Royale with Cheese Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 So cops aren't allowed to put any weight on a criminal now. For those who have ever wrestled/grappled before, if you can't put weight on someone, you'll never keep them down and they will get out. So either expect more punches thrown or tasers shot because you'll have no other option. This is unbelievable to me. https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-nypd-puts-out-new-training-video-on-how-to-subdue-suspects-20200703-khcztr23sfb37b2r33uhqljivi-story.html 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilzfancy Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 This is one reason why hundreds are retiring, NYC will once again be a real schiffhole to live in, could be why thousands are moving out 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: So cops aren't allowed to put any weight on a criminal now. For those who have ever wrestled/grappled before, if you can't put weight on someone, you'll never keep them down and they will get out. So either expect more punches thrown or tasers shot because you'll have no other option. This is unbelievable to me. https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-nypd-puts-out-new-training-video-on-how-to-subdue-suspects-20200703-khcztr23sfb37b2r33uhqljivi-story.html I don't know what the specifics of the state statutes are in New York regarding the use of choke holds by police; however, the video indicated that it was not prohibited, but was a Class-C Felony if it results in serious physical injury or death. I don't know if there are any exceptions/provisions in the statute if it occurs while the officer is in imminent fear of his life in a struggle. I am also not aware of the specifics of the Bills passed by the city. The video states the city laws primarily criminalize (1) the use of any restraint that compresses the windpipe or carotid artery and (2) placing a knee on the back/chest of a suspect. I have no problem with the limitations on restraints that compress the windpipe or carotid artery in general. Howevever, to make it a crime even if it occurs unintentionally and/or if no injuries occur, and to leave no room for it to be used if an officer is fighting for his or her life, will only serve to reduce an officer's ability to subdue suspects who resist arrest. Most departments already prohibit choke holds. However, policies and state laws in most states understand that it will occur on occasion and can be justified. That is the sujective nature of the use of force. I have a greater concern with eliminating the use of the knee on the back. In a struggle, it is virtually impossible for a single officer to gain control of, and handcuff a suspect (who is non-compliant) without the ability to apply pressure with a knee. And, again, to make it a crime even if it occurs unintentionally and/or if no injuries occur, and to leave no room for it to be used if an officer is fighting for his or her life, will only serve to reduce an officer's ability to subdue suspects who resist arrest. My greatest concern is that the city laws allow the officer to be sued for any of these acts regardless if they occur unintentionally and/or if they result in no injuries. If they remove the subjectivity from the use of force and define it only by precise, objective standards, AND allow them to be sued for unintentional acts, that result in no injuries, even if they are necessary for the safety of the officer but still violate the law, they will severely limit the ability and the desire of officers to do their jobs. Edited July 10, 2020 by billsfan1959 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 An already thankless job is getting even more difficult to do. The direction the country is going with law and order is disturbing. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilzfancy Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, LB3 said: An already thankless job is getting even more difficult to do. The direction the country is going with law and order is disturbing. One reason why gun sales are through the roof 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said: I don't know what the specifics of the state statutes are in New York regarding the use of choke holds by police; however, the video indicated that it was not prohibited, but was a Class-C Felony if it results in serious physical injury or death. I don't know if there are any exceptions/provisions in the statute if it occurs while the officer is in imminent fear of his life in a struggle. I am also not aware of the specifics of the Bills passed by the city. The video states the city laws primarily criminalize (1) the use of any restraint that compresses the windpipe or carotid artery and (2) placing a knee on the back/chest of a suspect. I have no problem with the limitations on restraints that compress the windpipe or carotid artery in general. Howevever, to make it a crime even if it occurs unintentionally and/or if no injuries occur, and to leave no room for it to be used if an officer is fighting for his or her life, will only serve to reduce an officer's ability to subdue suspects who resist arrest. Most departments already prohibit choke holds. However, policies and state laws in most states understand that it will occur on occasion and can be justified. That is the sujective nature of the use of force. I have a greater concern with eliminating the use of the knee on the back. In a struggle, it is virtually impossible for a single officer to gain control of, and handcuff a suspect (who is non-compliant) without the ability to apply pressure with a knee. And, again, to make it a crime even if it occurs unintentionally and/or if no injuries occur, and to leave no room for it to be used if an officer is fighting for his or her life, will only serve to reduce an officer's ability to subdue suspects who resist arrest. My greatest concern is that the city laws allow the officer to be sued for any of these acts regardless if they occur unintentionally and/or if they result in no injuries. If they remove the subjectivity from the use of force and define it only by precise, objective standards, AND allow them to be sued for unintentional acts, that result in no injuries, even if they are necessary for the safety of the officer but still violate the law, they will severely limit the ability and the desire of officers to do their jobs. They should be careful what they ask for. The unintended consequences of taking a hard line against choke holds or knee on back will invariably force LE to use other methods such as a taser, billy club and even possibly their firearm. It's obvious whose side the libs are coming down on and it sure isn't LE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 hours ago, LB3 said: An already thankless job is getting even more difficult to do. The direction the country is going with law and order is disturbing. This has nothing to do with this issue really, but my friend was a cop and his very first call ever in his career was to domestic dispute and he gets there, walks up to the house, and the Christmas tree comes flying through the window! Ya, not an easy job! He arrested the guy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: I don't know what the specifics of the state statutes are in New York regarding the use of choke holds by police; however, the video indicated that it was not prohibited, but was a Class-C Felony if it results in serious physical injury or death. I don't know if there are any exceptions/provisions in the statute if it occurs while the officer is in imminent fear of his life in a struggle. I am also not aware of the specifics of the Bills passed by the city. The video states the city laws primarily criminalize (1) the use of any restraint that compresses the windpipe or carotid artery and (2) placing a knee on the back/chest of a suspect. I have no problem with the limitations on restraints that compress the windpipe or carotid artery in general. Howevever, to make it a crime even if it occurs unintentionally and/or if no injuries occur, and to leave no room for it to be used if an officer is fighting for his or her life, will only serve to reduce an officer's ability to subdue suspects who resist arrest. Most departments already prohibit choke holds. However, policies and state laws in most states understand that it will occur on occasion and can be justified. That is the sujective nature of the use of force. I have a greater concern with eliminating the use of the knee on the back. In a struggle, it is virtually impossible for a single officer to gain control of, and handcuff a suspect (who is non-compliant) without the ability to apply pressure with a knee. And, again, to make it a crime even if it occurs unintentionally and/or if no injuries occur, and to leave no room for it to be used if an officer is fighting for his or her life, will only serve to reduce an officer's ability to subdue suspects who resist arrest. My greatest concern is that the city laws allow the officer to be sued for any of these acts regardless if they occur unintentionally and/or if they result in no injuries. If they remove the subjectivity from the use of force and define it only by precise, objective standards, AND allow them to be sued for unintentional acts, that result in no injuries, even if they are necessary for the safety of the officer but still violate the law, they will severely limit the ability and the desire of officers to do their jobs. That or they are setting the stage for more than 10 unarmed black suspects to be shot & killed annually by police. Because, if the officer fears for his/her life and they can't dare put a knee on the suspect's back, would expect the gun will come out of its holster pretty quickly. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 26 minutes ago, Taro T said: That or they are setting the stage for more than 10 unarmed black suspects to be shot & killed annually by police. Because, if the officer fears for his/her life and they can't dare put a knee on the suspect's back, would expect the gun will come out of its holster pretty quickly. Would you actually be surprised of they ban guns from cops if this happens? Policemen would be basically mall security guards at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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