EDIT: Hyde(#10) White(#3) and Edmunds(#7) with high ranks from ESPN

[Stank_Nasty]

ESPN continued their rankings through the week with Top ten Cb's today and top ten LB's yesterday. Our guys came in hot and i cant disagree with their respective slots too much. Some good reads on our guys here!

 

White came in behind Gilmore and Ramsey...https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/29467257/ranking-nfl-top-10-cornerbacks-2020-new-wave-shutdown-stalwarts

 

3. Tre'Davious White, Buffalo Bills

Age: 25 | Highest ranking: 1 | Lowest ranking: 8

White is coming off a huge season in Buffalo and has the league's attention in a big way.

"He tackles, can play zone or man, can cover best guy, helps in run support -- the complete package," said one NFL passing game coordinator. "Only knock on him was turnovers, but he answered that this year."

White tied Gilmore and Vikings safety Anthony Harris for the league lead with six interceptions. White also tied Gilmore and Steelers corner Joe Haden for third place in disrupted dropbacks -- sacks, interceptions, batted or tipped passes -- with 18.

And if it wasn't obvious White likes to shadow the best player, he finished second to Gilmore in targets as the nearest defender without giving up a touchdown (84).

White has the perfect setup in Buffalo, which is one of the league's most disciplined defenses with playmaking safeties Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer anchoring the middle.

Playing in a bigger market such as New York City or Dallas would only amplify White's star wattage.

"His technique is impressive," said an NFL defensive assistant coach. "He's arrived as a top-flight guy."

 

Edmunds came in behind Bobby Wagner, Lavonte David, Eric Kendricks, Darius Leonard, Demario Davis, and Deion Jones...

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/29460392/ranking-nfl-top-10-linebackers-2020-best-hybrid-playmakers-d

 

7. Tremaine Edmunds, Buffalo Bills

Age: 22 | Highest ranking: 3 | Lowest ranking: Off the ballot

Edmunds is still one of the NFL's best-kept secrets. He quietly flies around New Era Field, and many of those polled gladly stack him in their top six.

"He's the epitome of freaky," one AFC scout said. "He's a cornerstone guy, about the right stuff, works hard and has serious range."

Added a veteran NFL offensive coach: "He'll be No. 1 on this list soon. Tremendous athlete."

Edmunds is still evolving in pass defense, but he uses his range and 6-foot-5, 236-pound frame to dominate the run. Edmunds led all linebackers with 20 "run stuffs," a stop for no gain or a loss, according to Next Gen Stats.

"He's still raw, and sometimes he's in the wrong run fits, but once he sees the ball, he runs it down within five yards better than anybody," said a veteran NFL linebacker. "And he'll clean up the shortcomings. He's talented enough to do that."

 

EDIT: Instead of starting a whole new thread i'm just gonna toss Hyde's summary in here. He came in at #10 among safeties and i cant gripe too much about anyone in front of him. Adams, Harry Smith, Fitz, James, Byard, Mathieu, Simmons, eddie jackson, budda baker.....

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/29474895/ranking-nfl-top-10-safeties-2020-rise-jamal-adams

10. Micah Hyde, Buffalo Bills

Age: 29 | Highest ranking: 2 | Lowest ranking: Off the ballot

As usual, the last spot required a tiebreaker. This time, Hyde edged out Jimmie Ward and Landon Collins.

Ward, who's basically a co-No. 10 based on the voting, is a smoother athlete, but Hyde is more complete and more durable.

Evaluators lauded Hyde's versatility in coverage.

"He can line up on a third receiver, a tight end or a James White-type out of the backfield," one NFL coordinator said. "There aren't a lot of guys who can do that. And he's an effective blitzer and tackler."

Hyde's pass disruption was down in 2019 (two deflections, one interception), but his five-interception season in 2017 showed what happens when offenses test him too much. Plus, Buffalo plays a lot of quarters coverage that forces teams to throw underneath.

The Bills rarely give up explosive plays, and Hyde is a huge reason why.

"Not a major athlete but has great instincts and extremely smart," an NFL passing game coordinator said

Edited July 17, 2020 by Stank_Nasty

[Kirby Jackson]

Dawkins was 14 OT (left and right) and Diggs 11 as well. The safeties are tomorrow. I’d expect Poyer to land in that top 15 somewhere.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[Franco_92]

Gilmore only didn't have any targets resulting in TDs because Brown torched him so bad Mccourty had to take the L in that stat. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by arcane

[Stank_Nasty]

29 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Dawkins was 14 OT (left and right) and Diggs 11 as well. The safeties are tomorrow. I’d expect Poyer to land in that top 15 somewhere.

ya. i caught dawkins and made that thread. i missed the diggs ranking.... interested to see where the safeties land for us.

 

i dont disagree with the edmunds ranking but was surprised to see him at 7. i figured i'd scroll to the honorable mentions to see any mention of him because he just hasn’t garnered a ton of attention. League execs have obviously noticed his play it seems 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Stank_Nasty

[DCOrange]

Honestly think they're overrating Edmunds as he currently is, but he certainly has that kind of potential.

 

Also, pretty crazy to see Richard Sherman only show up in the honorable mentions section. He was pretty much incredible last season and arguably better than White.

[MJS]

22 minutes ago, arcane said:

Gilmore only didn't have any targets resulting in TDs because Brown torched him so bad Mccourty had to take the L in that stat. 

Yep, he got abused on that play.

[Stank_Nasty]

29 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Honestly think they're overrating Edmunds as he currently is, but he certainly has that kind of potential.

 

Also, pretty crazy to see Richard Sherman only show up in the honorable mentions section. He was pretty much incredible last season and arguably better than White.

my initial reaction on edmunds was that it seem a couple slots high. but i think it really shows how much more the people inside the league have noticed him as opposed to fans and media. he's obviously making his mark so far in his short career. exciting stuff!

 

and i agree on sherman. criminally low

[Starr Almighty]

49 minutes ago, arcane said:

Gilmore only didn't have any targets resulting in TDs because Brown torched him so bad Mccourty had to take the L in that stat. 

The way it's written makes it seem like that. But his stats show he gave up 1 TD last season and that was to Smoke

[DBilz2500]

Isn’t Edmunds much better covering the pass than he is in run defense? 

[WMDman]

3 minutes ago, DBilz2500 said:

Isn’t Edmunds much better covering the pass than he is in run defense? 

as far as the eye test goes, that seems too be the case

[DBilz2500]

17 minutes ago, WMDman said:

as far as the eye test goes, that seems too be the case

Just strange that the article raved about his run stopping ability but said his pass coverage was still a work in progress ?

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, DBilz2500 said:

Isn’t Edmunds much better covering the pass than he is in run defense? 

 

His length allows him to disrupt passes that other guys wouldn't be able to, but I think his height also has a tendency to work against him trying to stay with guys as they make their cuts. I don't think he's particularly great in either area right now honestly but he shows flashes of it for sure.

 

Also, you're bound to get a mix of opinions when you ask 50 guys to rank players. The question about his ability defending the pass probably comes from a few guys and there were also questions about how he fills run gaps from some others.

Edited July 16, 2020 by DCOrange

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, DBilz2500 said:

Isn’t Edmunds much better covering the pass than he is in run defense? 

 

Yes. 

[Mr. WEO]

yeah well SCREW the national media!!!

 

 

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, DBilz2500 said:

Isn’t Edmunds much better covering the pass than he is in run defense? 

 

56 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes. 

Nothing is cut and dry in the NFL

 

When he makes the correct read he snuffs it out at an elite level.

 

Some plays he picks the wrong Gap still. It's still a work in progress

 

But his 20 run stuffs is undeniably a great stat

 

He just doesn't get challenged much in coverage because quarterbacks don't like taking the risk of throwing it over him

[GunnerBill]

53 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Nothing is cut and dry in the NFL

 

When he makes the correct read he snuffs it out at an elite level.

 

Some plays he picks the wrong Gap still. It's still a work in progress

 

But his 20 run stuffs is undeniably a great stat

 

He just doesn't get challenged much in coverage because quarterbacks don't like taking the risk of throwing it over him

 

He is much more consistent against the pass than against the run. His inconsistency against the run is maddening.  

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He is much more consistent against the pass than against the run. His inconsistency against the run is maddening.  

For sure it is

 

But it's actually hard to qualify how consistent you are against the pass, when you're actually not challenged too much

 

I think his awareness in zone is just slightly above average rn  but his size and speed makes up for it

 

also quarterbacks just don't want to throw over someone who is 6'6 so he's just not targeted

 

If you watched all 32 starting Mike linebacker  week in and week out, you would see tons are maddeningly inconsistent against the run. 

 

There are only five to eight who are absolute beasts against the run. The rest are inconsistent

 

And I definitely wouldn't put Tremaine in the bottom 16. Linebackers have drastically changed over the last decade, and most aren't strong run stuffers

 

Tremain's best asset is his size and speed

 

 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

For sure it is

 

But it's actually hard to qualify how consistent you are against the pass, when you're actually not challenged too much

 

I think his awareness in zone is just slightly above average rn  but his size and speed makes up for it

 

also quarterbacks just don't want to throw over someone who is 6'6 so he's just not targeted

 

If you watched all 32 starting Mike linebacker  week in and week out, you would see tons are maddeningly inconsistent against the run. 

 

There are only five to eight who are absolute beasts against the run. The rest are inconsistent

 

And I definitely wouldn't put Tremaine in the bottom 16. Linebackers have drastically changed over the last decade, and most aren't strong run stuffers

 

Tremain's best asset is his size and speed

 

 

 

I disagree with you on his awareness in zone. I think he has a really good understanding of his drops. Yes, unquestionably, his size and speed helps him. He has athletic gifts others don't. But I think he really plays his drops well. His gap recognition and lane discipline is below average in the NFL though for me. 

[Buffalo716]

20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree with you on his awareness in zone. I think he has a really good understanding of his drops. Yes, unquestionably, his size and speed helps him. He has athletic gifts others don't. But I think he really plays his drops well. His gap recognition and lane discipline is below average in the NFL though for me. 

His Gap recognition may have been below average for the NFL in 1990. But not in 2020. The game is completely different and so are Mike linebackers..

 

I think he has good drops, but I definitely don't think he's close to being finished. being a defensive back for 20 years I see a lot of nuanced things in coverages , and Tremaine still has a lot of room for growth

 

Tremaine feeds off a lot of Matt Milano in coverage. Who is undoubtedly better in man and zone

 

Using a basketball analogy, Tremaine is the rim protector, while Milano Is the pesky wing defender

 

Milano is doing tons of the dirty work in coverage funneling it to Tremaine in the middle who just has to stand ground and use his physical gifts

 

When the mental game approaches his physical game, he will be the best in the NFL. 

 

it just takes time and repetition and seeing everything the game can throw at you

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Buffalo716

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

His Gap recognition may have been below average for the NFL in 1990. But not in 2020. The game is completely different and so are Mike linebackers..

 

I think he has good drops, but I definitely don't think he's close to being finished. being a defensive back for 20 years I see a lot of nuanced things in coverages , and Tremaine still has a lot of room for growth

 

Tremaine feeds off a lot of Matt Milano in coverage. Who is undoubtedly better in man and zone

 

Using a basketball analogy, Tremaine is the rim protector, while Milano Is the pesky wing defender

 

Milano is doing tons of the dirty work in coverage funneling it to Tremaine in the middle who just has to stand ground and use his physical gifts

 

 

I disagree. I think he is below average in the 2020 NFL. I wasn't watching the NFL in 1990 so that definitely isn't my reference point. I don't watch every game back on all22 but I do watch all the Bills games back that way and in an average week I watch every snap of at least 10 NFL games. To me against his modern day peers he is below average in gap recognition and lane discipline. 

 

I like Edmunds. Thought he took a big step in 2019. But he is unquestionably better vs the pass than the run for my money.