CBennett Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, aristocrat said: As I understand it I’d you don’t own two franchises in the same city you can’t own one franchise in the city so in fact he’d have to sell the bills as well As I read it or understand now guys CAN (think as of 1997) own 2 teams in different sports.....but very FEW guys own multiple franchises in the same city I think just a few do most are owned by totally different people....so he could sell the Sabres if he wanted to and keep the bills there is no restriction that says the same owner needs to own all or both teams..I mean we KNOW that to be untrue....I mean how many owners actually DO own both teams in a town ...the only restriction is crossowenrship of SAME sports teams is a no no..There are currently six NFL team owners that have ownership interests in professional, non-NFL sports teams..These owners are (1) Stan Kroenke, (2) Paul Allen, (3) Malcolm Glazer, (4) Shahid Khan, (5) Terry Pegula, and (6) Tom Benson. Edited June 24, 2020 by CBennett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umangatan Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) why is somebody not shutting down this thread? Yet other threads with different political beliefs are shut down so quickly! Fracking has been PROVEN to destroy and obliterate the ecology of an area, not to mention the fire water they are experiencing as real sources... Edited June 24, 2020 by umang_a_desai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehfeuh57 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 didnt they just donate a bunch of money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anguskeenan Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 12 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said: JKLM owns very few assets (about 120K acres), and from what I can tell, they had only 1 rig and halted drilling in 2019 anyway. Pretty small potatoes. i don’t believe that the Pegulas are truly in the OG business anymore in any meaningful way, and so I’m not sure what the panic is over. Pegula pretty brilliantly sold out to shell at the absolute peak of the market. (And Shell has since pretty much given up on the assets they got from him, and walked away from Appalachia). If 120K acres is accurate, leases in Potter County, PA where they are operating have gone for between $300 an acre and $2000 an acre since they started there. That's 36 million to 240 million just to sign the leases. They have 116 permit filings with the PA DEP - public information searchable on the interwebs. It takes another 10 million plus to build the infrastructure, contract the rigs, the fracking crews, pipeline crews to connect to main pipelines, etc, for every well (I am generalizing that number). It's certainly approaching or exceeding a half-billion dollar investment, which one doesn't simply walk away from, even if you have stupid amounts of money. You either market it for sale as he did with the Shell and AE deals or you wait it out and hopefully you have Lessee's option to extend in the language of all of your core leases. I don't think you can say that they aren't in the oil and gas business in any meaningful way, and even if they do sell the JKLM assets, it seems like O&G is probably his first love in business and I wouldn't be surprised to hear he gets in somewhere else... Shell has publicly given up, announcing a sale in the coming months to Seneca Resources, of their remaining Appalachia assets (an arm of National Fuel). They have been making a minor divestment here of there for the last couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 2 hours ago, anguskeenan said: If 120K acres is accurate, leases in Potter County, PA where they are operating have gone for between $300 an acre and $2000 an acre since they started there. That's 36 million to 240 million just to sign the leases. They have 116 permit filings with the PA DEP - public information searchable on the interwebs. It takes another 10 million plus to build the infrastructure, contract the rigs, the fracking crews, pipeline crews to connect to main pipelines, etc, for every well (I am generalizing that number). It's certainly approaching or exceeding a half-billion dollar investment, which one doesn't simply walk away from, even if you have stupid amounts of money. You either market it for sale as he did with the Shell and AE deals or you wait it out and hopefully you have Lessee's option to extend in the language of all of your core leases. I don't think you can say that they aren't in the oil and gas business in any meaningful way, and even if they do sell the JKLM assets, it seems like O&G is probably his first love in business and I wouldn't be surprised to hear he gets in somewhere else... Shell has publicly given up, announcing a sale in the coming months to Seneca Resources, of their remaining Appalachia assets (an arm of National Fuel). They have been making a minor divestment here of there for the last couple of years. They own the land, no? Plus--don't they lease out as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anguskeenan Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: They own the land, no? Plus--don't they lease out as well? No they acquire an oil and gas lease to drill. Sometimes they buy the oil and gas rights in fee, but not all the time. If the term of the lease expires before they drill, they have to acquire a new lease (and pay a new bonus). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 21 hours ago, aristocrat said: As I understand it I’d you don’t own two franchises in the same city you can’t own one franchise in the city so in fact he’d have to sell the bills as well Absolutely not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 This is actually funny so please don’t shut this down with the silliness. Do you actually think they were doing something found not allowed in either sports league with their team of lawyers? Guys, cmon. You’re smarter than this one. Have fun. Anyone ready to talk about football again. You know that thing we love like the draft pics, franchise acquirements, anything not this! I love you’re football takes and my fault too as I’m a participant in everything not football. Please slap me if I don’t stick to football other than saying cut it out. We are Bills fans. Let’s talk about the Bills. ok, like elementary school, I’ll start. I was disappointed yesterday when NFL radio did the afc East and was meh on Zack Moss. Tha5 dude is going to hurt people. Singletary will get more years, but Moss will cause more Monday’s in the Ice tub. How, How, How, How. Love that song. Cmon you know it. A Boom, Boom, Boom, Boom, a Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang. And that is exactly what Moss will do to those Business decisions. That man belongs in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 OP, my take on what you have reported is this: Pegula liquidated East Resources to buy the Bills at a good time. He sold that part of his portfolio "high", which is usually seen as smart business. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 12 hours ago, anguskeenan said: If 120K acres is accurate, leases in Potter County, PA where they are operating have gone for between $300 an acre and $2000 an acre since they started there. That's 36 million to 240 million just to sign the leases. They have 116 permit filings with the PA DEP - public information searchable on the interwebs. It takes another 10 million plus to build the infrastructure, contract the rigs, the fracking crews, pipeline crews to connect to main pipelines, etc, for every well (I am generalizing that number). It's certainly approaching or exceeding a half-billion dollar investment, which one doesn't simply walk away from, even if you have stupid amounts of money. You either market it for sale as he did with the Shell and AE deals or you wait it out and hopefully you have Lessee's option to extend in the language of all of your core leases. I don't think you can say that they aren't in the oil and gas business in any meaningful way, and even if they do sell the JKLM assets, it seems like O&G is probably his first love in business and I wouldn't be surprised to hear he gets in somewhere else... Shell has publicly given up, announcing a sale in the coming months to Seneca Resources, of their remaining Appalachia assets (an arm of National Fuel). They have been making a minor divestment here of there for the last couple of years. Fair point. My sense though and based on a few google searches is that all he did was lease up one county to essentially keep his toe in the water and to sort of roll the dice on an untapped area. He devoted some money in drilling, but not that aggressively. And as soon as the market went down, they stopped drilling. based on the footprint of his holdings, this seems more like a play with not a lot of risk For him. Gas prices go up and he develops it a bit more. Gas stays low, and he just hangs onto leases, which I suspect are all held by shallow production. Or if they aren’t held, he lets some go or re-leases at super low prices. in the end, this new company seems almost like more of a hobby, and he will probably wait it out and flip all his leases when the market comes back. back to the original point of the thread, I think we can both agree that JKLM can go into the toilet, and it’s not going to be even a drop of water in the bucket as to the pegula’s Total wealth or financial stability as owners of the team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 4 hours ago, machine gun kelly said: This is actually funny so please don’t shut this down with the silliness. Do you actually think they were doing something found not allowed in either sports league with their team of lawyers? Guys, cmon. You’re smarter than this one. Have fun. Anyone ready to talk about football again. You know that thing we love like the draft pics, franchise acquirements, anything not this! I love you’re football takes and my fault too as I’m a participant in everything not football. Please slap me if I don’t stick to football other than saying cut it out. We are Bills fans. Let’s talk about the Bills. ok, like elementary school, I’ll start. I was disappointed yesterday when NFL radio did the afc East and was meh on Zack Moss. Tha5 dude is going to hurt people. Singletary will get more years, but Moss will cause more Monday’s in the Ice tub. How, How, How, How. Love that song. Cmon you know it. A Boom, Boom, Boom, Boom, a Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang. And that is exactly what Moss will do to those Business decisions. That man belongs in Buffalo. wtf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 14 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Absolutely not I think you’re wrong. If he sells the Sabres he has to sell the bills. But he can’t sell the bandits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 13 minutes ago, aristocrat said: I think you’re wrong. If he sells the Sabres he has to sell the bills. But he can’t sell the bandits No. Owners can own two teams in different leagues if they are in the same market. They cannot if in different markets. It’s why the Jacobs family could not own the Bills since they also own the Bruins. If Pegula sold the Sabres it has no effect on owning the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 The Sabres are most likely not being sold. Along with the actual team, the 716, Harbour Center.....all that would have to be tied into one. Nobody is going to want to spend that kind of money for a money losing venture. Not to mention that Arena is not what it used to be. The only way the Sabres sell is to someone that will move the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Terry’s passion is hockey, not football. I’d be astounded if they sold the Sabres, and even more astounded if the league would support moving a team from one of its most hockey crazed cities. The Pegulas have obviously got it wrong with pretty much every personnel move they've made with the Sabres. What I see in this move is going to a formula they found that works with the Bills. A HC that is all about process, teaming with a GM of similar mindset. We’ll see if it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: No. Owners can own two teams in different leagues if they are in the same market. They cannot if in different markets. It’s why the Jacobs family could not own the Bills since they also own the Bruins. If Pegula sold the Sabres it has no effect on owning the Bills. You ever heard of something called a joke ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 37 minutes ago, aristocrat said: You ever heard of something called a joke ? My bad then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 It’s hard to decipher jokes in text form unless they start with Knock Knock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 3 hours ago, aristocrat said: You ever heard of something called a joke ? I have but thought a joke was something funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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