Bill Barnwell on Josh Allen

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, eball said:

 

Yeah, I don't see it.  Tyrod never threw to anyone who wasn't clearly open; it was maddening to watch.  I don't think their running styles are similar.  Remember everyone literally begging Tyrod to use the middle of the field?  Josh was awesome there.  They are much, much different players in my opinion -- without looking at a single stat.

You don’t think that they are similar runners? They always make the first man miss in the backfield and get as many yards as they possibly could. Both guys have great instincts as runners. That’s why they are high YPC guys. They also finish in the red zone. With the exception of the Josh Allen sneaks I think that they’re virtually identical as runners. 

 

Josh uses the middle of the field more for sure compared to Tyrod at the beginning of his Bills career. He used it a lot more at the end than at the beginning. Josh is really good in the intermediate. Tyrod was one of the best deep ball throwers in the league at the time. That’s where they differ. 

[eball]

15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You don’t think that they are similar runners? They always make the first man miss in the backfield and get as many yards as they possibly could. Both guys have great instincts as runners. That’s why they are high YPC guys. They also finish in the red zone. With the exception of the Josh Allen sneaks I think that they’re virtually identical as runners. 

 

Josh uses the middle of the field more for sure compared to Tyrod at the beginning of his Bills career. He used it a lot more at the end than at the beginning. Josh is really good in the intermediate. Tyrod was one of the best deep ball throwers in the league at the time. That’s where they differ. 

 

Well, I know two people can see things differently, and that's cool.  Tyrod is a "flashier" runner but I think Josh gets more out of his runs.  Josh already has 17 rushing TDs in 27 starts...Tyrod has 16 in 46 starts!  And you can't just discount the sneaks -- they are a huge part of keeping the chains moving.  Tyrod clearly was a better deep thrower but Josh blows him away in the intermediate range.

[MJS]

Tyrod never took chances even when the team needed him to. Allen takes chances sometimes when the team DOESN'T need him to.

 

Polar opposite QB's, if you ask me. Josh is a guy you need to rein in. Taylor is a guy you need to prod with a hot poker.

8 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Well, I know two people can see things differently, and that's cool.  Tyrod is a "flashier" runner but I think Josh gets more out of his runs.  Josh already has 17 rushing TDs in 27 starts...Tyrod has 16 in 46 starts!  And you can't just discount the sneaks -- they are a huge part of keeping the chains moving.  Tyrod clearly was a better deep thrower but Josh blows him away in the intermediate range.

Tyrod had a season of good deep ball throwing, but then he was mediocre. It had been the highlight of his passing ability but it fizzled over time until he was basically completely ineffective as a passer.

[Punching Bag]

43 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Yeah, I don't see it.  Tyrod never threw to anyone who wasn't clearly open; it was maddening to watch.  I don't think their running styles are similar.  Remember everyone literally begging Tyrod to use the middle of the field?  Josh was awesome there.  They are much, much different players in my opinion -- without looking at a single stat.

 

That is incorrect.  Year one he did and evidently Rex and company during 2nd season emphasized not taking chances and he complied.

[eball]

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

That is incorrect.  Year one he did and evidently Rex and company during 2nd season emphasized not taking chances and he complied.

 

Yeah, we'll agree to disagree on that.  His INT % went from 1.6 to 1.4 his first two seasons in Buffalo.  He always avoided danger.

[oldmanfan]

Fairly decent article I think.  Stats between him and TT are similar but Bills fans know the playing styles are completely different.  I think he states the obvious that Josh needs to continue his improvement but details specifics on that.  So overall pretty good.

 

One comment on the DiMarco pass though.  Allen gets ragged on continually for that throw, but the bottom line is DiMarco had it in his hands.  He holds on we win.  The throw may not have been the first choice, but the throw was there.

Edited July 1, 2020 by oldmanfan

[QCity]

Right now, they're both running QB's.

[eball]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Remember Mark Sanchez led the NFL in 4th quarter comebacks?

 

 

 

So are you someone else who believes 4th quarter comebacks aren't important?

[John from Riverside]

I will keep posting it until these dumb articles stop

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You don’t think that they are similar runners? They always make the first man miss in the backfield and get as many yards as they possibly could. Both guys have great instincts as runners. That’s why they are high YPC guys. They also finish in the red zone. With the exception of the Josh Allen sneaks I think that they’re virtually identical as runners. 

 

Josh uses the middle of the field more for sure compared to Tyrod at the beginning of his Bills career. He used it a lot more at the end than at the beginning. Josh is really good in the intermediate. Tyrod was one of the best deep ball throwers in the league at the time. That’s where they differ. 

good running QBs are good running QBs imo.  That’s a trait that both of them have.  That makes them similar as they are both excellent running the ball.  Superior athletes.  That’s about the extent of their similarities as QBs imo.  Josh is clearly superior in the QB sneak. He brings another level to his ball carrying ability.  He hurdles LBs and always gets his QBs sneak.  He’s better running the ball. He’s superior throwing the ball minus joshs inability to complete the deep ball last year.  Josh always goes for the first down in 3rd down.  I always remember Tyrod taking the safe route and leaving me thinking “we need a new QB”.

 

in summary, the only comparison I see between the two are that they are both mobile.  

[Billl]

1 hour ago, eball said:

Still waiting for someone to come here and honestly say that Josh Allen and Tyrod Taylor play the same way.  Not that their stats were similar, or that their W-L records were similar, but that you think of them as similar QBs based upon what you are watching.

 

To date, they are both only starting in the league because of their running ability.  Neither of them throw the ball well enough to get by as pure passing QBs.  Taylor is much more of a game manager who checks down and protects the ball.  Sometimes that works out for him.  Sometimes it doesn’t.  Allen is much more of a wild card who tends to Chuck the ball deep when things break down and has a tendency to be reckless with the ball.  Sometimes that works out for him.  Sometimes it doesn’t.

 

Both rely heavily on their running ability to make up for their shortcomings as pocket passers.

Both struggle with going through their progressions. (Taylor does it too quickly, Josh does it too slowly)

Both have issues recognizing risk/reward situations.  (Taylor errs on the side of caution, Josh errs on the side of risk)

 

Whether this makes them similar as QBs is a question of semantics.

[Augie]

4 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

I'm not judging Allen until we see him with the amazing WR talent we have now with Diggs WR1. All of these stats are not relevant until they are all playing together.

 

He’s got better weapons now, and another year of experience. He doesn’t have to be “Mahomes Great” and a league MVP,  just keep making progress. Keep getting better, which I fully expect, and I’ll be pleased. He’s a natural leader, and you can’t teach that. 

[Mr. WEO]

Man...Beane  should take those 2 first rounds picks right now!!

[costrovs]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Can he though? He can throw far, sure, but his deep ball accuracy is almost fitzpatrick-esque

 

I'll agree that his deep throws were horrible last season. He couldn't connect worth crap. But, he's not over throwing his receivers by a mile like some QB's. Most of his overthrows were quite literally within 1-2 feet of his mark, some within inches but the receivers just couldn't bring them in.

[eball]

14 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I don't think it means a whole lot in predicting consistent success in the league. 

 

You would certainly agree that between two QBs, having the experience and history of leading your team back in the 4th quarter is preferable, right?

[Milanos Milano]

Josh Allen is way better than TT and it’s not even close. 

 

Allen reminds me of Randall Cunningham. They both have the same skill set. 

[GaryPinC]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Well considering the Bills scored more points under Taylor than Allen, they might not need him.  It’s kinda why I hate the 4th quarter comeback stat.  With better qb play and offense, we won’t have needed comebacks last year.  Really good defense and a garbage schedule.  Those games should have been over by the 3rd quarter.

 

Looking at both QBs most recent season with Buffalo (TT 2017 JA 2019) at PFR, it appears Allen bests Taylor in passing TDs 20-14.  Allen also bests Taylor in rushing TDs 9-4.  I would argue if the Bills scored more points under Taylor, it wasn't because of Taylor.

 

Also, I felt like TT's long ball tanked in 2017 compared to 2015.  

 

Last but not least, defenses had really begun to figure TT out.  Next year in Cleveland, I watched all 3 TT games and though not the best conditions, TT was largely ineffective and shut down against the defenses.  And same old checkdowns and late game scoring tanks.  My good buddy (huge Browns fan) couldn't understand why we let TT go until he witnessed it himself and the same frustration set in.

His concussion against the Jets paved the way for Mayfield but he wouldn't have lasted as starter anyways.   Though you never know with coach Huge Jackass.  He was tough to figure at times.

[Maine-iac]

1 hour ago, GaryPinC said:

 

Looking at both QBs most recent season with Buffalo (TT 2017 JA 2019) at PFR, it appears Allen bests Taylor in passing TDs 20-14.  Allen also bests Taylor in rushing TDs 9-4.  I would argue if the Bills scored more points under Taylor, it wasn't because of Taylor.

 

Also, I felt like TT's long ball tanked in 2017 compared to 2015.  

 

Last but not least, defenses had really begun to figure TT out.  Next year in Cleveland, I watched all 3 TT games and though not the best conditions, TT was largely ineffective and shut down against the defenses.  And same old checkdowns and late game scoring tanks.  My good buddy (huge Browns fan) couldn't understand why we let TT go until he witnessed it himself and the same frustration set in.

His concussion against the Jets paved the way for Mayfield but he wouldn't have lasted as starter anyways.   Though you never know with coach Huge Jackass.  He was tough to figure at times.

Did TT's long ball tank or did Watkins, Woods, Hogan, and Goodwin all leave and get replaced Zay "Brick Hands" Jones and Kelvin "One Good Leg" Benjamin.  Dennison also might have been the worst OC to come to Buffalo in the last decade and that's saying something.  The current coaching staff never had any plans of TT being in Buffalo as anything more than a transition QB.  We were going to get a "franchise" QB come hell or high water.  Allen looks pretty good.   What he throws away with mistakes and bonehead plays (hopefully correctable) he makes up for with that "it" factor he seems to bring at crunch time in the 4th quarter.

 

ps  Cleveland's kicker doesn't suck and Taylor is 2 and 0 with wins over the Steelers and Saints going into the Jets game where Mayfield came in and then (giving him the Jets win) lost 5 of the next 7.  Cleveland is just a bad place to be a QB.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Maine-iac

[billieve420]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

Tyrod never took chances even when the team needed him to. Allen takes chances sometimes when the team DOESN'T need him to.

 

Polar opposite QB's, if you ask me. Josh is a guy you need to rein in. Taylor is a guy you need to prod with a hot poker.

Tyrod had a season of good deep ball throwing, but then he was mediocre. It had been the highlight of his passing ability but it fizzled over time until he was basically completely ineffective as a passer.

 

Some of it was personnel too. Look at at the WRs on that 2015 team and then compare it with the players the final year Taylor was starting. We swapped out smaller fast WRs who could gain separation for bigger slower possession receivers. Taylor is not an anticipation thrower and once you took away his calling card the deep ball. You were left with a QB who couldn’t make throws in tight windows consistently.

Edited July 1, 2020 by billieve420

[GaryPinC]

3 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

Did TT's long ball tank or did Watkins, Woods, Hogan, and Goodwin all leave and get replaced Zay "Brick Hands" Jones and Kelvin "One Good Leg" Benjamin.  Dennison also might have been the worst OC to come to Buffalo in the last decade and that's saying something.  The current coaching staff never had any plans of TT being in Buffalo as anything more than a transition QB.  We were going to get a "franchise" QB come hell or high water.  Allen looks pretty good.   What he throws away with mistakes and bonehead plays (hopefully correctable) he makes up for with that "it" factor he seems to bring at crunch time in the 4th quarter.

 

ps  Cleveland's kicker doesn't suck and Taylor is 2 and 0 with wins over the Steelers and Saints going into the Jets game where Mayfield came in and then (giving him the Jets win) lost 5 of the next 7.  Cleveland is just a bad place to be a QB.

TT's longballs lost some of their accuracy IMO, not because receivers were dropping them.

Whether he was 0-2 or 2-0 he still stunk and was lousy against the Jets also.  Mayfield was an epiphany on offense the moment he came in, sealing TT's fate in CLE.