mjt328 Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 7 hours ago, LB48 said: Josh has the skills to run on any play effectively. He's especially good avoiding the pass rush and escaping for a run. With the read-option Josh reads the initial path of the edge defender (DE or OLB) and the OL zone blocks regardless of the defensive alignment. Then he decides to pull the ball from the running back or run himself based on his read. Was this a special game plan for the Jets? Is it based on some doubts about the OL and running the ball? With 4 very good receivers, a strong TE option and 2 young RB's. I hate to see Josh taking hits as a RB. Keep him in the pocket. Comments please. Maybe he gets better with time, but my observation is that he needs some work reading the defender on those read-option plays. Without going back and watching the film, he seemed to make the wrong decision quite a few times. I'm also going to join the chorus of Bills fans who would like to see LESS designed runs for our QB. As much as Josh has improved as a passer going into his 3rd season, it's pretty clear that he hasn't fixed the ball security problem. Every defense in the league is going to target the ball when he's running, because of his fumbling problem. If a running back fumbled that much, our coaching staff would bench him, because those kinds of turnovers will eventually cost you games. The worst thing that can happen to a playoff-caliber team is the loss of its quarterback. The more you expose him to big hits, the great the chance for injury. Mobile QBs who aren't continuously sliding and avoiding hits (like Russell Wilson) often get hurt a lot (see Cam Newton, Deshaun Watson). And history shows they have much shorter careers. Don't get me wrong. I think using Josh as a runner in the Red Zone is fantastic. It's almost automatic points. And I don't believe they should discourage him from scrambling on plays where he can get the first down. But I do think we should greatly limit the DESIGNED runs. The risk just isn't worth what we are getting out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 7 hours ago, LB48 said: Josh has the skills to run on any play effectively. He's especially good avoiding the pass rush and escaping for a run. With the read-option Josh reads the initial path of the edge defender (DE or OLB) and the OL zone blocks regardless of the defensive alignment. Then he decides to pull the ball from the running back or run himself based on his read. Was this a special game plan for the Jets? Is it based on some doubts about the OL and running the ball? With 4 very good receivers, a strong TE option and 2 young RB's. I hate to see Josh taking hits as a RB. Keep him in the pocket. Comments please. yes Josh’s Legs are a weapon. And I love designed Runs for him. However what I don’t like is calling them when up 21. At some point you have to say ok. This game is in hand all the extra hits on Josh are unneeded. get ready to seeing more of them Sunday. Until MIA shows they have figured out how to stop a mobile QB. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy1 Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 I’m ok with it inside the opponents 5 yd line or at critical 3rd down moments. I hate seeing him runnning in the middle of the field through traffic though. I’d rather see him angling towards the sidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Hated it. If they’re going to run it they need a lot more practice at it. Some of the exchanges were a millisecond away from another turnover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 51 minutes ago, mjt328 said: Maybe he gets better with time, but my observation is that he needs some work reading the defender on those read-option plays. Without going back and watching the film, he seemed to make the wrong decision quite a few times. I'm also going to join the chorus of Bills fans who would like to see LESS designed runs for our QB. As much as Josh has improved as a passer going into his 3rd season, it's pretty clear that he hasn't fixed the ball security problem. Every defense in the league is going to target the ball when he's running, because of his fumbling problem. If a running back fumbled that much, our coaching staff would bench him, because those kinds of turnovers will eventually cost you games. The worst thing that can happen to a playoff-caliber team is the loss of its quarterback. The more you expose him to big hits, the great the chance for injury. Mobile QBs who aren't continuously sliding and avoiding hits (like Russell Wilson) often get hurt a lot (see Cam Newton, Deshaun Watson). And history shows they have much shorter careers. Don't get me wrong. I think using Josh as a runner in the Red Zone is fantastic. It's almost automatic points. And I don't believe they should discourage him from scrambling on plays where he can get the first down. But I do think we should greatly limit the DESIGNED runs. The risk just isn't worth what we are getting out. Deshaun Watson has only missed NFL games from a non contact ACL injury in practice. As for what we are getting out of the designed runs.... on those first few drives on Sunday the answer was 3 first downs and a touchdown. I agree once up 21-0 against a team doing nothing on offense they could maybe have been put away sooner, but they were a necessary part of the gameplan on Sunday. I do think they will use it more sparingly in other games though actually it is a weapon I can see being effective against the Dolphins too. The other factor is can the running backs play better than they did on Sunday and can the oline run block better? Yes the Jets D line is tough, but our backs were not good. Those same opening 4 drives they had 8 rushes for 9 yards combined and 1 first down. When you are getting no run game from elsewhere it is more tempting to use Josh in that regard. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandBillsFan Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 9 hours ago, Warcodered said: I like Allen better as a scrambler over a designed runner. 100% agree. If he needs to run to avoid pressure or its a broken play so be it. With injury (and fumble) potential I say limit/eliminate the designed runs and RPO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny3000 Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 I mean, whatever the stats say. Watch that game and tell me you didn't hold your breath every time Josh Allen takes off on a run and tries to find out how much superman he's got in him. To me it's like having a dog that will push him or herself past their own limit. You as the owner, handler, caretaker have to be aware of this and manage them accordingly. Daboll and McDermott need to do a much better job of this. That's not a winning formula for 16 weeks. That's how you win 1 game in a vacuum and don't worry about whether or not your starting qb is gonna be able to suit up and play each week. I mean, since I have no control over it I'll sit back and watch like the rest of you guys. But this Daboll dude seems to really want Matt Barkley to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Deshaun Watson has only missed NFL games from a non contact ACL injury in practice. As for what we are getting out of the designed runs.... on those first few drives on Sunday the answer was 3 first downs and a touchdown. I agree once up 21-0 against a team doing nothing on offense they could maybe have been put away sooner, but they were a necessary part of the gameplan on Sunday. I do think they will use it more sparingly in other games though actually it is a weapon I can see being effective against the Dolphins too. The other factor is can the running backs play better than they did on Sunday and can the oline run block better? Yes the Jets D line is tough, but our backs were not good. Those same opening 4 drives they had 8 rushes for 9 yards combined and 1 first down. When you are getting no run game from elsewhere it is more tempting to use Josh in that regard. Agree 100% - the only running yards we really got early in the game were off Zone reads and designed QB runs. They were not allowing the Bills any gains with the RBs. Additionally the 2 worst hits Josh took in the game - were times he was in the pocket. Sal brought this up several times yesterday - all of the recent studies of NFL QB injuries - consistently show QBs are much more likely to get injured throwing the ball rather than runnIng with it. It doesn’t mean it can’t happen - the likelihood just is higher in the pocket - just like in his rookie year when Josh got hurt throwing - not running. Edited September 15, 2020 by Rochesterfan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 The concept is good, but think he may be seeing things that aren't really there and yanking it back too many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: Agree 100% - the only running yards we really got early in the game were off Zone reads and designed QB runs. They were not allowing the Bills any gains with the RBs. Additionally the 2 worst hits Josh took in the game - were times he was in the pocket. Sal brought this up several times yesterday - all of the recent studies of NFL QB injuries - consistently show QBs are much more likely to get injured throwing the ball rather than runnIng with it. It doesn’t mean it can’t happen - the likelihood just is higher in the pocket - just like in his rookie year when Josh got hurt throwing - not running. I wonder if those statistics would change if most of the QBs runs resulted in the same hits that Josh seems to crave. Nearly all QBs who take off with the ball slide well in advance of a serious impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, GG said: I wonder if those statistics would change if most of the QBs runs resulted in the same hits that Josh seems to crave. Nearly all QBs who take off with the ball slide well in advance of a serious impact. Maybe, but at least a few of the injuries from running were the result of a QB getting lit up during the slide. Without seeing all of the data - it is hard to know, but Murray got smacked harder several of the times he “Slid” both resulting in roughing calls rather than the times he stayed up and avoided the big contact. We have seen several concussions result from QBs sliding and bringing their head right into alignment with the diving Defensive player - Smith, Flacco, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Allen is a rare beast with the ball in his hands. Extremely agile, fast & powerful. It’s yet another weapon for our offense. Of course I’m concerned about injury. Someone has to be, cuz Josh sureashell isnt. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: Agree 100% - the only running yards we really got early in the game were off Zone reads and designed QB runs. They were not allowing the Bills any gains with the RBs. Additionally the 2 worst hits Josh took in the game - were times he was in the pocket. Sal brought this up several times yesterday - all of the recent studies of NFL QB injuries - consistently show QBs are much more likely to get injured throwing the ball rather than runnIng with it. It doesn’t mean it can’t happen - the likelihood just is higher in the pocket - just like in his rookie year when Josh got hurt throwing - not running. And if I'm thinking of one of these two hits in the pocket, it was after he tossed the ball and it was called a late hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 No, I hate it. Josh is a very upright runner and his ball security is a major problem. He's going to get seriously hurt and the fumbles are an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, Warcodered said: I like Allen better as a scrambler over a designed runner. This. I think the designed runs need to be put on the shelf. I think Josh is a more effective runner when it is on an improvisational basis. He's not Lamar Jackson who has played this style his whole life. Jackson takes hits different, holds the ball different, and that style is what his game is predicated off of. Josh is built to be a QB who can run if he has to, but shouldn't be having designed runs called outside of QB sneaks imo. Edited September 15, 2020 by H2o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 If they want to do designed runs, put him in five WR , empty back field set and let him make the choice from there. Putting our most important weapon in the middle of the front seven? No thank you!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 26 minutes ago, Pokebball said: And if I'm thinking of one of these two hits in the pocket, it was after he tossed the ball and it was called a late hit. Yes - actually both of the hits he took in the pocket were called roughing the passer - one was a hit to the head after he threw the ball and the other was the Jets player diving from behind and taking out his right knee and ankle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 19 hours ago, Warcodered said: I like Allen better as a scrambler over a designed runner. Hate the RPO with Josh's style of running. He's great at scrambling and an occasional sweep but starting from a stopped position in the read option does not work for him. His running strength is improvising in open field on the scramble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 I love it. I’d love it more if SOMEBODY.....could hold on to the damn rock! I love you, Josh Allen.....BUT HOLD ON TO THAT BALL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB48 Posted September 16, 2020 Author Share Posted September 16, 2020 9 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: The concept is good, but think he may be seeing things that aren't really there and yanking it back too many times. It seemed he wanted to yank it back and eventually the Jets saw that too. 1 hour ago, Dragoon said: I love it. I’d love it more if SOMEBODY.....could hold on to the damn rock! I love you, Josh Allen.....BUT HOLD ON TO THAT BALL! AMEN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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