Gunner's roster thread.... 2020 style - UPDATED

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Then maybe the surprise is Davis Webb on the 53?

 

That would be a surprise but Sal has said a couple of times on WGR that he has had a really solid camp. Barkley has been "up and down" and Fromm "started slowly has picked up a little."

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

That would be a surprise but Sal has said a couple of times on WGR that he has had a really solid camp. Barkley has been "up and down" and Fromm "started slowly has picked up a little."

 

Yeah I've been hearing the same things.  Which is why I thought Fromm stays since he could be poached.  The thing is Webb is unproven in real games and his pre-season last year was dismal.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah I've been hearing the same things.  Which is why I thought Fromm stays since he could be poached.  The thing is Webb is unproven in real games and his pre-season last year was dismal.

 

He wasn't here for pre-season last year.... do you mean for the Jets? And absolutely it is unproven which is why I can't see the coaches taking it as sufficient reason to retain him. 

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

He wasn't here for pre-season last year.... do you mean for the Jets? And absolutely it is unproven which is why I can't see the coaches taking it as sufficient reason to retain him. 

 

Yeah with the Jets.  Again I think he can easily be put on the PS.  So the question is Barkley or Fromm.  Again I can't see them keeping 3 QBs because of roster limitations.

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah with the Jets.  Again I think he can easily be put on the PS.  So the question is Barkley or Fromm.  Again I can't see them keeping 3 QBs because of roster limitations.

 

With the vets being allowed on the PS and the PS having no pay limits I wonder how many 
bubble" vets around the league will agree to be cut and sign with the PS.

 

In theory, Barkley can be cut and Fromme kept (thus not exposing him).  Barkley signs to the practice squad for 1 million +.

With the new PS "call up" rules things like this just may happen this year.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah with the Jets.  Again I think he can easily be put on the PS.  So the question is Barkley or Fromm.  Again I can't see them keeping 3 QBs because of roster limitations.

 

My worry with Josh and Fromm would be it means if Josh goes down in game you are turning it over to Fromm. Not sure he is ready for that by all accounts. I know that with the new 55 man rule you can call Barkley up each week and make him active, but the 4th week you do that he than has to go on your active roster. 

[eball]

48 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Per Sal the best of the QBs not name Josh Allen has been Davis Webb. I just can't see a way he gets kept. 

 

This is where the stuff we don't see really comes into play.  Recall, it was Webb who supposedly "ran" the practices in Florida this summer and was mentioned as being future coaching material.  I could see McD wanting to keep a guy like that in the mix.  But that said, it's still a bit of a longshot.

[Lurker]

50 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Per Sal the best of the QBs not name Josh Allen has been Davis Webb. I just can't see a way he gets kept. 

 

I think they keep Barkley and Webb to start the season and go light on TE.   With all the upgrades at WR and the expected huge number of targets that Diggs will get, the opportunities for the TEs will be reduced--so keeping three seems like a luxury...

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

I think they keep Barkley and Webb to start the season and go light on TE.   With all the upgrades at WR and the expected huge number of targets that Diggs will get, the opportunities for the TEs will be reduced--so keeping three seems like a luxury...

 

Daboll uses a lot of two tight end sets though. I think only two tight ends is unlikely. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

This is my guess for offense and what I know for the specialists.  The defense I don't have a good read on so I'm not going to bother.

 

QB-Allen, Fromm (surprise move, Barkley +/- Webb likely won't be poached and can be placed on PS to help Josh)

RB-Singletary, Moss, Jones (Wade similarly can be put on PS)

FB-Gilliam (DiMarco has been injured and is getting old)

TE-Knox, Kroft, Smith, Croom (Sweeney on PUP)

OL-Dawkins, Spain, Morse, Ford, Williams, Nsekhe, Winter, Bates, Feliciano (IR-R after first game and they bring back one of the cuts)

WR-Diggs, Brown, Beasley, Davis, Roberts, Duke (Hodgins and McK can probably be PS'd and Foster probably IR'd)

 

Now I could see Lee Smith being cut and them keeping an extra WR.

 

Specialists-Reid, Bojo, Bass

 

Come at me!

 

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

I struggled with the 6th WR spot.  Again it was more of a "who can they cut and get back onto the PS" thing and McK was an UFA and didn't get any offers and Hodgins is a 7th round rookie.

 

No way to Duke!  Hodkins is a 7th rounder, that trumps a FA who's bounced around a few years.  Duke served a purpose last year as he was the one true big WR they had.  That's no longer the case as both Davis and Hodkins can fill that spot.

 

For the same reason, can't see Croom making it either.  He also filled a role as a big almost a WR type TE.  Now with the improvments in their WR group and the added size, no need for him either.

 

Two weeks ago, I'd have agreed about Smith as would have picked Sweeney over him, but with Sweeney on PUP think makes Smith secure.

 

If Jones doesn't get healthy soon could see Yeldon taking his spot.  Not sure if Yeldon has been playing some ST lately or not??

 

For same reason and saves some $$ wouldn't be too shocked to see Gilliam take DeMarco's spot either.  Didn't I read that Gilliam was a ST stud in college??  Make you keep him for ST and then not as much need for Yeldon to play ST.  Would like to see Yeldon active as he does offer something as a pass receiving RB.  Again maybe not needed as much as sounds like Moss could also fill that role.

[ColoradoBills]

14 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

I think they keep Barkley and Webb to start the season and go light on TE.   With all the upgrades at WR and the expected huge number of targets that Diggs will get, the opportunities for the TEs will be reduced--so keeping three seems like a luxury...

 

I don't see any team signing Webb to their 53 at cut down.

Webb to the PS for the Bills is almost a certain.

[eball]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Daboll uses a lot of two tight end sets though. I think only two tight ends is unlikely. 

 

Agreed.  Daboll wants week-to-week flexibility.  Three TEs are making this roster.

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Agreed.  Daboll wants week-to-week flexibility.  Three TEs are making this roster.

 

Well it's looking like Sweeney will be going from PUP to IR unless something new happens in the next couple of days.

Knox and Kroft are locks. 

Looks like its between Smith and Croom for the 3rd spot.

 

Nate Becker is a big blocking TE and if he looked good in camp he goes to the PS and possibly become Lee Smith's replacement someday.

[Doc]

58 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

My worry with Josh and Fromm would be it means if Josh goes down in game you are turning it over to Fromm. Not sure he is ready for that by all accounts. I know that with the new 55 man rule you can call Barkley up each week and make him active, but the 4th week you do that he than has to go on your active roster. 

 

I haven't see a good explanation of the rules for PS elevations.  Do you have a link?

 

32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Daboll uses a lot of two tight end sets though. I think only two tight ends is unlikely. 

 

If they keep 3 QBs they can keep 3 TEs.  Unless they want to keep 7 WRs.  Or 4 HBs.

 

Or unless they want to keep 24 offensive players.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Doc

[ColoradoBills]

8 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I haven't see a good explanation of the rules for PS elevations.  Do you have a link?

 

 

If they keep 3 QBs they can keep 3 TEs.  Unless they want to keep 7 WRs.  Or 4 HBs.

 

This is a good explanation.  It was done after the new CBA was signed but before the 12-16 increase of PS size.

I don't think the PS player elevation rules changed.

I've read everywhere that you can "elevate" a player only twice.

If anyone has seen something different I sure would like to see it.

 

You would think with all the rule changes and cut down coming up that some current breakdowns would be out there!

Instead of that you got sportswriters ranking the Bills at 26!  LOL

 

https://www.ninersnation.com/2020/5/3/21245216/explaining-the-roster-sizes-and-practice-squad-rules-under-the-new-cba

[TigerJ]

I think Webb has a shot to make the 53 man roster, while Fromm could either make their roster as a third QB or be put on the PS. He has a better arm and more athleticism than Barkley, and while Barkley has more years in the league, Webb is regarded as being very smart.  He ran the practices for the group of players that Josh Allen recruited to practice in Florida.  I think Gilliam has a shot to displace DiMarco at FB.  He's bigger and stronger, more athletic and is a core special teamer.  The only area where he's inferior is experience, and he comes much cheaper.  I think Harrison Phillips is close to being a lock.  

[ALF]

Cut down this season will be difficult but a good problem to have along with a larger PS . The problem is any covid cases.

[MasterStrategist]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Okay a week before cutdowns here is my update:

 

BLACK - Lock for the roster if healthy

BLUE - Likely to make it if healthy but not a lock

RED - Fighting for a spot

 

Note: Red does not mean no chance... it means fighting for a spot. Every year people get that wrong. 

 

Quarterbacks

Josh Allen

Matt Barkley

Jake Fromm

Davis Webb

 

Running backs

Zack Moss

Devin Singletary

Patrick DiMarco FB

Taiwan Jones (was previously RED)

Reggie Gilliam FB

Christian Wade (Int.)

T. J. Yeldon

 

Wide receivers

Stefon Diggs

Cole Beasley

John Brown

Gabriel Davis

Andre Roberts

Robert Foster

Isaiah Hodgins

Isaiah McKenzie

Duke Williams

Nick Easley

 

Tight ends

Dawson Knox

Lee Smith

Tyler Kroft

Tommy Sweeney

Nate Becker

Jason Croom

 

Offensive line

Dion Dawkins

Jon Feliciano*

Cody Ford

Mitch Morse

Quinton Spain

Daryl Williams (was previously BLUE)

Ty Nsekhe

Brian Winters

Ryan Bates

Trey Adams

Evan Boehm

Ike Boettger

Victor Salako

Brandon Walton 

Marquel Harrell 

 

Defensive line

Mario Addison

Vernon Butler

A. J. Epenesa

Jerry Hughes

Quinton Jefferson

Ed Oliver

Trent Murphy (previously in RED)

Harrison Phillips

Darryl Johnson

Mike Love

Niles Scott

Vincent Taylor

Bryan Cox Jr.

Tanzel Smart

Justin Zimmer

 

Linebackers

A. J. Klein

Tremaine Edmunds

Matt Milano

Tyler Matakevich

Tyrel Dodson

Vosean Joseph

Del'Shawn Phillips

Corey Thompson

 

Corner

Taron Johnson

Levi Wallace

Tre'Davious White

Siran Neal (previously in RED)

Josh Norman

Brian Allen

Dane Jackson

Cam Lewis

Ike Brown

 

Safety

Micah Hyde

Jordan Poyer

Jaquan Johnson

Dean Marlowe

Josh Thomas

 

Specialists

Reid Ferguson

Steven Hauschka 

Tyler Bass (previously in RED)

Corey Bojorquez (previously in RED)

Kaare Vedvik

 

Conclusions

I made 6 changes to last time. I changed Taiwan Jones to blue because I think he and Yeldon are essentially in a battle for the 3rd running back position - the receiving back if you like. And Jones has a definite edge because he has won the job as the starting gunner by all accounts and those back of the roster battles come down to special teams prowess as well we all know. Daryl Williams I changed from blue to black because in all the reports from camp it does feel as though he has spent plenty of time with the first team unit (in so much as we can gather from the pieces of information we get). I think he has a very good shot at being the starting right tackle. Barring injury he has made the team. Trent Murphy I have gone to blue because we know from Brown's faux pas that he has been ahead of Addison with the first team unit in certain packages. I still think his cap number means he is a guy the Bills will have a conversation about when cut downs come, but ultimately I think he now more likely than not makes the squad. Siran Neal I got wrong the first time. He should really have been blue not red, and again, when I factor in positional flex (nickel, safety, the dime) and the comments about his performance on special teams I can't see a way he doesn't make it. Finally the two specialists..... some will wonder why I have only been willing to go from red to blue and not black as the competition has all been cut from the roster suggesting that England have very much settled on their kicker and punter. I think that both are absolutely in black to make the 53 on cut down day..... but I still think the Bills will have an eye on who else shakes loose at the specialist spots when other teams make cuts. And while I think Bass and Bojo are likely on our opening day 53 I don't consider either to be a lock quite yet. We still need better production from both spots than there has been in camp based on the reports. 

I'll say the same as I did before:

1. OL: winters is a lock, guaranteed money (no cap savings), and our best RG until Mongo is back

2. TE: Sweeney is either healthy, then makes the team OR he gets IRd.  He is not going to be released, id at least move him to Blue

3. DL: harrison phillips has always and will be making the team.  Dont get why he isn't a lock. by all accounts is looking good in TC and was off to a great season last year before injury

4. LB: Makatavech is a lock, not sure why he's blue.  He's our best ST guy and was specifically signed for that role (replace Zo).  I'd consider Thompson and Dodson "very blue" right now, as well

5. CB: Norman is a lock, if he misses any gamete that's still.to be seen, but he's not getting cut.  Weird take om that.

6. Kickers: I get the sentiment about Bojo, he always needs to be looking over his shoulder/competing.  But Bass, really?! I mean he's been as advertised and many, including myself, said he had a much better shot making this team than Housemoney.  Bass isn't going anywhere, he's a "lock".  

[Doc]

29 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

This is a good explanation.  It was done after the new CBA was signed but before the 12-16 increase of PS size.

I don't think the PS player elevation rules changed.

I've read everywhere that you can "elevate" a player only twice.

If anyone has seen something different I sure would like to see it.

 

You would think with all the rule changes and cut down coming up that some current breakdowns would be out there!

Instead of that you got sportswriters ranking the Bills at 26!  LOL

 

https://www.ninersnation.com/2020/5/3/21245216/explaining-the-roster-sizes-and-practice-squad-rules-under-the-new-cba

 

Thanks.  So it appears the Bills could elevate Barkley and/or Webb twice, waive him/them and then re-sign him/them and do it repeatedly.

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Thanks.  So it appears the Bills could elevate Barkley and/or Webb twice, waive him/them and then re-sign him/them and do it repeatedly.

 

• If he clears waivers and resigns to the Practice Squad of his original Club, the player may not be elevated under the special Section 5 conditions for the remainder of that regular or postseason.