Mr. WEO Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Doc said: Yes, the Bandits...and Amerks, and most importantly, the Bills. So much for the silly "lightning in a bottle once" claim just because the Sabres (when you've always thought the NHL is a joke, but now all of a sudden it's important) have been struggling to win. But not for a lack of effort or bad faith on the part of Terry. And obviously the fans want the Sabres to win. But the most important thing is actually having a team. Tell me what new owner will spend money on the team and keep it in Buffalo like Terry is and will, much less one who will not be inept, and I'll agree that it's worth a shot. Failing that, they're not being sold so hope things eventually turn around (since you now seem to care about them) and enjoy the Bills. No points for minor league hockey. Let's not even mention lacrosse. Come doc. The topic is not "do I like the NHL?" or "do I think the NHL is 'important'?". Lame diversion, doc. The question is: has the Pegula ownership of the Sabres been a disaster (unequivocally yes, as I have documented and you haven't cogently/convincingly argued against) AND could another owner produce a better product. It would be difficult not to. Your insistence that the fans of the Sabres MUST suffer eternally because all other buyer would absolutely move the team is not a strong one. You certainly would NOT be making it if the Bills were coming off of 4 playoff appearances of the previous 6 seasons after Ralph was gone and Pegula drove them into irrelevance for 9 straight years with 5 coaches in 7 years and 3 GMs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 29 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: No points for minor league hockey. Let's not even mention lacrosse. Come doc. The topic is not "do I like the NHL?" or "do I think the NHL is 'important'?". Lame diversion, doc. The question is: has the Pegula ownership of the Sabres been a disaster (unequivocally yes, as I have documented and you haven't cogently/convincingly argued against) AND could another owner produce a better product. It would be difficult not to. Your insistence that the fans of the Sabres MUST suffer eternally because all other buyer would absolutely move the team is not a strong one. You certainly would NOT be making it if the Bills were coming off of 4 playoff appearances of the previous 6 seasons after Ralph was gone and Pegula drove them into irrelevance for 9 straight years with 5 coaches in 7 years and 3 GMs. Well then, the NHL is a minor pro sports franchise in comparison to the Bills, like you've been saying all these years. No deflection there. You can't pick and choose what counts when it doesn't suit your argument. And everyone agrees that the most important franchise for the Pegulas, and Buffalo, is the Bills. As for the last sentence, I mentioned this to you before. Terry kept Regier and Ruff for 2 years and gave them everything they wanted...and they failed. What was it that Terry did to them? Look, you entered the fray when you claimed that it would be impossible for a new owner to do worse. I said that a new owner might not be any better and actually worse, might move the team. Your whistling past the graveyard and "have they moved?" non-arguments notwithstanding, it's a real possibility and not worth testing. Thanks for the histrionics but Sabres fans won't "suffer eternally." And if they do, at least they'll have a team to suffer over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 14 minutes ago, Doc said: Well then, the NHL is a minor pro sports franchise in comparison to the Bills, like you've been saying all these years. No deflection there. You can't pick and choose what counts when it doesn't suit your argument. And everyone agrees that the most important franchise for the Pegulas, and Buffalo, is the Bills. As for the last sentence, I mentioned this to you before. Terry kept Regier and Ruff for 2 years and gave them everything they wanted...and they failed. What was it that Terry did to them? Look, you entered the fray when you claimed that it would be impossible for a new owner to do worse. I said that a new owner might not be any better and actually worse, might move the team. Your whistling past the graveyard and "have they moved?" non-arguments notwithstanding, it's a real possibility and not worth testing. Thanks for the histrionics but Sabres fans won't "suffer eternally." And if they do, at least they'll have a team to suffer over. Good for the soul! I stand by my statement. No owner could do worse than absolute futility and FO/coaching chaos. I haven't changed my stance on the status of the NFL in the popular psyche in this country. But my attitude toward that league is completely beside the point. I can point out the obvious regardless of whether I think it is "minor". There's not fruit for you in repeating that off-point point. A new owner wouldn't move the team mostly because, in that league, they are already in the best market they could find. Regardless, it's a dumb argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Good for the soul! I stand by my statement. No owner could do worse than absolute futility and FO/coaching chaos. I haven't changed my stance on the status of the NFL in the popular psyche in this country. But my attitude toward that league is completely beside the point. I can point out the obvious regardless of whether I think it is "minor". There's not fruit for you in repeating that off-point point. A new owner wouldn't move the team mostly because, in that league, they are already in the best market they could find. Regardless, it's a dumb argument. Yeah, thinking the team wouldn't move because they're already in the best market isn't a dumb argument. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Doc said: Yeah, thinking the team wouldn't move because they're already in the best market isn't a dumb argument. LOL! Why, because you say so? They have the highest local TV ratings than any franchise in the NHL. They average bigger home crowds than The Islanders, Devils, LA Kings, San Jose, Carolina, Anaheim and 5 other franchises. They draw about as many as the Rangers and the Bruins. And yet even in these markets, which are huge or had significant recent success or both can't outdraw a team or get better local ratings that is in a small town and has sucked for nearly 10 years since the owner bought them. Yet, there's ANOTHER place the Sabres could move to and do better financially......because you say so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: Why, because you say so? They have the highest local TV ratings than any franchise in the NHL. They average bigger home crowds than The Islanders, Devils, LA Kings, San Jose, Carolina, Anaheim and 5 other franchises. They draw about as many as the Rangers and the Bruins. And yet even in these markets, which are huge or had significant recent success or both can't outdraw a team or get better local ratings that is in a small town and has sucked for nearly 10 years since the owner bought them. Yet, there's ANOTHER place the Sabres could move to and do better financially......because you say so? No not because I say so; because there always end up being more/better markets after you claim "now there are no more/better markets." I mean, how many times did you insist the NFL would never go back to LA? Now there are 2 teams there, with 2 former NFL markets out in the cold. Las Vegas was a new market. Seattle could be a great market for the NHL. Hamilton could also be one. Baltimore is another name I've heard mentioned. All it takes is a new owner without ties to the area to look for a more lucrative market and poof, the team is gone. But I realize why you cling to it this notion: because of your false claim that Ralph only kept the team in Buffalo because there were no better markets. And you're still doing it. As for attendance, the Sabres are around 20th when you factor-in seating capacity. And they have some of the lowest ticket prices. Build a bigger arena in a better market and charge more and voila! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, Doc said: No not because I say so; because there always end up being more/better markets after you claim "now there are no more/better markets." I mean, how many times did you insist the NFL would never go back to LA? Now there are 2 teams there, with 2 former NFL markets out in the cold. Las Vegas was a new market. Seattle could be a great market for the NHL. Hamilton could also be one. Baltimore is another name I've heard mentioned. All it takes is a new owner without ties to the area to look for a more lucrative market and poof, the team is gone. But I realize why you cling to it this notion: because of your false claim that Ralph only kept the team in Buffalo because there were no better markets. And you're still doing it. As for attendance, the Sabres are around 20th when you factor-in seating capacity. And they have some of the lowest ticket prices. Build a bigger arena in a better market and charge more and voila! Ralph was bluffing. He never wanted to move and had nowhere to go. That “Hamilton” market is HUGE! And Baltimore is a huge horned of NHL hockey—when they get tired of following the Caps! That rollin in the dough Shanghai-La is DYING to build a “bigger arena” for big time pro hockey! POOF!! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: Ralph was bluffing. He never wanted to move and had nowhere to go. That “Hamilton” market is HUGE! And Baltimore is a huge horned of NHL hockey—when they get tired of following the Caps! That rollin in the dough Shanghai-La is DYING to build a “bigger arena” for big time pro hockey! POOF!! Lol How about that LA market, WEO? Never gonna see a team, much less 2, there again, eh? LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 I have only read a few of these posts, but I commend both of you for your endurance! GO BILLS! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Says Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 On 6/22/2020 at 9:36 AM, JR in Pittsburgh said: I could be wrong, but I thought the Pegulas sold virtually all of their oil and gas assets year ago to Shell. That’s why they are so wealthy. They may a few little assets here and there, but that’s just chump change—more for a hobby. Am I wrong? Are they still in the oil and gas business? More like 10 years ago, but started another company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Doc said: How about that LA market, WEO? Never gonna see a team, much less 2, there again, eh? LOL! Yes. LA is starving for another NHL franchise doc. Especially one that can bring in overr 17k at the gate! Those are Chargers numbers!! is Bettman on record pushing for that? Is anyone? You should have hit erase at “Hamilton” doc. But I did appreciate the chuckle. And...Baltimore lol Edited June 28, 2020 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 32 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Yes. LA is starving for another NHL franchise doc. Especially one that can bring in overr 17k at the gate! Those are Chargers numbers!! is Bettman on record pushing for that? Is anyone? You should have hit erase at “Hamilton” doc. But I did appreciate the chuckle. And...Baltimore lol No, LA was in reference to your claim for years that NFL markets were saturated and Ralph could never move the team there. Or any of the half dozen cities to which teams were moved or expanded into since the 90's. And 2 teams in LA are closer than Hamilton is to Toronto or Baltimore is to Landover. Not sure what point you think you're making there considering towns would welcome their own teams, there are the Ravens (who regained a franchise after losing it despite the proximity to), the Redskins, and there are 6M people in the greater Toronto area and a waiting list for season tickets for Leafs games. But what about Seattle? You conveniently ignored that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Doc said: No, LA was in reference to your claim for years that NFL markets were saturated and Ralph could never move the team there. Or any of the half dozen cities to which teams were moved or expanded into since the 90's. And 2 teams in LA are closer than Hamilton is to Toronto or Baltimore is to Landover. Not sure what point you think you're making there considering towns would welcome their own teams, there are the Ravens (who regained a franchise after losing it despite the proximity to), the Redskins, and there are 6M people in the greater Toronto area and a waiting list for season tickets for Leafs games. But what about Seattle? You conveniently ignored that one. Ralph moving the LA was obviously impossible. Not even the mythical San Antonio was a viable option for that old coot. You’re just making stuff up as usual. Stop with the a Hamilton nonsense. It’s embarrassing you. Seattle does know what hockey is. They LOST their NBA franchise —-and the NBA is a viable league. How many NHL teams passed in Seattle so far? Edited June 28, 2020 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Ralph moving the LA was obviously impossible. Not even the mythical San Antonio was a viable option for that old coot. You’re just making stuff up as usual. Stop with the a Hamilton nonsense. It’s embarrassing you. Seattle does know what hockey is. Anywhere was possible. John Wawrow, who had contacts in and around the team, told you as much. You just didn't want to hear it. No matter. I wasn't the one who suggested Hamilton, but it's not even close to nonsense. It's 30 miles from Toronto and draws from the same population, while again, the Leafs have a waiting list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 17 minutes ago, Doc said: Anywhere was possible. John Wawrow, who had contacts in and around the team, told you as much. You just didn't want to hear it. No matter. I wasn't the one who suggested Hamilton, but it's not even close to nonsense. It's 30 miles from Toronto and draws from the same population, while again, the Leafs have a waiting list. How many times has the NHL expanded while completely ignoring Hamilton? There will never be a team there. There NHL repeatedly expanded into NASCAR country instead of a suburb of Toronto. If “waiting lists” led to teams relocating, there would have been long ago second teams in Green Bay and New England. You're flailing with this (and “Seattle”) nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: How many times has the NHL expanded while completely ignoring Hamilton? There will never be a team there. There NHL repeatedly expanded into NASCAR country instead of a suburb of Toronto. If “waiting lists” led to teams relocating, there would have been long ago second teams in Green Bay and New England. You're flailing with this (and “Seattle”) nonsense. Try and keep up. The topic is/has been a new owner moving the Sabres, i.e. how a new owner could be worse. The NHL wasn't/isn't going to expand into Hamilton with the Leafs and Sabres were there, obviously. I only mentioned/added expansion to show you how wrong you've been all these years when you claimed there was nowhere for Ralph to move the Bills just because you didn't like him and couldn't bring yourself to admit that he kept the team in Buffalo because he never really wanted to move the team ("he's an old coot," good one!). You still haven't learned and are now claiming the Sabres can't move. And Seattle would be a great market for an NHL team. The corporate boxes and sponsorships... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 39 minutes ago, Doc said: Try and keep up. The topic is/has been a new owner moving the Sabres, i.e. how a new owner could be worse. The NHL wasn't/isn't going to expand into Hamilton with the Leafs and Sabres were there, obviously. I only mentioned/added expansion to show you how wrong you've been all these years when you claimed there was nowhere for Ralph to move the Bills just because you didn't like him and couldn't bring yourself to admit that he kept the team in Buffalo because he never really wanted to move the team ("he's an old coot," good one!). You still haven't learned and are now claiming the Sabres can't move. And Seattle would be a great market for an NHL team. The corporate boxes and sponsorships... It started with "a new owner could not do worse" running that team. You have made it into a new owner would automatically move the team. Hamilton isn't going to get a team located there just because there's a waiting list for Leafs tickets. That makes no more sense than moving them to Brooklyn because the Rangers have a waiting list. Wait....are the Sabres moving to Brooklyn?? Talk about "the corporate boxes and sponsorships"!! Ralph bluffed money out of Erie County at least twice with his "moving musings". He had no plans. Even Kraft's bluff came with blueprints and a jilted public (your town, doc). Wilson had nothing but frightened Erie County execs and fans to get what he wanted. Both groups came through. I just looked up Seattle and they already are getting a team. So you're saying Sabres fans have to start worrying about the "Baltimore Sabres" if Pegula sells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: It started with "a new owner could not do worse" running that team. You have made it into a new owner would automatically move the team. Hamilton isn't going to get a team located there just because there's a waiting list for Leafs tickets. That makes no more sense than moving them to Brooklyn because the Rangers have a waiting list. Wait....are the Sabres moving to Brooklyn?? Talk about "the corporate boxes and sponsorships"!! Ralph bluffed money out of Erie County at least twice with his "moving musings". He had no plans. Even Kraft's bluff came with blueprints and a jilted public (your town, doc). Wilson had nothing but frightened Erie County execs and fans to get what he wanted. Both groups came through. I just looked up Seattle and they already are getting a team. So you're saying Sabres fans have to start worrying about the "Baltimore Sabres" if Pegula sells. Nice try but it started with this: Yeah, both groups came through. Because the owners never had any real intention of moving the team. That doesn't mean they couldn't. And what do you know, Seattle is getting a team. What was that about "nonsense" about there being no new markets? But now they're really really all gone. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Doc said: Nice try but it started with this: Yeah, both groups came through. Because the owners never had any real intention of moving the team. That doesn't mean they couldn't. And what do you know, Seattle is getting a team. What was that about "nonsense" about there being no new markets? But now they're really really all gone. LOL! The above cut and paste is your response to my post: I mean it was right above yours! The markets aren't gone after all--my bad! This opens it WIDE. NYC is ripe for the (re)picking! So much ticket demand! They will outdraw the Islanders (who will then be free to move to Hamilton??). Maybe.....San Antonio! Isn't that where Ralph was "going to move" the team (or something). Mobile Alabama? Why not--they have some companies down there and they sure know about air-conditioning! Baltimore is dead broke....so don't count them out for building a new NHL arena! Forget Hamilton----how about..... London?? Sure it's the one in Canada, but at least the NHL could kinda scoop its serial abuser (the NFL) and claim they were first in actually putting a franchise in London!! Edited June 28, 2020 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: They aren't gone after all. NYC is ripe for the picking! Maybe.....San Antonio! Isn't that where Ralph was going to move the team (or something). Ralph had no where to go. And he wasn't ever going. He did what owners do---make noise about leaving to get free stadiums and upgrades. Yeah, nowhere. Just Carolina, Jacksonville (would have been a mistake, but...), Houston, Cleveland, Baltimore, LA (twice) and maybe even Vegas. But outside of those places, nowhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts