Jump to content
eball

Fish will have 13K fans for opener v. Bills

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

10.3% death rate?  What?  So you divided deaths by number of covid cases, borderline meaningless.  Test everyone in both the cities and then you could have a more valid comparison/point.

 

The population of NYC is 8.3 mill, Stockholm just under 1 million so lets be generous and say NYC has 9x the population and assuming your death numbers are correct the equivalent deaths in Stockholm would be 21,456 (9 times 2,384) versus total NYC covid deaths of 23,662.

 

There is a lot more than naively totaling up covid deaths, with these lockdowns comes tremendous increases in depression, alcoholism, drug abuse, to say nothing of the economic collapse. 

I supplied you with multiple data points knowing you'd cherrypick to fit your agenda. Go ahead and ignore death rate. Mortality per capita still stands. You can't just multiply the deaths based on population, because it's known that population density plays  a massive role, and the impact of it does not scale linearly. 

Stop pretending you care about the science when you're clearly trying to promote a political agenda. You can't be depressed or addicted to drugs if you're dead. That's not even taking into account the long-term disabilities caused by the disease. People that are going to become alcoholics because they have to wear a mask and socially distance, or even because they lose their jobs, are going to be exposed to countless other opportunities for that through the rest of their lives. You treat those people for the underlying cause of those problems. That underlying cause is not COVID. COVID has directly caused death, disability, and job loss, and those are things that can be measured and addressed.

How much did you care about working class people suffering from a poor economy, or those from substance abuse before COVID came around? If you actually care about fixing those issues, progressives will welcome you with open arms.

1 hour ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

If you think National healthcare looked great after what happened in Italy, Spain and the UK, then you might want to go for a brain scan.

If I lived in a country with National Healthcare maybe I would.

Why would what happened in Europe make me think that national healthcare is at all a bad thing? Did survivors walk away with millions of dollars in debt? 

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 8/24/2020 at 8:28 AM, BUFFALOTONE said:

I believe the nurses and doctors who work at Broward General and Jackson Memorial you know the ones on the front lines. I have friends in both hospitals and they are laying off nurses due to how slow they are. Now these hospitals due to their size are the counties hub for Covid treatment, there are def cases there I won't argue that but its not the triage center they are making it out to be. This is a serious thing if you have serious issues or a weak immune system. I deal with testing clinics daily and this is always the hot topic, if you see alerts from the Sun/Orlando Sentinel about the daily death toll open the link and read it, it states "this information was taken over the course of several weeks" not 24 hour period, ye tthey run the death ticker like the NYSE. Cmon man. 

He was actually found in vomit with a male prostitute and drugs, what else do you need to know? He went into rehab ...

You know what they say: if you are preoccupied with a male prostitute and lying in a pool of vomit, at least you aren't actively doing harm to the people of your state.

EDIT: I am not opposed to having fans present in an open air stadium (and about 1/5 of capacity doesn't sound outrageous) provided the plans for spacing them, getting them in and out, into the concessions and bathrooms for fluid intake and outflow purposes, etc., are adequate. I just kinda doubt they will be.

And interesting data point from baseball: early returns suggest a greatly diminished home field advantage with no fans. Given the different configurations of baseball stadiums (as opposed to the cookie cutter football fields) I'm surprised by this.

Edited by The Frankish Reich

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Stop pretending you care about the science when you're clearly trying to promote a political agenda."

 

LOL, classic projection.

 

Not worth debating anymore, you clearly have your agenda which is fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

It's funny how the narrative shift was to cases once the testing had become 5 times more abundant in this country.  FL cases and NY cases are not remotely comparable.  Mount Sinai hospital is estimating NY was peaking around 85K new cases a day in late March.  Florida's one day peak was 15k cases.  NY has suffered many more cases of Covid.  The massive death toll tells us that.

 

The NY death chart mirrors epidemilogist's chart of what would happen if no safety precautions were taken.  Massive infection and death followed by a steep decline in both.  NY just decided to hurt their small businesses on top of that.  You act as in FL didn't have a specific regional plan for reopening.  We did.  I live in an area that had their phase 2 reopening pushed back because the infection and hospitalization metrics weren't where they needed to be.  Again, to assume states who avoided the first wave of covid could avoid spikes in infections after reopening is nonsensical.  The point was to have hospitals ready and not have them get overloaded and guess what, that's what happened, no matter how hard the media wanted to spin it. I never said NY did it the right way.  They did it the quickest way but the loss of life was substantial.  I would never recommend the way they did it.  They really didn't have much of a choice bc it hit them first but again, to say they got it under control is misleading imo.  They basically did Sweden's plan without meaning to.  I only brought Sweden up bc they got on the other side of covid by really doing nothing but let the virus run it's course, which is what NY unintentionally let happen also IMO.

If you think National healthcare looked great after what happened in Italy, Spain and the UK, then you might want to go for a brain scan.

 

NY didn't just "let the virus run its course."  And Mt. Sinai didn't estimate 85k...an author using data partially derived from people at Sinai:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-07-23/new-york-city-s-covid-19-peak-likely-occurred-in-march-not-april

 

Note: Note the asterisk and footnote. The blue line is my estimate, and I’m a journalist who usually writes about business and economics. No epidemiologist or public health official would dispute that there were a lot more actual cases of Covid-19 in New York City than confirmed ones, or that the peak in new infections occurred before the peak in confirmed cases, but the exact ups and downs of the disease depicted above are the product of a bunch of assumptions that may not be entirely correct.

 

While the initial numbers are surely underestimated due to limited testing, as NYC's testing numbers went up, the positive rate declined.  And Sweden is the worst comparison you could have made.

 

When NYS kept reopening back based of regional metrics, it was so Cuomo could "hurt small businesses", but when Florida did so in your region, it was something different?  And which epidemiologist is saying that had NYS or NYC not shut down, it would have had the same number of hospitalizations and deaths than seen with shutdown?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

EgSeyqnWAAAd-Dq?format=png&name=small

 Now that they announced this measure, we certainly will be safe and healthy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

10.3% death rate?  What?  So you divided deaths by number of covid cases,

 

 

That would be the definition of "death rate" for any known disease.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

 Now that they announced this measure, we certainly will be safe and healthy!

Its first 2 games

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

 You can't just multiply the deaths based on population, because it's known that population density plays  a massive role, and the impact of it does not scale linearly. 
 

 

So few understand this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

1) If I wanted to argue to the death about COVID, with no one ever being convinced of anything they didn’t already want to believe - EVER, I’d go on Facebook.

 

2) Re: Miami - GOOD, I want those miserable idiotic Floridians to risk getting COVID just to see their team get beat down in person.

Edited by Coach Tuesday

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 8/24/2020 at 7:56 PM, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

LOL, wtf?? 

 

Do you know how many people live in NYS?  Do you known anyone who can calculate what 20% of that number is?

 

And:

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/11/florida-governor-ron-desantis-interview-393913

 

"The state Agency for Health Care Administration last week estimated that the coronavirus response would lead to a $1.6 billion overrun of a $31.3 billion Medicaid spending plan that took effect July 1. The joint state Legislative Budget Commission must approve any increase in Medicaid spending.

 

The more than $4 billion sent to the state by Congress under the CARES Act so far is needed to balance the state’s budget and close a $2 billion gap in lost tax collections, he said.

DeSantis said he’s exploring the possibility of a loan from the U.S. Department of Labor that could be used to extend jobless benefits that were cut off due to the impasse in Washington."

Look at NY’s debt genius . Florida was not in debt until Covid destroyed tourism unlike NY that was wallowing long before.  And every random test in Ny showed that the infection rate in NY was at least 10 times the known in some cases they found it over 49 times so do the math pal. Should you be out trying to defund the police? When this is over Florida will return to prosperity, any will have a shrinking tax base and a burned out city with little retail and empty sky scrapers...

Edited by Meatloaf63

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Look at NY’s debt genius . Florida was not in debt until Covid destroyed tourism unlike NY that was wallowing long before.  And every random test in Ny showed that the infection rate in NY was at least 10 times the known in some cases they found it over 49 times so do the math pal. Should you be out trying to defund the police? When this is over Florida will return to prosperity, any will have a shrinking tax base and a burned out city with little retail and empty sky scrapers...

 

Random tests!  49 times the math!  Defunding the police!....MAN, I love this place!

 

A year before COVID, "prosperous" Florida was one of the 12 poorest states in the country.  But at least you will still have your "retail" base (consisting mainly of Target, Piggly Wiggly, Spencer's Gifts, 7-Eleven, Quikie Marts) to bring you back to that top (bottom) 10!  

 

Those "empty skyscrapers" are still signing new leases for $800-900 a sq foot (and that's down from over $1000).. Miami averages $50 (which, as you know, is about the cost of a carton of Newports at the Sam's Club, or a meal for a family of 5 at the Cracker Barrel).

 

Yeah, all those city slickers in New York are pretty much stuck in that "hell hole"!  Good news for you is that if a certain part of Florida becomes especially nasty even for a native, you can always screw the wheels back on  your double wide, hang the Stars and Bars off the back, hook it up to your dually 3500 and drive it to the next strip mall city of your liking and enjoy even more "prosperity"!

 

 

  • Thanks! (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/25/2020 at 12:39 PM, soflabillsfan1 said:

It's funny how the narrative shift was to cases once the testing had become 5 times more abundant in this country.  FL cases and NY cases are not remotely comparable.  Mount Sinai hospital is estimating NY was peaking around 85K new cases a day in late March.

 

Um, Negative.  From the article quoted:

Sources: Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, New York State Department of Health, Covid-19 Scenarios, New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, author's calculations *As estimated by the author, who is not an epidemiologist

Basically, a journalist who usually writes about business and economics does some estimation he doesn't really explain and all of a sudden it's a factual thing?  He writes:

"No epidemiologist or public health official would dispute that there were a lot more actual cases of Covid-19 in New York City than confirmed ones, or that the peak in new infections occurred before the peak in confirmed cases, but the exact ups and downs of the disease depicted above are the product of a bunch of assumptions that may not be entirely correct. I will describe those assumptions and their possible flaws below, but I’m convinced "

He's quite correct that no one knowledgeable would dispute that there were a lot more actual cases of covid-19 than confirmed ones.  I'm not so confident that no one would dispute that the peak in new infections occurred before the peak in confirmed cases.  There are a bunch of assumptions there.

 

On 8/25/2020 at 12:39 PM, soflabillsfan1 said:

The NY death chart mirrors epidemilogist's chart of what would happen if no safety precautions were taken.

 

Sorry, this is baloney.  Not sure where you're getting this from.

 

On 8/25/2020 at 12:39 PM, soflabillsfan1 said:

 Again, to assume states who avoided the first wave of covid could avoid spikes in infections after reopening is nonsensical. 

 

Other countries that didn't have a huge surge in infections and deaths have mostly avoided these spikes.  We can't do what other countries can do, why?

 

 

On 8/25/2020 at 2:45 PM, Mr. WEO said:

That would be the definition of "death rate" for any known disease.

 

To be more specific, that would be the definition of "case fatality rate" for any known disease.

 

Determining the actual "infection fatality rate" is, as we know, more fraught as it involves somehow estimating the actual number of cases, and also somehow determining the actual number of deaths, as some people die at home or die in hospital before being diagnosed from what, by symptoms, is probably covid-19.  The excess death rate this year is not completely accounted for by covid-19 deaths and untreated heart disease etc is probably not enough to fill the gap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Um, Negative.  From the article quoted:

Sources: Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, New York State Department of Health, Covid-19 Scenarios, New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, author's calculations *As estimated by the author, who is not an epidemiologist

Basically, a journalist who usually writes about business and economics does some estimation he doesn't really explain and all of a sudden it's a factual thing?  He writes:

"No epidemiologist or public health official would dispute that there were a lot more actual cases of Covid-19 in New York City than confirmed ones, or that the peak in new infections occurred before the peak in confirmed cases, but the exact ups and downs of the disease depicted above are the product of a bunch of assumptions that may not be entirely correct. I will describe those assumptions and their possible flaws below, but I’m convinced "
 

He's quite correct that no one knowledgeable would dispute that there were a lot more actual cases of covid-19 than confirmed ones.  I'm not so confident that no one would dispute that the peak in new infections occurred before the peak in confirmed cases.  There are a bunch of assumptions there.

 

Sorry, this is baloney.  Not sure where you're getting this from.

 

Other countries that didn't have a huge surge in infections and deaths have mostly avoided these spikes.  We can't do what other countries can do, why?

 

To be more specific, that would be the definition of "case fatality rate" for any known disease.

 

Determining the actual "infection fatality rate" is, as we know, more fraught as it involves somehow estimating the actual number of cases, and also somehow determining the actual number of deaths, as some people die at home or die in hospital before being diagnosed from what, by symptoms, is probably covid-19.  The excess death rate this year is not completely accounted for by covid-19 deaths and untreated heart disease etc is probably not enough to fill the gap.

 

For the purpose of this discussion, they are equivalent.  Regardless, that's a hair that that particular poster wouldn't not split, to be kind...

 

Also, I posted that same article and THAT poster vanished subsequently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

For the purpose of this discussion, they are equivalent.  Regardless, that's a hair that that particular poster wouldn't not split, to be kind...

Also, I posted that same article and THAT poster vanished subsequently.

 

I understand your point, but "death rate" gets used for both, so I do think it's worth clarifying...after all the person to whom you're responding is not the only one reading.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I understand your point, but "death rate" gets used for both, so I do think it's worth clarifying...after all the person to whom you're responding is not the only one reading.

 

 

They are heavily represented here though...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/24/2020 at 11:21 AM, Logic said:


And America is the Florida of the world ?

Do you really believe this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Um, Negative.  From the article quoted:

Sources: Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, New York State Department of Health, Covid-19 Scenarios, New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, author's calculations *As estimated by the author, who is not an epidemiologist

Basically, a journalist who usually writes about business and economics does some estimation he doesn't really explain and all of a sudden it's a factual thing?  He writes:

"No epidemiologist or public health official would dispute that there were a lot more actual cases of Covid-19 in New York City than confirmed ones, or that the peak in new infections occurred before the peak in confirmed cases, but the exact ups and downs of the disease depicted above are the product of a bunch of assumptions that may not be entirely correct. I will describe those assumptions and their possible flaws below, but I’m convinced "

He's quite correct that no one knowledgeable would dispute that there were a lot more actual cases of covid-19 than confirmed ones.  I'm not so confident that no one would dispute that the peak in new infections occurred before the peak in confirmed cases.  There are a bunch of assumptions there.

 

Ok, you're right.  Still doesn't really change the truth.  NY and NYC had much higher levels of cases than FL.  Florida's spike would look like nothing compared to the cases in NY if the testing was at the same levels. We know FL was performing 300-400% more tests during their peak than NY was during their peak.

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

 

Sorry, this is baloney.  Not sure where you're getting this from.

 

I don't know.  The charts look pretty similar to me.

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

 

Other countries that didn't have a huge surge in infections and deaths have mostly avoided these spikes.  We can't do what other countries can do, why?

 

 

Which countries were those? Some little small, homogeneous Nordic country?  Most states and countries who didn't have a first wave of cases, had a spike in the summer.  Even Japan, Australia, Israel etc experienced spikes.  You can't run from a virus.  You have to face it sooner or later. The idea that you can open any of these states that didn't have a 1st wave of infections, let alone a state with 20+ million people and not see a rise in cases in illogical.  Red and blue states who both missed the 1st wave all had major increases in cases this summer from California and Oregon to FL and Texas.

thumbnailqwq.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will try to bring this conversation away from Covid and back to tickets for the Fins.  Does anyone know how tickets are being dispersed for the Bills game?  There is a chance I am in Miami that day and would like to try and go.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...