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KzooMike

2004 Bills still the best team of the 2000 era?

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14 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I came , to this thread prepared to argue that 2019 was the best and I think I still will, but the OP makes some solid points.  

 

In particular, 2004 had an impressive roster, even if some past their prime (like Spikes and Bledsoe).  

 

I don't remember plays and games like some of you do, but I can remember how I felt about that team. I felt they were overachievers. I didn't believe they were a good team that deserved to be in the playoffs; I thought they were a flawed team that went on a run and was in position to make the playoffs.  I thought 2019 was a good team that wasn't yet complete but nevertheless deserved to be in the playoffs. 

 

It isn't the entire explanation, but my feeling in 2004 was that the Bills had a loser at quarterback who sometimes won, and I'm my feeling in 2019 was that they had a winner at quarterback who sometime lost.  

 

And I think part of the explanation was coaching.  In 2004, Mularkey was a rookie coach, and he didn't get his team to win the game it needed to make the playoffs.  He never got to the playoffs in five seasons as a head coach.  In 2017, McDermott was a rookie coach, and he did get his team to the playoffs, and he's been to the playoffs in two of his first three seasons. 

 

I think 2019 was the best of the era.

 

Shaw - didn't Mularkey take the Titans to the playoffs at 9-7 and then get fired?

 

Also, I would not have said Spikes was over the hill in 2004.  He was a beast that year

 

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I was going to let it go as I like Shaw, but Pikes was in his prime.  He played from 98-12 so in 04, he was peaking as a 6 year veteran.  He had a lot of good years after Buffalo, and thought it was stupid to move on from Takeo and London, both of which played for very long careers.  Think about it, Takeo played through 2012, 15 years, and Fletcher for 16 years, both jettisoned after the 06 season.  One more example of the constant mismanagement of this team forever.

 

Thank god this is the best I’ve seen the Bills run and coached since the Polian/Levy years, and before my time the mid 60’s Bills winning championships.

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1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

and to answer the question, what about as a whole?

 

That would be the "no" part.

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The 2004 team beat up on junior high teams. 

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Just now, Beast said:

The 2004 team beat up on junior high teams. 

 

Almost like we did this year too, huh?  Except for the beating up part

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Imo Bledsoe was on the verge of collapse when we signed him, he was motivated for what, eight games? The team was a bandaid job, much like all the teams during the drought. Very little competent thought went into the make up of those teams, and we saw the results of that. There was some good talent, but nowhere near enough. 
 

Go Bills!!!

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32 minutes ago, Beast said:

The 2004 team beat up on junior high teams. 

 

Except for the last game of the season...

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5 hours ago, Foxx said:

huh.. my memory was that we lost to a bunch of mostly third stringers.

 

That's been the narrative lo these many years, but these were the starting lineups + Willie Parker for Pittsburgh.   Hardly a mis-match in Buffalo's favor.

 

image.thumb.png.138319a6cbca51b28de5e8427a1687c9.png

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10 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

 

That's been the narrative lo these many years, but these were the starting lineups + Willie Parker for Pittsburgh.   Hardly a mis-match in Buffalo's favor.

 

image.thumb.png.138319a6cbca51b28de5e8427a1687c9.png

yes, i understood that mostly second stringers started but they were replaced at various stages throughout the game to the point where it was the third team against our first by the start of the second half. of course, as i get older my memory is not what it used to be so i may be conflating this with another game.

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Tommy Maddox was a schlub.  They never should have lost to a team with him starting.

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1 hour ago, mushypeaches said:

 

Shaw - didn't Mularkey take the Titans to the playoffs at 9-7 and then get fired?

 

Also, I would not have said Spikes was over the hill in 2004.  He was a beast that year

 

 

Took then there, beat Andy Reid, and got fired. 

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20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Took then there, beat Andy Reid, and got fired. 

You're right.  I didn't read the stats carefully enough.  As Gunner said, he made the playoffs once, in his last season as head coach, went 1-1 in the

playoffs and got fired. 

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4 hours ago, JetsFan20 said:


Im not a Bills fan

 

FINALLY.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

I was going to let it go as I like Shaw, but Pikes was in his prime.  He played from 98-12 so in 04, he was peaking as a 6 year veteran.  He had a lot of good years after Buffalo, and thought it was stupid to move on from Takeo and London, both of which played for very long careers.  Think about it, Takeo played through 2012, 15 years, and Fletcher for 16 years, both jettisoned after the 06 season.  One more example of the constant mismanagement of this team forever.

 

Thank god this is the best I’ve seen the Bills run and coached since the Polian/Levy years, and before my time the mid 60’s Bills winning championships.

That's not my recollection of Spikes at all.  He rarely was the super-stud in Buffalo that he had been in his first five seasons in Cincinnati.  After five straight 100-tackle seasons in Cincy, he had one in Buffalo, got close his second season, then start having injuries. My recollection is that even his best years he wasn't the standout guy he had been - looking back at the stats, I gotta say that that recollection is a little clouded - he was All-Pro in 2004, with five INTs.   Eventually he was just ordinary, but clearly the decline started after 2004.  Did he tear his achilles in 2005?   I had no trouble when management let him go.  I see looking back at the stats that he had a couple 100 tackle seasons late in his career.  

 

Fletcher, on the other hand, was a big mistake, and I thought so at the time. 

 

Thanks for the comment and correction. 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

You're right.  I didn't read the stats carefully enough.  As Gunner said, he made the playoffs once, in his last season as head coach, went 1-1 in the

playoffs and got fired. 

This coaching comparison shines an interesting light on McDermott.  He gets credit for figuring out how to get his team to the playoffs twice in three years, while Mularkey failed in his first season as HC and didn't make it until his fifth season.  On the other hand, Mularkey has a playoff win and McDermott is 0-2.  Puts in pretty clear perspective what McDermott's next hurdle is. 

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1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

That's not my recollection of Spikes at all.  He rarely was the super-stud in Buffalo that he had been in his first five seasons in Cincinnati.  After five straight 100-tackle seasons in Cincy, he had one in Buffalo, got close his second season, then start having injuries. My recollection is that even his best years he wasn't the standout guy he had been - looking back at the stats, I gotta say that that recollection is a little clouded - he was All-Pro in 2004, with five INTs.   Eventually he was just ordinary, but clearly the decline started after 2004.  Did he tear his achilles in 2005?   I had no trouble when management let him go.  I see looking back at the stats that he had a couple 100 tackle seasons late in his career.  

 

Fletcher, on the other hand, was a big mistake, and I thought so at the time. 

 

Thanks for the comment and correction. 

 

 

 

This coaching comparison shines an interesting light on McDermott.  He gets credit for figuring out how to get his team to the playoffs twice in three years, while Mularkey failed in his first season as HC and didn't make it until his fifth season.  On the other hand, Mularkey has a playoff win and McDermott is 0-2.  Puts in pretty clear perspective what McDermott's next hurdle is. 

He tore his Achilles in week 3 in 2005 against Atlanta and wasn’t the same player after.... he was a stud before that. Great player prejnjury. 

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The 1999 team with Flutie and Johnson should have been an AFC finalist.  The Dehaven led ST gave up that miracle finish.  Flutie should have played the game from the beginning and Wade was a great defensive coach but not ready to win as a HC. The most frustrating loss as a fan in history.  The team was great. 

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5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

You're right.  I didn't read the stats carefully enough.  As Gunner said, he made the playoffs once, in his last season as head coach, went 1-1 in the

playoffs and got fired. 

 

And just for clarity I was only making it as an accuracy point. I don't have Mularkey close to McDermott as a coach. How he got not one but two more cracks as a Head Coach after Buffalo is an absolute mystery to me. 

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2014 team would murder all the garbage Bills offenses of the last century.  If they kept EJ, they probably win the SB. 😉

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That defense in that era had a couple of absolutely great years. I actually can’t recall in recent memory a top 3 defense as good as they were not making the playoff. 
 

One of those years they held the Bengals to something like 25 yards. It was insane. 

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16 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Allen is already better than Bledsoe. Bledsoe sucked here. 

Are you back on your meds Scotty?:o

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