rule book if the QB is in the pocket. It WAS a horsecollar tackle but it was NOT a penalty.

I said “dumb rule, but called correctly “ in my post. 
 

I bet that tackle draws a flag against Brady and other top tier QBs.  I seriously doubt Brady gets a flag for complaining about it either.  

Edited by Bob in STL
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Intercepted at NFL FO:

 

"Dear Your Honor Mr. Commissioner Goodell,

 

Please make the bad man stop  He's very mean..

 

Respectfully submitted,

Justin Hollins"

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5 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

I think he could have just floated it in Motor's direction. It would have been more helpful if he ran a swing route with this head turned towards the QB.

 

But it's that turn your back to the line and roll left move that gets him in so much trouble. Josh could have moved straight back in the pocket and floated it to the flat.

 

Yes.  Josh Allen could have executed a different play and so could Motor.

 

My point is that the problem isn't Josh Allen missing an available and wide open Motor, it's Josh Allen and his outlet receivers not being aware there's an unblocked blitzer on his blindside.  So in executing the called play and waiting for the called routes to develop (including Motor's), Josh wound up with 240 lb of unexpected angry beef in his face.

 

And THAT'S the point that needs to get better.

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1 minute ago, hemma said:

Intercepted at NFL FO:

 

"Dear Your Honor Mr. Commissioner Goodell,

 

Please make the bad man stop  He's very mean..

 

Respectfully submitted,

Justin Hollins"

 

The crap is just never gonna stop for Hollins today.  "Fam!  You OK?"

 

I forget who it was, but someone in a pre-Denver game interview laughed and said "Come On!" when Von Miller said of Josh Allen that he had a stiff arm like Deon Sanders.  Von Miller said "no, watch film, he does". 

 

I don't think Van Nuys, Hollins, and Donald would laugh.

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2 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

 

 

 

Nate will be FULLY converted When the Bills CRUSH the Pats

 

Edited by SlimShady'sSpaceForce
added Fully

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10 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

 

 

That's fantastic.  "Sugar High Josh Allen".    No skittles for you, Josh!

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57 minutes ago, WideNine said:

My concern was him using his golden arm and throwing hand to grab a heavy human by the face mask and toss him around.

Never seen anything like that and it contributed  to my shot nerves yesterday.

 

No Lies.  Hopefully Lorenzo Alexander [Edit: and current teammates!!!!] got on the horn to Allen last night and said (like he did after Allen jumped Barr) NEVER do that again.

 

A dirty player could have done all sorts of ***** to Allen's arm on that play.

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2 hours ago, JMF2006 said:

He plays QB like a linebacker ;)

 

Nope never seen a QB punish defenders like Josh.

 

Now cut it out...we already know your Buffalo tough :) 

 

I seem to recall a certain Buffalo Bills QB who had a knack for punishing defenders...

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yes.  Josh Allen could have executed a different play and so could Motor.

 

My point is that the problem isn't Josh Allen missing an available and wide open Motor, it's Josh Allen and his outlet receivers not being aware there's an unblocked blitzer on his blindside.  So in executing the called play and waiting for the called routes to develop (including Motor's), Josh wound up with 240 lb of unexpected angry beef in his face.

 

And THAT'S the point that needs to get better.

This always frustrates me, pro receivers not checking in with whats happening after the snap with qb protection.  Nothing worse than half your wr's running deep routes when a blitzer is coming free to your qb.

 

John Brown is the best at this.  Always cuts his route short and gets available if he feels like the heat is on Josh prematurely.  We missed that guy yesterday, he would have moved the chains for us and slowed the game down in the 2nd half.

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3 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

I thought for sure he was going to fumble there.  That's an awful habit he has.

I am surprised at the number of people who don't get this.

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6 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Take a lap

 

I googled "DDCC".  It's a marketing and communications consulting firm in LA.

Just a disgruntled Rams fan joining a few hours ago.

 

Am I right @DDCC

Edited by ColoradoBills
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4 hours ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

 

I seem to recall a certain Buffalo Bills QB who had a knack for punishing defenders...

 

 

 

The break his leg for the INT play?

 

I'll keep my lunch thanks.  

 

4 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I googled "DDCC".  It's a marketing and communications consulting firm in LA.

Just a disgruntled Rams fan joining a few hours ago.

 

Am I right @DDCC

 

I figured out he / she was looking to up their post count this AM.  

 

Arguing with Hap.   LOL  

Edited by SlimShady'sSpaceForce
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