NFL may have fans sign a waiver to attend games

[nucci]

27 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

 

Do you consider the protests a public safety hazard in what you described above.  If not I would be interested in hearing your reasons why.

You didn't ask me but I believe any large gatherings with people not wearing masks is a public safety hazard.

[123719bwiqrb]

On 7/4/2020 at 11:35 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

If the football game turns into a super-spreader event and my Granny who signed no waiver gets infected and dies as a result of being cared for by a friend of a friend who was there, can I sue?  If she can't get the best medical care because the hospitals are overwhelmed and contact tracing indicates the game was a major spreading event?  ?‍♀️

 

 

When screened, contact tracers were not allowed to ask if the exposed individual attended a protest/riot in June.  Implement the same rules for an NFL game and your fear goes away.

[Mango]

On 7/4/2020 at 11:49 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Here's the problem I have with this "let people live their lives should they choose to do so" line of thought. 

 

It has been shown, over and over again, that it very difficult to protect vulnerable groups from transmission of a widely circulating epidemic disease.  Nonetheless, their risk can be minimized - but not by simply saying "stay home if you're part of that group" or even giving such groups a living allowance.  They need groceries, they need medical care, they need personal care, they need other services. 

That means that effective measures to control and contain disease among those PROVIDING those services need to be taken.

Are we taking such measures to an appropriate degree?  No.  No, we are not, not even for the most obviously and markedly vulnerable groups.  Congregate living facilities (nursing home, long term care home, assisted living home) employees, ombudsmen and watchdog groups will tell you that in many parts of the country employees of such facilities still are not given adequate PPE, regular testing, paid time off to quarantine pending test results, paid sick time to encourage them to stay home while ill etc etc.  Instead, such facilities are being GIVEN liability protection, without any mandate to implement effective measures to protect their patients.

 

And that's not even getting to the people who are living in private apartments and homes, but who still need groceries.

 

We are not islands.  What we do affects our families, friends, and neighbors,  It's Not Just You.

 

 

 

Just put it this way, if people stopped making up some load of crap about "PeRsOnAl FrEeDoMs" and how a mask somehow impairs that, there is a good chance that they could go to a football game in September with minimal risk of killing people. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Mango
fat fingers- grammar

[Mango]

7 minutes ago, 123719bwiqrb said:

 

When screened, contact tracers were not allowed to ask if the exposed individual attended a protest/riot in June.  Implement the same rules for an NFL game and your fear goes away.

 

That was only in NYC, and is so incredibly irrelevant. You are trying to make a point that has no basis in any sort of reality. 1 week before protests began in NYC there were 2000 cases in the entire state. A week later we were down to about 1000, and now we are in 6-800 area. It is almost as if the people who marched for George Floyd also believe in science and protecting their fellow man. 

[123719bwiqrb]

15 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

That was only in NYC, and is so incredibly irrelevant. You are trying to make a point that has no basis in any sort of reality. 1 week before protests began in NYC there were 2000 cases in the entire state. A week later we were down to about 1000, and now we are in 6-800 area. It is almost as if the people who marched for George Floyd also believe in science and protecting their fellow man. 

 

Easy there, Mongo.  Irrelevant to you, but I am just pointing out the illogical thinking.  Contact tracers have been polluted by politics as well - acknowledge that fact, and we can have a coherent conversation.

Edited July 6, 2020 by 123719bwiqrb

[Mango]

3 minutes ago, 123719bwiqrb said:

 

Easy there, Mongo.  Irrelevant to you, but I am just pointing out the illogical thinking.  Contact tracers have been polluted by politics as well - acknowledge that fact, and we can have a coherent conversation.

 

Literally one city, in a state that is on a steady decline, is your big "contact tracers are infected by politics". 

 

Cool, DeBlasio sucks, always has. He was wrong here. 

Reads a lot like you are implying protests are leading to spike, which is silly. But oddly enough most states spiking are generally not a bastion for liberal protest on a large scale. You know Arizona, still locking kids in cages, they love to protest to help protect POC.  New York is continuing to trend down. Minnesota has been trending down. Washington State is trending down. California has remained largely stagnant, but high as the largest state in the country. Florida and Texas will probably pass California this week. All these places that are making headlines for the size of their protests have seen a continued and significant downward trend in infection rate. 

 

 

[123719bwiqrb]

17 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Literally one city, in a state that is on a steady decline, is your big "contact tracers are infected by politics". 

 

Cool, DeBlasio sucks, always has. He was wrong here. 

Reads a lot like you are implying protests are leading to spike, which is silly. But oddly enough most states spiking are generally not a bastion for liberal protest on a large scale. You know Arizona, still locking kids in cages, they love to protest to help protect POC.  New York is continuing to trend down. Minnesota has been trending down. Washington State is trending down. California has remained largely stagnant, but high as the largest state in the country. Florida and Texas will probably pass California this week. All these places that are making headlines for the size of their protests have seen a continued and significant downward trend in infection rate. 

 

 

 

I believe if we can protest (which looked to get a little hectic sometimes) and the hospitals have not gotten overloaded, then we can go to football games.

[Mango]

55 minutes ago, 123719bwiqrb said:

 

I believe if we can protest (which looked to get a little hectic sometimes) and the hospitals have not gotten overloaded, then we can go to football games.

 

This is actually less from you, and more for everybody trying to make some wild, "BuT tHe PrOtEsToRs" and "MuH FrEeDoMs" claim

 

1. Protests were outdoors

2. 99% of people there are wearing masks

 

So fine, abide by CDC guidelines. Everybody HAS to wear a mask or they are booted and/or fined. Also no attendance at indoor stadiums. Houston, Dallas, New Orleans, Atlanta, Minnesota, Detroit, Arizona, Indy, Vegas, LA Rams, LA Chargers. 

 

Playing by the same rules, here are the other stadiums that cannot host any games because their hospitals are pushing too close to capacity. 

 

Miami- Hospitals are 75% +

Carolina- Hospitals are at 75% +

Tampa- 4 hospitals in the county are at 100% capacity

Seattle- Ran out of beds 2 weeks ago. 

San Fran- Taking patients for neighboring counties who are at capacity. Cannot afford to lose beds. 

Oakland- See SF

 

So here we are. Only football that is left is basically from the coalition of states with everybody's least favorite "DiCtAtOr" Andrew Cuomo. All the places where there was some big government conspiracy. But turns out, had everybody across the country just effing listed, instead of whined like entitled little babies, we could actually be talking about going to games in some capacity. 

 

Here are the home teams of games that we can go to: Browns, Bengals, Steelers, Bills, Pats, Jets, Giants, Ravens, Skins, Eagles, Chiefs, Broncos, Bears. 

 

...but edit that down, because I am not sure they would want a bunch of fans in Kansas City, from Tampa Bay. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Mango

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

Just put it this way, if people stopping making up some load of crap about "PeRsOnAl FrEeDoMs" and how a mask somehow impairs that, there is a good chance that they could go to a football game in September with minimal risk of killing people. 

 

Kyle Brandt agrees with you:

 

 

 

"If you love football, wear a damn mask because we all want it and if you don't wear a mask, you're the reason we're not going to get it"

[Hapless Bills Fan]

32 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

This is actually less from you, and more for everybody trying to make some wild, "BuT tHe PrOtEsToRs" and "MuH FrEeDoMs" claim

 

1. Protests were outdoors

2. 99% of people there are wearing masks

 

So fine, abide by CDC guidelines. Everybody HAS to wear a mask or they are booted and/or fined. Also no attendance at indoor stadiums. Houston, Dallas, New Orleans, Atlanta, Minnesota, Detroit, Arizona, Indy, Vegas, LA Rams, LA Chargers. 

 

Playing by the same rules, here are the other stadiums that cannot host any games because their hospitals are pushing too close to capacity. 

 

Miami- Hospitals are 75% +

Carolina- Hospitals are at 75% +

Tampa- 4 hospitals in the county are at 100% capacity

Seattle- Ran out of beds 2 weeks ago. 

San Fran- Taking patients for neighboring counties who are at capacity. Cannot afford to lose beds. 

Oakland- See SF

 

So here we are. Only football that is left is basically from the coalition of states with everybody's least favorite "DiCtAtOr" Andrew Cuomo. All the places where there was some big government conspiracy. But turns out, had everybody across the country just effing listed, instead of whined like entitled little babies, we could actually be talking about going to games in some capacity. 

 

Here are the home teams of games that we can go to: Browns, Bengals, Steelers, Bills, Pats, Jets, Giants, Ravens, Skins, Eagles, Chiefs, Broncos, Bears. 

 

Mango - maybe a nit, but what's the source of your info about Seattle running out of beds 2 weeks ago?

 

The reason I ask is because this from Washington State's covid-19 dashboard

https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/NovelCoronavirusOutbreak2020COVID19/DataDashboard

Epidemiologic curves, hospitalizations, King County (county where Seattle is)

Their case count is mounting up, but they don't appear to be as full as they were back in April
If one clicks on "Testing" they are one of the states where it may be possible their increased case count is associated with increased testing, although the % positive cases does appear to be inching up

 

 

Anyway, accurate information about hospital capacity is kind of hard to find, so would appreciate your source
My understanding is that the surge in cases in Washington is being driven by Eastern Washington (the Spokane area), but that could be incorrect

(and of course the Frat Row Outbreak at U of Washington contributes)

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Gordio said:

Do you consider the protests a public safety hazard in what you described above.  If not I would be interested in hearing your reasons why.

 

Depends entirely upon the behavior of the protestors/law enforcement

 

I participated in a Black Lives Matter march near my home.  I did not see a single adult not wearing a mask.  Most participants were distancing.  A few were wearing masks improperly, only over their mouth.

 

The only people I saw not wearing masks were the police (truth).

I did not ask them why, just bid them a polite "good day" and "thank you"

 

I consider any gathering of people in close proximity a public safety hazard, and any gathering where wearing masks aren't worn double

 

 

 

 

[Mango]

22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Mango - maybe a nit, but what's the source of your info about Seattle running out of beds 2 weeks ago?

 

The reason I ask is because this from Washington State's covid-19 dashboard

https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/NovelCoronavirusOutbreak2020COVID19/DataDashboard

Epidemiologic curves, hospitalizations, King County (county where Seattle is)

Their case count is mounting up, but they don't appear to be as full as they were back in April
If one clicks on "Testing" they are one of the states where it may be possible their increased case count is associated with increased testing, although the % positive cases does appear to be inching up

 

 

Anyway, accurate information about hospital capacity is kind of hard to find, so would appreciate your source

 

Sorry, I misread the article from CBS News. It is Yakima County, which is SE of Kings County. They are moving patients from Yakima to Kings County. 

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/washington-state-require-face-mask-hospital-beds-coronavirus/

 

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Mango

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, Mango said:

Sorry, I misread the article from CBS News. It is Yakima County, which is SE of Kings County. They are moving patients from Yakima to Kings County.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/washington-state-require-face-mask-hospital-beds-coronavirus/

 

That matches with the info I can find

Eastern Washington is highly agricultural, I believe it has several meat packing plants, and it has a good population of rabid anti-maskers.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/coronavirus-daily-news-updates-july-4-what-to-know-today-about-covid-19-in-the-seattle-area-washington-state-and-the-world/

"The virus is surging the fastest in eastern Washington, where cases per capita in the Tri-Cities area are more than double the rate in urban King County. Gov. Jay Inslee visited the Tri-Cities, Yakima, and Spokane in the past two weeks to urge greater precautions. Inslee was jeered this week in Pasco, where someone yelled, “You’re taking away our freedoms.”

Outside of Spokane, that tri-county region (Yakima, Benton, and Franklin) are quite rural and hospital capacity is limited.

 

I'm afraid we're going to see that dynamic playing out across the country in the next few months - rural counties where people think covid-19 is a giant hoax seeing surging cases that overflow their very limited hospital capacity, especially if the virus gets into the local care homes.

[RiotAct]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

 

Just put it this way, if people stopping making up some load of crap about "PeRsOnAl FrEeDoMs" and how a mask somehow impairs that, there is a good chance that they could go to a football game in September with minimal risk of killing people. 

muh rights, amirite?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Mango said:

 

Literally one city, in a state that is on a steady decline, is your big "contact tracers are infected by politics". 

 

Cool, DeBlasio sucks, always has. He was wrong here. 

Reads a lot like you are implying protests are leading to spike, which is silly. But oddly enough most states spiking are generally not a bastion for liberal protest on a large scale. You know Arizona, still locking kids in cages, they love to protest to help protect POC.  New York is continuing to trend down. Minnesota has been trending down. Washington State is trending down. California has remained largely stagnant, but high as the largest state in the country. Florida and Texas will probably pass California this week. All these places that are making headlines for the size of their protests have seen a continued and significant downward trend in infection rate.

 

Actually Washington State trending up and it's not good...but the upward trend is in the Eastern counties, which are by and large pretty conservative and weren't marked by significant protests.  Oh, and Fraternity Row in Seattle is a hot spot - I suppose those guys could have been at some protests?  ?‍♀️

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases-50-states/washington

California is also trending up rapidly

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases-50-states/california

but the largest numbers of new cases are in San Bernardino County, Stanislaus County, San Diego, Orange, San Joaquin, and Riverside which I don't think fits the pattern of "most protests"  https://public.tableau.com/views/COVID-19CasesDashboard_15931020425010/Cases?:embed=y&:showVizHome=no

choose "new cases" in the dropdown, here if you want to see where those are

Overall it seems to be a valid point that the places with the most protests don't align with the places with the most rapid current rise in covid-19 cases - Minnesota, for example, is holding steady - but hard to tell.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mango]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Actually Washington State trending up and it's not good...but the upward trend is in the Eastern counties, which are by and large pretty conservative and weren't marked by significant protests.  Oh, and Fraternity Row in Seattle is a hot spot - I suppose those guys could have been at some protests?  ?‍♀️

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases-50-states/washington

California is also trending up rapidly

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases-50-states/california

but the largest numbers of new cases are in San Bernardino County, Stanislaus County, San Diego, Orange, San Joaquin, and Riverside which I don't think fits the pattern of "most protests"  https://public.tableau.com/views/COVID-19CasesDashboard_15931020425010/Cases?:embed=y&:showVizHome=no

choose "new cases" in the dropdown, here if you want to see where those are

Overall it seems to be a valid point that the places with the most protests don't align with the places with the most rapid current rise in covid-19 cases, but hard to tell.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus, my new puppy kept me up ALL night last night in the crate, after a weekend of no crate hanging at the lake. Normally I am pretty good with this stuff. I appreciate you pointing out the my WA debacle using old data. 

 

My CA reference was more in comparison to the size of the population and total population sprawl across the state (mostly along the coast).  They are definitely trending up, but not at the rate of say Texas or Florida in total cases and they only have 50-60% of the total population. I totally agree with you here, I was just painting with a broad brush. California is an interesting case study for all sorts of issues. As much as everybody wants to think that CA is all hippy-dippy and surfer dudes, there are large communities that are not. CA should see another large pop early this week. No reporting from San Diego or LA this weekend with the 4th.