The packers really blew it selecting Love

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I could see drafting Love if the Packers had very few needs in the draft and a complete set of offensive weapons. With the talent at WR in the first 3 rds I cannot believe that the Packers picked a QB. I thought it was an all around stupid move when the offense had so many needs and you already have a top 3 QB already on the roster. You run the risk of your franchise QB demanding or forcing a trade, I actually thought Rodgers was going to demand a trade it felt that bad. After watching all the rookie WR's making plays and helping offenses I think it is even dumber now. 

[BBills88]

On 9/14/2020 at 4:19 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

The Packers really blew it selecting Aaron Rodgers. I just watched Favre still sling it....

 

 

This is what the Packers do. They have 4 HoF QBs (soon to be 5), and 3 QBs (Starr, Favre, Rodgers) make up 45 of 100 years of their existence.

This is exactly what they have done.

[Real McClappy]

30 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I could see drafting Love if the Packers had very few needs in the draft and a complete set of offensive weapons. With the talent at WR in the first 3 rds I cannot believe that the Packers picked a QB. I thought it was an all around stupid move when the offense had so many needs and you already have a top 3 QB already on the roster. You run the risk of your franchise QB demanding or forcing a trade, I actually thought Rodgers was going to demand a trade it felt that bad. After watching all the rookie WR's making plays and helping offenses I think it is even dumber now. 

Packers have the #1 scoring offense in the NFL? What is a rookie WR going to do for them at this phase?  I applaud them for drafting and grooming a QB behind 36yr old Rodgers. I wish the Bills were smart enough to do something like this before we lost Jimbo instead of the hiatus we went through for 20+yrs at the QB position.

 

Favre/Rodgers =  20 playoffs appearances over a 27 year span with 2 SB trophies. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Real McNasty

[GunnerBill]

Nah. When you think a guy can be a franchise QB and your guy is on the back 9 you take him. That is just good drafting. If you want to argue with them following that with a running back and a blocking tight end be my guest.... but you need a Quarterback in this league. If they really believe Jordan Love can be a good one then they did absolutely the right thing.

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Are you talking about Green Bay or Buffalo?

 

As for Green Bay the criticism was that they did not get Rodgers a WR in a WR deep draft. My point is they added other players to the offense.

No.  What is “the criticism”?  My criticism was NOT that they didn’t get AR a WR.  Patrick Queen was the guy I thought they should’ve drafted.  The defense that got decimated by the run in the NFCCG lost their starting MLB and replaced him with and injury prone player that hasn’t played much in two years......and he’s hurt again.

I did say that I thought they made a mistake by not drafting ONE WR in a very deep WR class.  I stand by that.  Did you see the WRs he was throwing to last night?  Did you see this Shepard character catch the ball at the one yard line and fall down short of the goalline.  Dude just decided to go to the ground instead of scoring a TD.  They got stopped the next 3 plays.  No TD. Do you not think they could have used a WR?  Do you see who is lining up at WR for them?  What a stud Aj Dillon has been.  Just a revelation in that offense.  Not.  Yet they are undefeated and haven’t used any of their top 3 picks all year.
 

Your point was that they added other players to the offense......players have have contributed a grand total of 46 yards of offense through 4 games.  Great point.  Dillon- 3rd string RB 34 yards 0 tds.  Can’t get carries ahead of Jamaal Williams.  Deguara- 4th strong TE 1 catch 12 yards.  Great point Ethan.  

My criticism was that they didn’t get a player that can help them win the super bowl with AR as their QB.  They decided instead, to use their best asset on ARs replacement, rather than someone that can help him win another title.  

I criticized those who said the packers “have no chance to win” a SB in 2020 and that them making the nfccg was a fluke.  People said that they would be worse this year because last years success was unsustainable.  

 

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

Nah. When you think a guy can be a franchise QB and your guy is on the back 9 you take him. That is just good drafting. If you want to argue with them following that with a running back and a blocking tight end be my guest.... but you need a Quarterback in this league. If they really believe Jordan Love can be a good one then they did absolutely the right thing.

I mean it's not a bad thing to be able to have your rookie sit and learn a few seasons.

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, Real McNasty said:

Packers have the #1 scoring offense in the NFL? What is a rookie WR going to do for them at this phase?  I applaud them for drafting and grooming a QB behind 36yr old Rodgers. I wish the Bills were smart enough to do something like this before we lost Jimbo instead of the hiatus we went through for 20+yrs at the QB position.

 

Favre/Rodgers =  20 playoffs appearances since 1993 and 2 Superbowl trophies.

This is the problem.  You see things differently.  As lifelong bills fans we clamor for ONE super bowl.  Just one before we die.  Once we get that one.....we shouldn’t be done.  In favres case, they were done.  In Rodgers case, the FO has acted as if they were done.  2 super bowl titles in 20 years with favre and Rodgers.  You see that as a good stats.  I don’t.  Two all time great, each with only one championship.  
 

to each is their own.  I feel the packers made a big mistake by using their first 3 picks on players for the future.  None of which have helped them achieve 4-0

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Nah. When you think a guy can be a franchise QB and your guy is on the back 9 you take him. That is just good drafting. If you want to argue with them following that with a running back and a blocking tight end be my guest.... but you need a Quarterback in this league. If they really believe Jordan Love can be a good one then they did absolutely the right thing.

they did the right thing in their eyes.  That doesn’t mean they made the right decision.  If, in 15 years when is Rodgers retired with one title and Jordan love has none, they made the wrong move.  Whether or not they thought they made the right move at the time or not.  
 

The Bills absolutely made the right pick in 2003 when they identified JP Losman as a franchise QB and traded up to get him.  Kudos for drafting the guy they thought was a franchise QB.  Was drafting him a good decision? 

19 minutes ago, Real McNasty said:

Packers have the #1 scoring offense in the NFL? What is a rookie WR going to do for them at this phase?  I applaud them for drafting and grooming a QB behind 36yr old Rodgers. I wish the Bills were smart enough to do something like this before we lost Jimbo instead of the hiatus we went through for 20+yrs at the QB position.

 

Favre/Rodgers =  20 playoffs appearances since 1993 and 2 Superbowl trophies.

A stud rookie LB could’ve helped their defense that got destroyed in the NFCCG. A WR could’ve helped more than their 2nd and 3rd rd picks Aj Dillon and Deguara.....who are 3rd and 4th string respectively. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, NewEra said:

they did the right thing in their eyes.  That doesn’t mean they made the right decision.  If, in 15 years when is Rodgers retired with one title and Jordan love has none, they made the wrong move.  Whether or not they thought they made the right move at the time or not.  
 

The Bills absolutely made the right pick in 2003 when they identified JP Losman as a franchise QB and traded up to get him.  Kudos for drafting the guy they thought was a franchise QB.  Was drafting him a good decision? 

 

Yes. It was a bad talent evaluation, but it was a good decision. You have to separate the talent evaluation from the strategic team building decision. You can pick a great player and still end up having made a bad decision - Giants drafting Saquon for example. Saquon could end up in the hall of fame and that would still be a bad decision.

 

But you say "well we can't know until 15 years time" but predicated your thread on "the Packers blew it." How do we know they blew it? What if Love wins 2 Superbowls, blown it? What if he wins as many as Rodgers - ie. 1 - are you going to make the logical leap that he would have won one more if they hadn't taken Love?

[aristocrat]

it's a great move in the sense that there have been two years in the last 5 years or so where arod had an injury where the backup came in and blew the season.  kizer and the kid from ucla i think.  also, god forbid arod gets the virus maybe love is a nice replacement starter who can maybe manage a way to a win for a week or two.  outside of that though i thought they should have got some help on the defensive side of the ball.  the aj dillon pick also looks a little bad but he is behind a decent duo and depth there is nice to have. 

[Real McClappy]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

This is the problem.  You see things differently.  As lifelong bills fans we clamor for ONE super bowl.  Just one before we die.  Once we get that one.....we shouldn’t be done.  In favres case, they were done.  In Rodgers case, the FO has acted as if they were done.  2 super bowl titles in 20 years with favre and Rodgers.  You see that as a good stats.  I don’t.  Two all time great, each with only one championship.  
 

to each is their own.  I feel the packers made a big mistake by using their first 3 picks on players for the future.  None of which have helped them achieve 4-0

I think making the playoffs 20 out of the last 27 years is a good stat. I get your point about 2 HOF QB's as well and agree to a point but there were so many interchangeables from player personel, HC and  FO there over this time span.

 

If this thread was in 2005 when the Packers drafted Rodgers in the first round would it be the same about drafting him when they have Favre? How about Montana and Steve Young? I fully support/applaud the packers for drafting Love. It might not work out but it's better than throwing a rookie to the wolves. Let him learn behind a HOF'er for the next 2-3 years. It gives him the best chance to excel IMO.

 

Not sure why you brought this thread back while the Pack is scoring 38 pts a game on O while only giving up 25 pts a game on D a game?

[billsfan89]

The Packers should have waited a year before picking a replacement. They should have drafted a WR to help Rodgers out the next 3 years as opposed to selecting a replacement for a 37 year old QB. When Rodgers was 38 I would have pulled the trigger on a replacement. QB's usually play well until 40. At 37 Rodgers has 4 more seasons of quality football left reasonably (Age 37-38-39-40) by the time you have to pull the trigger on Love (3 years in) Rodgers will be 40 and still likely have a year or even 2 left in the tank. Whereas if the Packers helped improve their chances to win in 2020 by selecting a WR and waited until 2021 to draft a QB. By waiting one more year they could have had a 3 year plan that would have used up the last best years of Rodgers career.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

26 minutes ago, NewEra said:

No.  What is “the criticism”?  My criticism was NOT that they didn’t get AR a WR.  Patrick Queen was the guy I thought they should’ve drafted.  The defense that got decimated by the run in the NFCCG lost their starting MLB and replaced him with and injury prone player that hasn’t played much in two years......and he’s hurt again.

I did say that I thought they made a mistake by not drafting ONE WR in a very deep WR class.  I stand by that.  Did you see the WRs he was throwing to last night?  Did you see this Shepard character catch the ball at the one yard line and fall down short of the goalline.  Dude just decided to go to the ground instead of scoring a TD.  They got stopped the next 3 plays.  No TD. Do you not think they could have used a WR?  Do you see who is lining up at WR for them?  What a stud Aj Dillon has been.  Just a revelation in that offense.  Not.  Yet they are undefeated and haven’t used any of their top 3 picks all year.
 

Your point was that they added other players to the offense......players have have contributed a grand total of 46 yards of offense through 4 games.  Great point.  Dillon- 3rd string RB 34 yards 0 tds.  Can’t get carries ahead of Jamaal Williams.  Deguara- 4th strong TE 1 catch 12 yards.  Great point Ethan.  

My criticism was that they didn’t get a player that can help them win the super bowl with AR as their QB.  They decided instead, to use their best asset on ARs replacement, rather than someone that can help him win another title.  

I criticized those who said the packers “have no chance to win” a SB in 2020 and that them making the nfccg was a fluke.  People said that they would be worse this year because last years success was unsustainable.  

 

Honesty I paid no attention to what you posted earlier.

All of your points in this post are valid. I would disagree that the other draft picks have no value this year. Buffalo drafted Gabe Davis in 4th round when they already had a solid top 3 WR.  Nobody knows who will truly help or not with the draft. It is all speculation. 

The national narrative after the draft was criticism of not drafting a WR. My only point is that though they didn't use the first round pick to help, they did help the team afterwards.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

The Packers should have waited a year before picking a replacement. They should have drafted a WR to help Rodgers out the next 3 years as opposed to selecting a replacement for a 37 year old QB. When Rodgers was 38 I would have pulled the trigger on a replacement. QB's usually play well until 40. At 37 Rodgers has 4 more seasons of quality football left reasonably (Age 37-38-39-40) by the time you have to pull the trigger on Love (3 years in) Rodgers will be 40 and still likely have a year or even 2 left in the tank. Whereas if the Packers helped improve their chances to win in 2020 by selecting a WR and waited until 2021 to draft a QB. By waiting one more year they could have had a 3 year plan that would have used up the last best years of Rodgers career.

I don't know, they've done this before. Rodgers sat 3 years behind Favre. I think the worse move was drafting AJ Dillion in round 2 when they have 2 good RBs. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Buffalo_Stampede

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

The Packers should have waited a year before picking a replacement. They should have drafted a WR to help Rodgers out the next 3 years as opposed to selecting a replacement for a 37 year old QB. When Rodgers was 38 I would have pulled the trigger on a replacement. QB's usually play well until 40. At 37 Rodgers has 4 more seasons of quality football left reasonably (Age 37-38-39-40) by the time you have to pull the trigger on Love (3 years in) Rodgers will be 40 and still likely have a year or even 2 left in the tank. Whereas if the Packers helped improve their chances to win in 2020 by selecting a WR and waited until 2021 to draft a QB. By waiting one more year they could have had a 3 year plan that would have used up the last best years of Rodgers career.

 

It isn't that easy. If the Packers are a playoff team again (and they were at worst a .500 football team this year) then there is no guarantee a potential franchise guy is sitting there for you picking in the late teens or the 20s. I very much doubt Green Bay went into draft night 2020 saying "man we MUST pick Jordan Love." I suspect much more they said "we really like this kid, we think he can be the guy long term..... if he gets to the back half of the 20s we might want to make a move." You don't always get to pick the years when QBs you like fall to you. They could have passed on Love and then gone two drafts without a guy they like making it their pick or even close to their pick. The you have a 39 year old ARod and what do you do then?

 

Whether it works our long term or not picking Jordan Love was from a strategic team building perspective 100% the right move.

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes. It was a bad talent evaluation, but it was a good decision. You have to separate the talent evaluation from the strategic team building decision. You can pick a great player and still end up having made a bad decision - Giants drafting Saquon for example. Saquon could end up in the hall of fame and that would still be a bad decision.

 

But you say "well we can't know until 15 years time" but predicated your thread on "the Packers blew it." How do we know they blew it? What if Love wins 2 Superbowls, blown it? What if he wins as many as Rodgers - ie. 1 - are you going to make the logical leap that he would have won one more if they hadn't taken Love?

Yes, it’s my prediction that they blew it.  Their LBs are awful. That’s not a prediction, that’s the truth.  Patrick Queen has been playing great ball and would make this defense better.  
 

Imo, the mistake was made the second they decided to draft for the future instead of giving their all time great QB some help.  They don’t have to hope that AR is an all time great. He IS an all time great.  He IS under contract for the next 4 seasons.  They had the making of a super bowl team because they have this all time great QB, even though some here said they had no chance to get back to the nfccg.  
 

this is all obviously just my opinion that has been backed up by the fact that the packer draft class has currently added absolutely nothing to their 4-0 start. 
 

I brought this back up today because I was watching gmfb and they had a segment about it.  They brought up Patrick Queen.  They all agreed with my premise that when you have an all time great like AR that you go all in to win.  Their opinion means nothing, but it got me thinking about this again, hence the bump.

13 minutes ago, Real McNasty said:

I think making the playoffs 20 out of the last 27 years is a good stat. I get your point about 2 HOF QB's as well and agree to a point but there were so many interchangeables from player personel, HC and  FO there over this time span.

 

If this thread was in 2005 when the Packers drafted Rodgers in the first round would it be the same about drafting him when they have Favre? How about Montana and Steve Young? I fully support/applaud the packers for drafting Love. It might not work out but it's better than throwing a rookie to the wolves. Let him learn behind a HOF'er for the next 2-3 years. It gives him the best chance to excel IMO.

 

Not sure why you brought this thread back while the Pack is scoring 38 pts a game on O while only giving up 25 pts a game on D a game?

The reason I brought it up is posted above.

 

 

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Honesty I paid no attention to what you posted earlier.

All of your points in this post are valid. I would disagree that the other draft picks have no value this year. Buffalo drafted Gabe Davis in 4th round when they already had a solid top 3 WR.  Nobody knows who will truly help or not with the draft. It is all speculation. 

The national narrative after the draft was criticism of not drafting a WR. My only point is that though they didn't use the first round pick to help, they did help the team afterwards.

I disagree.  None of the guys they drafted play.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Yes, it’s my prediction that they blew it.  Their LBs are awful. That’s not a prediction, that’s the truth.  Patrick Queen has been playing great ball and would make this defense better.  
 

Imo, the mistake was made the second they decided to draft for the future instead of giving their all time great QB some help.  They don’t have to hope that AR is an all time great. He IS an all time great.  He IS under contract for the next 4 seasons.  They had the making of a super bowl team because they have this all time great QB, even though some here said they had no chance to get back to the nfccg.  
 

this is all obviously just my opinion that has been backed up by the fact that the packer draft class has currently added absolutely nothing to their 4-0 start. 
 

I brought this back up today because I was watching gmfb and they had a segment about it.  They brought up Patrick Queen.  They all agreed with my premise that when you have an all time great like AR that you go all in to win.  Their opinion means nothing, but it got me thinking about this again, hence the bump.

 

I loved Queen too, and I agree with you that the rest of the draft class was not exactly inspiring. I thought I was the biggest fan of Josiah Deguara going..... I put him up on this board numerous times before the draft and I was higher than the "consensus" on him and I had a 4th round grade. I was staggered when the Packers picked him in the third with receivers like our own Gabe Davis still on the board.

 

But that doesn't change anything on Love. Whether it works out or even if it doesn't strategically it was the right move. No doubt about it.

[buffaloboyinATL]

On 9/14/2020 at 4:19 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

The Packers really blew it selecting Aaron Rodgers. I just watched Favre still sling it....

 

Unfair comparison. Favre is using performance enhancing Copper Fit, which is banned by the NFL.

 

😛

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It isn't that easy. If the Packers are a playoff team again (and they were at worst a .500 football team this year) then there is no guarantee a potential franchise guy is sitting there for you picking in the late teens or the 20s. I very much doubt Green Bay went into draft night 2020 saying "man we MUST pick Jordan Love." I suspect much more they said "we really like this kid, we think he can be the guy long term..... if he gets to the back half of the 20s we might want to make a move." You don't always get to pick the years when QBs you like fall to you. They could have passed on Love and then gone two drafts without a guy they like making it their pick or even close to their pick. The you have a 39 year old ARod and what do you do then?

 

Whether it works our long term or not picking Jordan Love was from a strategic team building perspective 100% the right move.

 

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I loved Queen too, and I agree with you that the rest of the draft class was not exactly inspiring. I thought I was the biggest fan of Josiah Deguara going..... I put him up on this board numerous times before the draft and I was higher than the "consensus" on him and I had a 4th round grade. I was staggered when the Packers picked him in the third with receivers like our own Gabe Davis still on the board.

 

But that doesn't change anything on Love. Whether it works out or even if it doesn't strategically it was the right move. No doubt about it.

I hear ya. Team building wise, It could be the right move.  Championship building wise, I think they really screwed up.  Queen was the perfect piece for this Packer defense imo.  Time will tell.