C.Biscuit97 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 On 8/8/2020 at 10:13 PM, MJS said: That's one way to interpret the data. No matter how you slice it, game winning drives are good. They have become completely overrated here and not all game winning drives are the same. Some facts. 1) that loser Pat Mahomes only has 3!!! In 2 years. Clearly, the Bills made the right decision passing on him. He didn’t have a game winning drive when his team scored 51 points. Clearly, he isn’t clutch. 2) overrated and rb playing qb Lamar Jackson, who is clearly going to regress, only had 3 in 2 years. If he was probably more clutch, his record would be better than his terrible 19-3 it currently is. anti clutch Brady only had 1. Might have won more SBs if you were more clutch Tom! 3) Mark Sanchez aka captain comeback had 9 in two years!!! Josh Freeman has 5 in 2010. Blake Bortles has 5 in 2015. To sum this up: if you play with an awesome defense, you have a lot of chances for come backs if you offense isn’t good. Because if you play with an awesome defense and you have a good offense, you don’t need to come back because the game is over by the 4th. Pat Mahomes, even with a subpar defense, doesn’t need 4th comebacks because he is so awesome the entire game, they are won long before the 4th. so again, have a game winning SB drive against the number 1 defense (Mahomes) or Montana is slightly different than coming back to beat Duck and his 3 ints 17-10 or beating Marcus Mariota and 4 missed FGs 14-7. Some of you love this stat such much. Allen could be a much, much, much better qb this year (God willing) with 0 4th quarter comebacks. 5 hours ago, GunnerBill said: The clutch gene, imo, is real. Wilson was actually questioned the same way his first 2 years. "Yea he has loads of game winning drives but easier to pull them off when your defense has held the opposition to 13 points." But as the Seattle D began to crumble Wilson kept pulling out 4th Quarter comebacks. He isn't pulling out 17-13 wins now it is 30-27 wins. That doesn't guarantee Josh will be the same (Wilson is freaking brilliant) but I think it is possible that the story is similar. Very valid point. I think Wilson was a much, much better passer than Allen At a similar stage in their careers though. 8 hours ago, Big Blitz said: Singletary missing the first half of the season was a bigger deal than people realize. No excuse for the O as a whole. But when your RB1 is Frank Gore. And don't forget the mentality of the coaches was no doubt to win, but also do so while developing this "project" QB. We've sure come a long way from suicidal on draft night to nitpicking his 4th quarter comebacks. Just more context re last year. We played the Patriots twice. The Ravens. The Steelers. Those were the elite defenses in the NFL that had truly impressive seasons. And we were better in the 2nd game vs New England and it was at their place. We figured out the Ravens a little bit in the 4th quarter. And we beat that Steelers D that was red hot, in Pittsburgh. Take out those games and the finale vs the Jets and our O averaged 22 points per game in the others. The Steelers and 49ers will be the only defenses close to what we saw last year. Allen is further developed. Diggs. Better RB situation. No reason to not be extremely optimistic. Get that 22 ppg to 27 and we'll be just fine. No offense but why do people do this? You know averages work right? What if we take out Miami? How does average look then? Or the crappy Giants? the Ravens played a much harder defensive schedule and averaged 33 points/ game. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAndrew Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 10 hours ago, ganesh said: Agree in principle. The reason Gore was on the field early: * Singletary was not ready early in the season * Singletary was injured early in the season * Singletary and Yeldon had ball securing issues As the season went on, the coin did get flipped. I think we should blame Daboll more for not involving Singletary late in the 4th quarter. I think people also forget that Gore wasn’t bad early in the season. The problem began when he was on the field in crucial situations late in the year, when he had nothing left in the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 11 hours ago, DCbillsfan said: The Bills offense needs to score more points. Yeah the defense muffed up against the Texans but you're not going to win many playoff games scoring one touchdown and a handful of FGs. Also, I look at this playoff loss as one of those losses that almost every pro team experiences before becoming a good team. The Bills should be focused and determined. It’s really that simple. 1) the first Jets game should have had them blowing us out but our defense stood on their head 2) we scored a td all game against Ten and they missed 4 fgs. Then we made our historic comeback. 3) duck was so bad yet it took 10 points in the 4th to win these games. thise were bad offensive games that resulted in even having to “comeback.” 21 hours ago, ScottLaw said: My bias? I like Josh a hell of a lot more than Tyrod and Fitz, but to this point a Josh Allen offense hasn't produced MORE than what Tyrod and that offense did in 2015 and 2016.... I acknowledge his ceiling is way higher. People love to throw out the game winning drives as a predictor of success. Mark Sanchez and Tim Tebow led the league in 4th quarter comebacks too early in their careers. This nails it. This has always been my problem with the Allen pick (and prospects like this). They are a million more times physically talented than Fitz and to a lesser degree Tyrod. But what has he really produced that is better than them. Folks don’t want to here it but Fitz might be the best qb in the division right now. now obviously that should hopefully change. But a lot of Allen’s whole career has been more hype than results and this goes all the way back to college. A guy with his talent should made 1st or 2nd team in MWC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 On 8/8/2020 at 10:01 PM, Penfield45 said: I'm not gonna hate on Allen for his game winning drives. but our offense seriously needs to step up next season. We have a SB winning caliber defense with an offense than can barely score more than 2 TD's per game. We were down 16-0 midway through the 3rd quarter at the jets week 1. 4 turnovers - 2 deflected passes, a muffed snap, and a whiffed blindside block. Nothing had gone right to that point in the game other than a couple of missed kicks by the jets. However Buffalo had 160 yards at half, its not like they weren't moving the ball at all. And when it came down to it - Allen put up drives that put 17 points on the board and won the game. 3 minutes left, darnold continued to do not much of anything. The bengals game was as much on the defense than anything else - they gave up 17 points over 3 straight drives following the allen INT. I'm sure Russel Wilson has to give back his 4th quarter comeback that he earned against cincy too... Hell - Seattle only had 232 yards in the entire game against the bengals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, dneveu said: We were down 16-0 midway through the 3rd quarter at the jets week 1. 4 turnovers - 2 deflected passes, a muffed snap, and a whiffed blindside block. Nothing had gone right to that point in the game other than a couple of missed kicks by the jets. However Buffalo had 160 yards at half, its not like they weren't moving the ball at all. And when it came down to it - Allen put up drives that put 17 points on the board and won the game. 3 minutes left, darnold continued to do not much of anything. The bengals game was as much on the defense than anything else - they gave up 17 points over 3 straight drives following the allen INT. I'm sure Russel Wilson has to give back his 4th quarter comeback that he earned against cincy too... Hell - Seattle only had 232 yards in the entire game against the bengals. Yep - those first three games the Bills offense moved the ball as well as any three game stretch in the season. We were behind at the Jets because of freak turnovers for the most part and when we played Cincy they were still competing, as they did against Seattle as you refer to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yep - those first three games the Bills offense moved the ball as well as any three game stretch in the season. We were behind at the Jets because of freak turnovers for the most part and when we played Cincy they were still competing, as they did against Seattle as you refer to. Just like every stat that points to him being good, there's one that says he isn't. It'll have to play out on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rk_Bills86 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 I find this hilarious - because the O last year was leaps and bounds better than Allen's first year. Dude is a project QB - who has shown excellent growth. The question is - does it continue. I hate the mass of people that want instant championships and instant hall of fame QB play. Not to mention there are far more variables at work here - O-line was in it's first year together, RB was interesting and clearly needed time to learn, WR first years in our system, etc... All of these posts would really only be relevant AFTER this coming season. It's year 3, same OC, lots of returning members on O, good continuity, with a Mid to High Tier WR1 and a Mid to Low Tier WR 1 as our WR 2, our Slot WR is solid, Rookie TE got to learn on the fly and gets to show improvement (or maybe not - tbd), RB 2 is no longer the ageless plow that gains negative yards more often than positive after game 4 of the season (actual value unknown at this point - but I imagine can't be worse). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 On 8/9/2020 at 5:46 AM, \GoBillsInDallas/ said: oh you beat me to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 9 hours ago, dneveu said: Just like every stat that points to him being good, there's one that says he isn't. It'll have to play out on the field. I actually think the majority of stats point to Allen being a mid-tier starter on the upswing. The extreme takes on him both positive and negative are pretty hard to justify statistically imo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) So this debate has me thinking about does Josh Allen have the clutch gene which many of us agree is real ( @GunnerBill) or is this stat about 4th quarter comebacks wrong again (Sanchez/Tebow), again agree this stat is not a good predictor. So far in this thread one of the unmentioned point is Allens 4th quarter numbers overall. Buffalo Fanatics said he was the BEST 4th quarter quarterback and I think it’s hard to disagree. I will agree sometimes Josh is a big part of the reason we need a comeback. But based on his 4th quarter stats and the ways in which he put us on the door step of a tying or winning (Pats x2, Browns, Ravens, Texans) in other games, I think we can say he has the clutch gene. He needs to get more consistent and then some of these will not be comebacks or will be game sealing drives. But I think we can feel good he has a clutch gene. Edited August 11, 2020 by YattaOkasan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) 21 hours ago, GunnerBill said: The clutch gene, imo, is real. Wilson was actually questioned the same way his first 2 years. "Yea he has loads of game winning drives but easier to pull them off when your defense has held the opposition to 13 points." But as the Seattle D began to crumble Wilson kept pulling out 4th Quarter comebacks. He isn't pulling out 17-13 wins now it is 30-27 wins. That doesn't guarantee Josh will be the same (Wilson is freaking brilliant) but I think it is possible that the story is similar. Great point about Wilson. He was backed by a ridiculous defense his first 2-3 years in the league. And a solid ground game. I like both the game winning drives stat for Allen and the 3rd and 10+ QB Rating/conversion percentage stat for Allen. Those are two qualities of a great QB in the making. Edited August 11, 2020 by Sammy Watkins' Rib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 On 8/8/2020 at 10:01 PM, Penfield45 said: I'm not gonna hate on Allen for his game winning drives. but our offense seriously needs to step up next season. We have a SB winning caliber defense with an offense than can barely score more than 2 TD's per game. Don't hate on Allen for his game winning drives. Hate on him for his inability to play the QB position at a high enough level, consistently enough. There's the rub. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 9 hours ago, Nextmanup said: Don't hate on Allen for his game winning drives. Hate on him for his inability to play the QB position at a high enough level, consistently enough. There's the rub. Well said. If he and the offense were consistent last year, there would have been no need for those game winning drives. It’s one thing if this year, he brings us back for a 27-24 win against KC or Seattle. It’s another thing when it’s a 17-10 win against Duck and 14-7 against Mariota. I pray this season happens because this will let us know if he’s the guy or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts