Fracking industry projected to have $300B in losses

[Nextmanup]

On 6/22/2020 at 8:47 AM, cage said:

This is a real problem when we think of future for Pegulas and their ability to continue to be viable owners.  We're already seeing the affect of this related to the Sabres.  They're seeing a trifecta of problems in front of them that may mushroom faster than we think.  

 

1. Rocked in core industry, where they can't just "dig a hole if they need $"

2. No NHL ticket revenue given they won't make playoffs and will have difficulty putting fans in stands next season

3. While NFL teams get substantial revenue from TV contract, the Bills have big money re-signings ahead of them including coach and GM

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/22/shale-industry-will-be-rocked-by-300-billion-in-losses-and-a-wave-of-bankruptcies-deloitte-says.html?__source=twitter|main

 

The Pegulas have already shifted to an exclusive financial focus with the Sabres.

 

Crazy spending Terry is long gone.  They are in slash and burn mode now.

 

This cloud has a silver lining: I think Pegula may be persuaded to sell the Sabres in the near term and focus solely on the Bills.

 

New ownership with the Sabres is the best thing that can happen to that franchise at this point.

 

 

 

[Doc]

20 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

The Pegulas have already shifted to an exclusive financial focus with the Sabres.

 

Crazy spending Terry is long gone.  They are in slash and burn mode now.

 

This cloud has a silver lining: I think Pegula may be persuaded to sell the Sabres in the near term and focus solely on the Bills.

 

New ownership with the Sabres is the best thing that can happen to that franchise at this point.

Is it?

[Mr. WEO]

14 minutes ago, Doc said:

Is it?

 

The theory may be that it would be impossible to do worse.

[Doc]

56 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

The theory may be that it would be impossible to do worse.

 

It's possible they do no better.  Or move the team.

[aristocrat]

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

I have but thought a joke was something funny.

That hurt my feelings 

[Mr. WEO]

21 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It's possible they do no better.  Or move the team.

He bought the team and the immediately stunk and have since.  Many other teams have “done better” since. 

[BuffBillsForLife]

Is it possible to convince Golisano that he wants to own the Sabres again?

[Mango]

Since we are talking the Pegulas and dysfunction. Here is a a little diddy, right up there with the “maintain family lifestyle” slide deck. 
 

“No one has ever taken me up on this, but I think there should be a trial period, right?” the co-owner and president of the Buffalo Bills and Sabres said during a Zoom call Tuesday that was part of the two-day NFL Quarterback Coach Summit, geared toward helping minority candidates move up the professional ladder.“

 

I am guessing she was trying to say that hiring coaches is such a large commitment of time and money, and vetting is difficult. But it didn’t quite come out that way. 

[Doc]

40 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

He bought the team and the immediately stunk and have since.  Many other teams have “done better” since. 

 

And yet he bought the Bills and in his 3rd full season of ownership they were back in the playoffs after 17 years.  The NHL is the red-headed stepchild of pro sports while the NFL is the golden boy.  If I had to pick one of the 2 franchises to succeed, the Bills would be it. 

 

28 minutes ago, BuffBillsForLife said:

Is it possible to convince Golisano that he wants to own the Sabres again?

 

He never wanted to own them in the first place.  And they were on the downswing when he sold them.

 

1 minute ago, Mango said:

Since we are talking the Pegulas and dysfunction. Here is a a little diddy, right up there with the “maintain family lifestyle” slide deck. 
 

“No one has ever taken me up on this, but I think there should be a trial period, right?” the co-owner and president of the Buffalo Bills and Sabres said during a Zoom call Tuesday that was part of the two-day NFL Quarterback Coach Summit, geared toward helping minority candidates move up the professional ladder.“

 

I am guessing she was trying to say that hiring coaches is such a large commitment of time and money, and vetting is difficult. But it didn’t quite come out that way. 

 

What part should we be outraged over?  The "trial" part?

[Mango]

17 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

And yet he bought the Bills and in his 3rd full season of ownership they were back in the playoffs after 17 years.  The NHL is the red-headed stepchild of pro sports while the NFL is the golden boy.  If I had to pick one of the 2 franchises to succeed, the Bills would be it. 

 

 

He never wanted to own them in the first place.  And they were on the downswing when he sold them.

 

 

What part should we be outraged over?  The "trial" part?

 

I am not sure outrage is the right word. But those were her comments on a league wide call, specifically to address solutions for the lack of hiring of minorities in HC/GM positions. It reads (at least to me like) like her solution to the problem is "it would be easier to higher minorities if I could hire/fire them faster or with less commitment"

 

I think her point has some credence. I mean, you don't know what you have until you are fully committed to it. So from a general hiring perspective it makes sense in a way. (Although I would argue that if she hired somebody who knew about the specific sport to help, it would drastically reduce her risk) But given the nature of the forum it kinda sucks. 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Mango
Edit: format

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

I am not sure outrage is the right word. But those were her comments on a league wide call, specifically to address solutions for the lack of hiring of minorities in HC/GM positions. It reads (at least to me like) like her solution to the problem is "it would be easier to higher minorities if I could hire/fire them faster or with less commitment"

 

I think her point is has some credence. I mean, you don't know what you have until you are fully committed to it. So from a general hiring perspective it makes sense in a way. (Although I would argue that if she hired somebody who knew about the specific sport to help, it would drastically reduce her risk) But given the nature of the forum it kinda sucks. 

 

A tryout period could be a solution.  In the absence of any other solutions, outside of mandated hirings. 

[Saint Doug]

5 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

It’s hard to decipher jokes in text form unless they start with Knock Knock.

Or end with the word “NOT!”

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

And yet he bought the Bills and in his 3rd full season of ownership they were back in the playoffs after 17 years.  The NHL is the red-headed stepchild of pro sports while the NFL is the golden boy.  If I had to pick one of the 2 franchises to succeed, the Bills would be it. 

 

 

He never wanted to own them in the first place.  And they were on the downswing when he sold them.

 

 

What part should we be outraged over?  The "trial" part?

 

That's nice.  But not germane to the topic.  

 

The "downswing"?  But that do you mean "coming off consecutive playoff years the year before Pegula bought the team"?  Good eye.

 

You make it sound as though it's impossible for a franchise to succeed in the NHL  (because....NFL??).  Yet look at some of the franchises that went to the finals since Pegula bought the team---hotbeds of hockey such as Nashville, Tampa Bay and San Jose (all with NFL teams).  The only times their fans see ice outside of those stadiums is the cubes the fancy ones pour their FourLoko over into re-used Big Gulp cups. 

 

And Vegas never even had a franchise, and when they got one, it immediately made it to the Finals.  Then the playoffs again the next year.

 

 

[major]

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

That's nice.  But not germane to the topic.  

 

The "downswing"?  But that do you mean "coming off consecutive playoff years the year before Pegula bought the team"?  Good eye.

 

You make it sound as though it's impossible for a franchise to succeed in the NHL  (because....NFL??).  Yet look at some of the franchises that went to the finals since Pegula bought the team---hotbeds of hockey such as Nashville, Tampa Bay and San Jose (all with NFL teams).  The only times their fans see ice outside of those stadiums is the cubes the fancy ones pour their FourLoko over into re-used Big Gulp cups. 

 

And Vegas never even had a franchise, and when they got one, it immediately made it to the Finals.  Then the playoffs again the next year.

 

Wait, what was the topic?  That the solution for the Sabres is new owners because there are multi-billionaires just lining-up to buy the Sabres, keep them in Buffalo and keep spending loads of money on players, like Terry has been doing?  And on top of that we can be assured of the team being good?

 

Yes, on the downswing.  Terry kept Regier and Ruff and gave them blank checks to get the players they needed so they wouldn't keep losing in the 1st round of the playoffs.  After 2 seasons of failing to return to them, they were fired.  So he brought in a well-respected guy in Nolan and then a SC winner in Bylsma, and they failed.  And again in each of the past 2 seasons the Sabres at one point led the NHL in points only to ultimately still miss the playoffs. 

 

Yeah, I remember the Panthers and Jags being in the CG's the year after they entered the league.  It's the advantage of having no dead cap and being able to choose from among some really good players in the entry draft. 

 

I'll stick with Terry and hope that better things are coming for the Sabres.  In the meantime, I'll enjoy knowing the teams won't move in my lifetime and watching the far more important team, the Bills, play for years.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Doc

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

“At one point the Sabres led the NHL in points” 

 

When.. 15 games in? ?

 

You sound like Terry himself. 

 

They also did it midway through the 2018/2019 season.  But keep doing you, Scott.

[Mr. WEO]

13 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Wait, what was the topic?  That the solution for the Sabres is new owners because there are multi-billionaires just lining-up to buy the Sabres, keep them in Buffalo and keep spending loads of money on players, like Terry has been doing?  And on top of that we can be assured of the team being good?

 

Yes, on the downswing.  Terry kept Regier and Ruff and gave them blank checks to get the players they needed so they wouldn't keep losing in the 1st round of the playoffs.  After 2 seasons of failing to return to them, they were fired.  So he brought in a well-respected guy in Nolan and then a SC winner in Bylsma, and they failed.  And again in each of the past 2 seasons the Sabres at one point led the NHL in points only to ultimately still miss the playoffs. 

 

Yeah, I remember the Panthers and Jags being in the CG's the year after they entered the league.  It's the advantage of having no dead cap and being able to choose from among some really good players in the entry draft. 

 

I'll stick with Terry and hope that better things are coming for the Sabres.  In the meantime, I'll enjoy knowing the teams won't move in my lifetime and watching the far more important team, the Bills, play for years.

 

Nolan was a bum who head coached 6 seasons  (only 2 at a stretch) over 20 years.  Buffalo dumped him twice.  Players hated him his last stint in Buffalo.

 

Bylsma was canned by the new GM in Pittsburgh and his coaching magic immediately disappeared once he got to Buffalo.  What happened to the poor Penguins without him? Nothing--his replacement lasted half a season and Pittsburgh then dumped HIM, and the guy who took over midseason won them consecutive SC's!    To help you understand it another way, the over 9 seasons, the Penguins went through 4 coaches and won 3 SC's----2 of them after replacing the coach midseason!.  Yet all 3 fired coaches were "winners" of tons of games and never missed the playoffs.  

 

The current coach of the Sabres is a nobody, but it's all they could get.  For GM's, Murray was a total bum.  Botteril....Pegula figured "hey he's got that winning Penguins smell on him!"  Turns out he had no business running a team.  Will make a great assistant somewhere though, i bet.

 

Led in points?  Not for long!  After "leading in points", both seasons were driven straight back into the ground.  

 

Disastrous ownership.  As for the Bills, after the totally predictable error that was Rex Ryan, Pegula made his single intelligent sports personnel decision in hiring McD.  That hiring brought Beane along soon after as McD's bro. 

 

He "struck oil" exactly one time since he got to town.  Why should Sabres fans suffer endlessly?  Just because of  fear another owner would move the team?  

 

[Doc]

9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Nolan was a bum who head coached 6 seasons  (only 2 at a stretch) over 20 years.  Buffalo dumped him twice.  Players hated him his last stint in Buffalo.

 

Bylsma was canned by the new GM in Pittsburgh and his coaching magic immediately disappeared once he got to Buffalo.  What happened to the poor Penguins without him? Nothing--his replacement lasted half a season and Pittsburgh then dumped HIM, and the guy who took over midseason won them consecutive SC's!    To help you understand it another way, the over 9 seasons, the Penguins went through 4 coaches and won 3 SC's----2 of them after replacing the coach midseason!.  Yet all 3 fired coaches were "winners" of tons of games and never missed the playoffs.  

 

The current coach of the Sabres is a nobody, but it's all they could get.  For GM's, Murray was a total bum.  Botteril....Pegula figured "hey he's got that winning Penguins smell on him!"  Turns out he had no business running a team.  Will make a great assistant somewhere though, i bet.

 

Led in points?  Not for long!  After "leading in points", both seasons were driven straight back into the ground.  

 

Disastrous ownership.  As for the Bills, after the totally predictable error that was Rex Ryan, Pegula made his single intelligent sports personnel decision in hiring McD.  That hiring brought Beane along soon after as McD's bro. 

 

He "struck oil" exactly one time since he got to town.  Why should Sabres fans suffer endlessly?  Just because of  fear another owner would move the team? 

 

The Amerks and Bandits have also been doing well.  That's 3 out of his 4 sports teams including, again, the most important one by a mile.

 

And fear?  LOL!  You've been singing that tune for the last 2 decades (at least) now.  How many teams have moved/been added not only in the NHL but the NFL over that time period?

 

Again he kept Regier and Ruff, who had a lot of success under Golisano's parsimonious ownership, and gave them whatever they wanted.  What was the problem there?  Too much money (remember how much you railed against Ralph for not spending money?)?  Too many scouts?  Too nice facilities? 

 

The Penguins got their first SC win of the Crosby era under Bylsma after taking over mid-season when they were out of a playoff spot.  And remember how many people wanted Dan Babcock, only to see him flame out with a better team in Toronto?

 

Sabres fans will just have to wait a little longer.  Or not (it's their choice).  Again there's more to it than simply "just get a new owner."

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

The Amerks and Bandits have also been doing well.  That's 3 out of his 4 sports teams including, again, the most important one by a mile.

 

And fear?  LOL!  You've been singing that tune for the last 2 decades (at least) now.  How many teams have moved/been added not only in the NHL but the NFL over that time period?

 

Again he kept Regier and Ruff, who had a lot of success under Golisano's parsimonious ownership, and gave them whatever they wanted.  What was the problem there?  Too much money (remember how much you railed against Ralph for not spending money?)?  Too many scouts?  Too nice facilities? 

 

The Penguins got their first SC win of the Crosby era under Bylsma after taking over mid-season when they were out of a playoff spot.  And remember how many people wanted Dan Babcock, only to see him flame out with a better team in Toronto?

 

Sabres fans will just have to wait a little longer.  Or not (it's their choice).  Again there's more to it than simply "just get a new owner."

 

Lol...Bandits. 

 

Pegula should just promote all the Amerks, trade away all the current Sabres, pocket the cash and end up with the same degree of failure.  Who would care?  All the Sabres fans could still go watch some hockey at the stadium.  That's all they want right...a team in Buffalo?

 

How many times have the Bills been moved, compared to the times we heard they were going "to move" over the past 25 years?  

 

And I "complained" about Ralph endlessly complaining about not making enough money off the backs of the teams that made monster TV deals possible and Ralph a very wealthy man.  You know that.

 

One "generational player" was all it took for the Penguins to begin a SC era?  Didn't the Sabres draft 2 generational talents the past couple of years?  Where's the Cups?

 

Buffalo got the super hot Bylsma...and he was a dud.  Pegula dumped him after 2 seasons, just as he did with Nolan before him and Hausley after him. In his first 7 seasons as owner, the Sabres had 5 coaches!  Pretty awesome.  Spending money cannot overcome ineptitude.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by Mr. WEO

[Doc]

14 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Lol...Bandits. 

 

Pegula should just promote all the Amerks, trade away all the current Sabres, pocket the cash and end up with the same degree of failure.  Who would care?  All the Sabres fans could still go watch some hockey at the stadium.  That's all they want right...a team in Buffalo?

 

How many times have the Bills been moved, compared to the times we heard they were going "to move" over the past 25 years?  

 

And I "complained" about Ralph endlessly complaining about not making enough money off the backs of the teams that made monster TV deals possible and Ralph a very wealthy man.  You know that.

 

One "generational player" was all it took for the Penguins to begin a SC era?  Didn't the Sabres draft 2 generational talents the past couple of years?  Where's the Cups?

 

Buffalo got the super hot Bylsma...and he was a dud.  Pegula dumped him after 2 seasons, just as he did with Nolan before him and Hausley after him. In his first 7 seasons as owner, the Sabres had 5 coaches!  Pretty awesome.  Spending money cannot overcome ineptitude.

 

Yes, the Bandits...and Amerks, and most importantly, the Bills.  So much for the silly "lightning in a bottle once" claim just because the Sabres (when you've always thought the NHL is a joke, but now all of a sudden it's important) have been struggling to win.   But not for a lack of effort or bad faith on the part of Terry.

 

And obviously the fans want the Sabres to win.  But the most important thing is actually having a team.  Tell me what new owner will spend money on the team and keep it in Buffalo like Terry is and will, much less one who will not be inept, and I'll agree that it's worth a shot.  Failing that, they're not being sold so hope things eventually turn around (since you now seem to care about them) and enjoy the Bills.

Edited June 27, 2020 by Doc