Redskins facing severe pressure to change name.

[Rob's House]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is a bizarre poll to use to make your point. Over half of black people think their race has specifically hindered them and that is the most positive result you can pull from that link. 84% of black people think racial discrimination is a major obstacle and 87% think black people are treated worse by the criminal justice system. Whatever point you're trying to make that isn't the poll to use.

 

It shows only 52% believe they have personally been hindered in their ability to get ahead, even a little bit, by racism. The rest shows the gap between reality and perception. It also shows that black folks have a variety of opinions and are not a monolithic group.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is a bizarre poll to use to make your point. Over half of black people think their race has specifically hindered them and that is the most positive result you can pull from that link. 84% of black people think racial discrimination is a major obstacle and 87% think black people are treated worse by the criminal justice system. Whatever point you're trying to make that isn't the poll to use.

 

Indeed.  From the link @Rob's House, 84% think racial discrimination hurts their ability to get ahead, 76% say they have less access to high-paying jobs, 72% say less access to good schools.  Huh.

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, Rob's House said:

It shows only 52% believe they have personally been hindered in their ability to get ahead, even a little bit, by racism.

 

"Only" half of black feel their race has literally hurt their ability to get ahead. You're way underselling the gravity of that statistic. You're also ignoring the lost positive - 45% of white people think their race has specifically helped them get ahead. Whereas even to your point 29% of black people think it has neither helped nor hurt them. Even taking that question at face value that is still a net negative for black people. I would also argue the more general question about racial discrimination is more telling. If someone asked me if American public schools in general put people at a disadvantage compared to private schools I would say yes. If someone asked me if my public school put me at a disadvantage I'm too prideful to answer yes to that question. And I've found decent enough success in life that I can say no to that question. That doesn't mean my initial answer is wrong or that private school wouldn't have still put me at an even greater advantage, and I'm smart enough to know that my subjective interpretation of my experience isn't necessarily true. Kind of a clunky example but you see what I mean?

[Warcodered]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Indeed.  From the link @Rob's House, 84% think racial discrimination hurts their ability to get ahead, 76% say they have less access to high-paying jobs, 72% say less access to good schools.  Huh.

 

[Rob's House]

21 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

"Only" half of black feel their race has literally hurt their ability to get ahead. You're way underselling the gravity of that statistic. You're also ignoring the lost positive - 45% of white people think their race has specifically helped them get ahead. Whereas even to your point 29% of black people think it has neither helped nor hurt them. Even taking that question at face value that is still a net negative for black people. I would also argue the more general question about racial discrimination is more telling. If someone asked me if American public schools in general put people at a disadvantage compared to private schools I would say yes. If someone asked me if my public school put me at a disadvantage I'm too prideful to answer yes to that question. And I've found decent enough success in life that I can say no to that question. That doesn't mean my initial answer is wrong or that private school wouldn't have still put me at an even greater advantage, and I'm smart enough to know that my subjective interpretation of my experience isn't necessarily true. Kind of a clunky example but you see what I mean?

 

The main point of that example goes back to a previous conversation that HBF claimed I hadn't sourced. The point being refuted is that we must shut up and listen to the black voice which claims overt oppression. The point I was making is that there isn't a single black opinion, but rather a wide variety of black opinions, many of which do not support the media narrative. 

 

The other noteworthy portion is that nearly half of black people in 2019 did not believe that race was a hindrance to them getting ahead. To listen to the news and some conversations here you'd think it was unanimous.

32 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Indeed.  From the link @Rob's House, 84% think racial discrimination hurts their ability to get ahead, 76% say they have less access to high-paying jobs, 72% say less access to good schools.  Huh.

 

Look at the difference between their perception and their real life experience.

[Rocky Landing]

Honestly, the back and forth on this topic is astonishing. Especially cringeworthy are the reliance on some clearly bogus polls, and blatantly irrelevant straw man arguments about other “offensive” team names.

 

The National Congress of American Indians, founded in 1944, and headquartered in Washington DC, is the oldest, largest, and most representative American Indian and Alaska Native organization there is. They represent 573 member tribes. They are the same organization that produced the commercial advocating for the Redskins name change at the Super Bowl several years ago. Below is a link to their resolution regarding the Redskins name. It is the same position they have held for decades.

 

http://www.ncai.org/resources/resolutions/opposing-the-washington-nfl-team-s-return-to-the-district-of-columbia-until-the-franchise-changes-its-offensive-name

 

If anyone truly believes they have a more cogent, or authoritative argument than the National Congress of American Indians, they are a fool.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

The three minority owners of the Washington Redskins are seeking to sell their shares in the team because they are "not happy being a partner" with owner Daniel Snyder, The Washington Post has reported, citing sources familiar with the deliberations.
 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29415651/redskins-trio-minority-owners-launching-search-sell-stakes
 

sorry if duplicated 

 

 

[Warcodered]

15 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

 

The main point of that example goes back to a previous conversation that HBF claimed I hadn't sourced. The point being refuted is that we must shut up and listen to the black voice which claims overt oppression. The point I was making is that there isn't a single black opinion, but rather a wide variety of black opinions, many of which do not support the media narrative. 

 

The other noteworthy portion is that nearly half of black people in 2019 did not believe that race was a hindrance to them getting ahead. To listen to the news and some conversations here you'd think it was unanimous.

 

Look at the difference between their perception and their real life experience.

I mean the two questions aren't really that well connected the one that got around 50% asks weather being black has hurt their ability to get ahead and that's honestly a tougher question to answer yes to than simply have you been discriminated against. But let's not forget that half said it did and that is incredibly high.

[eball]

5 hours ago, Rob's House said:

Back in the 50s and 60s

 

That's your standard of reasonableness?  Really?

 

Oy vey.

[ExiledInIllinois]

3 hours ago, nucci said:

is it offensive to the Irish? I would think they like the name...now if you said drunken...

How about the Drunken Micks. Would  they be offended by that?

[K-9]

Whether or not racism exists is not within the sole purview of those to which it’s directed to determine. 

[Rob's House]

22 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I mean the two questions aren't really that well connected the one that got around 50% asks weather being black has hurt their ability to get ahead and that's honestly a tougher question to answer yes to than simply have you been discriminated against. But let's not forget that half said it did and that is incredibly high.

 

It is high. Although it's notable that the the 52% includes any perceived discrimination, even if slight.

 

It's also noteworthy that this is perception. How many of these people were actually discriminated against, and how many attributed racism to a situation where it did not apply? I have no idea. I have firsthand knowledge of several instances of people claiming racism where none exists. It's anecdotal, so I can't quantify it, but it is a relevant consideration.

 

It's also worth noting that the door swings both ways. I know of a handful of examples where I know for a fact that a person was discriminated against for being white wrt employment and contracts. That too is anecdotal, but it's a factor to consider. It's well established that blacks get favorable treatment wrt college admissions.

 

This doesn't necessarily mean that blacks don't have it worse overall - I can't really say one way or the other - but it does cast a lot of doubt on the systemic oppression narrative.

 

If we consider only the facts that support our beliefs and discount all that are inconsistent with them, we're not pursuing truth, we're rationalizing.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Rob's House

[Warcodered]

12 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

If we consider only the facts that support our beliefs and discount all that are inconsistent with them, we're not pursuing truth, we're rationalizing.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Warcodered

[BuffaloRebound]

There’s about 200 mediocre white dudes like myself who make 6 figures based mostly on the fact that we look like our bosses or customers for every black person given preferential treatment by college admissions.  

[aceman_16]

29 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

If we consider only the facts that support our beliefs and discount all that are inconsistent with them, we're not pursuing truth, we're rationalizing.

I dont want to make this personal but lolololololloolloollolll.....umm go back and read your posts , especially how you staked your major argument on the Washington Post's unscientific poll.

[Rob's House]

30 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

The difference is I've considered everything you've offered, which isn't much, and come to a measured conclusion that is consistent with all the facts.

 

Rather than reply with facts and counterpoints you have conclusions and memes. You're not open to the possibility that you could be wrong about any of this.

30 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

The difference is I've considered everything you've offered, which isn't much, and come to a measured conclusion that is consistent with all the facts.

 

Rather than reply with facts and counterpoints you have conclusions and memes. You're not open to the possibility that you could be wrong about any of this.

[Rob's House]

12 minutes ago, aceman_16 said:

I dont want to make this personal but lolololololloolloollolll.....umm go back and read your posts , especially how you staked your major argument on the Washington Post's unscientific poll.

 

Still haven't heard you offer anything of substance to refute that theory. 

 

I already said I'd be open to hearing other evidence. You're staking your entire argument on a study for which I already pointed out many fatal flaws with specificity.

 

It's possible you could be right, but you haven't made a very strong case.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Rob's House said:

The point I was making is that there isn't a single black opinion, but rather a wide variety of black opinions, many of which do not support the media narrative. 

 

No one has argued against this. But over 80% of black people do feel that there is discrimination against black people and that the justice system treats them differently. There's a difference between being hindered and being discriminated against. You're conflating the two but they're not exactly the same. A black man who feels like his rights are violated during a traffic stop isn't hindered at succeeding in life.

 

Anyways I'm just going off of the poll you provided. The point you're trying to make isn't evidenced in that poll.

[Rob's House]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

No one has argued against this. But over 80% of black people do feel that there is discrimination against black people and that the justice system treats them differently. There's a difference between being hindered and being discriminated against. You're conflating the two but they're not exactly the same. A black man who feels like his rights are violated during a traffic stop isn't hindered at succeeding in life.

 

Anyways I'm just going off of the poll you provided. The point you're trying to make isn't evidenced in that poll.

 

I appreciate the clarification.

[aceman_16]

19 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

 

Still haven't heard you offer anything of substance to refute that theory. 

 

I already said I'd be open to hearing other evidence. You're staking your entire argument on a study for which I already pointed out many fatal flaws with specificity.

 

It's possible you could be right, but you haven't made a very strong case.

You obviously don't understand research.  EVERY good research document is ethically bound to tell the reader the limitations and where someone can pick up/improve upon it. It is the core of proper and well-done research. Besides....it is not my job to convince you of something you are unwilling to see.

 

As I said to someone yesterday...arguing with you is like playing chess with a pigeon.  The bird just craps on the board and struts around thinking it is winning. Keep pooping on arguments and feel like your winning. You viewpoints are coming across well /sarcasm.