Blank Stare Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said: Do you practice the same? Do you listen to those who might actually agree with race issues but also have a strong affirmation for for the military and their beliefs? This is absolutely a fair question to ask. Whether it’s genuine or not, I appreciate you asking it. The short answer is, no, I have not done enough. No one has. And that has to change. Im man enough to admit it and I’m committed to addressing my failures. With respect to how you demonstrate your patriotism, I’ve got no problem with you (or anyone else) feeling compelled to honor the great men and women of our military by standing for the flag/anthem. But the flag represents an ideal. One that quite frankly, we’ve never fully achieved. Certainly, not for people of color. Anyone who is still having the kneel or stand for the flag conversation, or is upset by anyone choosing to do the opposite of what they choose to do, is completely missing the point. And I’m sorry, but that completely baffles me because people have to try really hard not to get it. Harder than they would have to try than if they just accepted the reality of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessYaDigg Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: There is not going to be a perfect solution so long as attitudes are so polarized. Bingo! There is no such thing in this world to where you can please everyone at the same time. That just doesn't exist and it never will unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 On 6/14/2020 at 3:30 AM, Doc Brown said: There's nothing more American than allowing players to kneel during the national anthem. "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." A smart move for the NFL after the National Anthem would be to ask everybody in the stadium (including the players) to rise and have 15 seconds of silence to honor the brave men and women in the military to honor those who are serving/have served or died defending this country. My only question is, what does the US military have anything to do with football? Should we likewise have a moment of silence before movies start at the movie theatre? This is the part I've never understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marky Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, metzelaars_lives said: My only question is, what does the US military have anything to do with football? Should we likewise have a moment of silence before movies start at the movie theatre? This is the part I've never understood. The NFL owners made the US military pay them millions of dollars for a "Salute to Service" in an effort to increase recruiting. Just to clarify, the soldiers, marines, sailors, airmen, ... pay them. Money removed from military healthcare and pensions to give to billionaires, on top of cities paying for their stadium. Edited June 15, 2020 by beavis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 4 hours ago, JetsFan20 said: A lot of these cops are pawns in all this. I blame the municipalities and department leadership whom view good police work as number of arrests/citations issued. Unlike housing/social programs municipalities make some money back off cops. Take the situation in GA for example. That kid didn’t need to be arrested. Leave the car in the parking lot and tell him to find his way home. Cops are not pawns when they use what is clearly unjustified deadly force. All police departments have guidelines whether they are followed or not. Nobody ordered Chauvin to kneel on anybody's neck for almost 9 minutes. That doesn't exempt the Minneapolis PD from culpability. Chauvin had 18 significant complaints of using excessive force in his 19 years on the force. 3 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: This isn't another George Floyd killing. That was homicide, murder, or whatever they want to call it. That was clear. The incident in Atlanta was an entirely different situation. Did they have to shoot him? Perhaps no. Did he have to engage in a physical confrontation with the police? Well no to that too. So maybe, just maybe we need to stop making excuses for bad behavior. A balanced view would be looking at both parties and assigning some shared responsibility for the outcome. But right now everybody is automatically inclined to just place 100% of the responsibility on the cops. They didn't stop this guy to hassle him because of his race. They were called to the scene to check on some guy that fell asleep in the drive thru line of a Wendy's and was found to be driving drunk. And what did the crowd that gathered do in response? Well burn down the Wendy's. Simply brilliant. Brooks was shot in the back twice as he was running away. He didn't have a lethal weapon only a tazer he took from one of the cops. They had his info and his car so they could have picked him up any time. They didn't have to shoot him. 1 hour ago, BillsFan17 said: Have people truly changed their minds? Or are they following the herd in order to not be canceled or publicly shamed (e.g. Drew Brees) What exactly do you mean "not be canceled"? Another poster upthread mentioned a "cancel culture". Is this another special code word from some pundit? 43 minutes ago, Putin said: If you you’re self would stop yapping for 2 minutes and actually listen , then you would know that NOBODY is disputing that there is legitimate race problem in this country, BUT please continue on yapping and deflecting from a legitimate discussion that people are having Donald J. Trump and his top economic advisor Larry Kudlow have both disputed it publicly which, of course, gives legitimacy to those who wish to argue that calls for racial justice are unjustified. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, SoTier said: Cops are not pawns when they use what is clearly unjustified deadly force. All police departments have guidelines whether they are followed or not. Nobody ordered Chauvin to kneel on anybody's neck for almost 9 minutes. That doesn't exempt the Minneapolis PD from culpability. Chauvin had 18 significant complaints of using excessive force in his 19 years on the force. Brooks was shot in the back twice as he was running away. He didn't have a lethal weapon only a tazer he took from one of the cops. They had his info and his car so they could have picked him up any time. They didn't have to shoot him. What exactly do you mean "not be canceled"? Another poster upthread mentioned a "cancel culture". Is this another special code word from some pundit? Donald J. Trump and his top economic advisor Larry Kudlow have both disputed it publicly which, of course, gives legitimacy to those who wish to argue that calls for racial justice are unjustified. A code word for some pundit? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 19 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: A code word for some pundit? What? https://www.dictionary.com/browse/pundit pundit [ puhn-dit ]SHOW IPA SEE SYNONYMS FOR pundit ON THESAURUS.COM noun a learned person, expert, or authority. a person who makes comments or judgments, especially in an authoritative manner; critic or commentator. pandit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 39 minutes ago, SoTier said: Brooks was shot in the back twice as he was running away. He didn't have a lethal weapon only a tazer he took from one of the cops. They had his info and his car so they could have picked him up any time. They didn't have to shoot him. If he doesn't resist arrest, assault 2 cops, take a police issued weapon (regardless if lethal or non lethal), turn and fire said weapon at the officer, none of this happens. Percieved threat is a split second decision with serious ramifications. And it's always easy to Monday Morning Quarterback any use of force. But, with any use of force review, the people watching the video don't get to feel the subject tensing up, preparing for the fight or flight response. This man appeared compliant and was not treated improperly. He took it to another place by resisting and assaulting the cops. Again, none of this happens if he doesn't resist....... The determination of whether or not he should have been shot falls directly on the officer that fired his weapon. He's got to live with the decision and the fallout from it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickleyjones Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, metzelaars_lives said: My only question is, what does the US military have anything to do with football? Should we likewise have a moment of silence before movies start at the movie theatre? This is the part I've never understood. It is a holdover of the bread and circuses from Roman times. They did it the same way with gladiators, trumpets and timpanis. Entertainment brought to you by your favourite dear leaders, with music for brainwashus maximus. Edited June 15, 2020 by dickleyjones 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 22 hours ago, Putin said: So you’re saying I could be showed the door and can take my white privilege with me ? What is this world coming too ? Scary times that’s for sure !!! I had no idea how victimized you were. Best if you just hole up in your safe space where you won’t have to watch those mean people you’ll never meet kneel for 90 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 2 hours ago, metzelaars_lives said: My only question is, what does the US military have anything to do with football? Should we likewise have a moment of silence before movies start at the movie theatre? This is the part I've never understood. It’s simple. There is no military draft anymore. The military has to advertise to get recruits, and football games are a ripe audience filled with the ideal demographic (young, physically fit men). Nothing more than that. It’s not complicated and I have no problem with it. Do you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakrider Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 I just think the country, which is represented by the US flag has been and overwhelming positive force for income and racial inequality over time and its misguided to throw that away. Most people would like to see things continually improved but if the answer is to basically not support the flag, or the nat'l anthem and basically the country as a whole then it will just cause the rift to become larger over time. Eventually they'll call anyone who actively supports the flag as racists, heck they already do. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, dakrider said: I just think the country, which is represented by the US flag has been and overwhelming positive force for income and racial inequality over time and its misguided to throw that away. Most people would like to see things continually improved but if the answer is to basically not support the flag, or the nat'l anthem and basically the country as a whole then it will just cause the rift to become larger over time. Eventually they'll call anyone who actively supports the flag as racists, heck they already do. Who does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 2 hours ago, metzelaars_lives said: My only question is, what does the US military have anything to do with football? Should we likewise have a moment of silence before movies start at the movie theatre? This is the part I've never understood. The government gave them money for recruitment purposes. At least they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Victory Formation said: I think each case is different. Chauvin was clearly in the wrong by the way he treated George Floyd. However, the young man that was killed at Wendy’s kind of had it coming to him. You don’t resist arrest, grab an officer’s taser, run away from him, turn around and try to tase him without getting shot. I will also say that the older fellow that was knocked down in Buffalo was barely touched. It seemed like the cops barely even laid a finger on him. I’m against racism and police brutality but when you lump in cases that are questionable like that it cheapens the movement. Brooks was shot in the back twice while he was running away. There is no way that there's an excuse for that. The officer could have just let him run away and collected him later as they had his personal information and his car. It's attitudes like yours which continually excuse the use of excessive -- including deadly -- force by police officers against citizens in general but black citizens in particular that perpetuates unnecessary police violence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 17 minutes ago, SoTier said: Brooks was shot in the back twice while he was running away. There is no way that there's an excuse for that. The officer could have just let him run away and collected him later as they had his personal information and his car. It's attitudes like yours which continually excuse the use of excessive -- including deadly -- force by police officers against citizens in general but black citizens in particular that perpetuates unnecessary police violence. Had they let him go he might've been found passed out in a Taco Bell or a McDonalds drive-thru! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 hour ago, dakrider said: I just think the country, which is represented by the US flag has been and overwhelming positive force for income and racial inequality over time and its misguided to throw that away. Most people would like to see things continually improved but if the answer is to basically not support the flag, or the nat'l anthem and basically the country as a whole then it will just cause the rift to become larger over time. Eventually they'll call anyone who actively supports the flag as racists, heck they already do. Just for reference, about 16% of Americans live under the poverty line and about 9% of Canadians. We do a poor job of economic equality in our continent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, SoTier said: Cops are not pawns when they use what is clearly unjustified deadly force. All police departments have guidelines whether they are followed or not. Nobody ordered Chauvin to kneel on anybody's neck for almost 9 minutes. That doesn't exempt the Minneapolis PD from culpability. Chauvin had 18 significant complaints of using excessive force in his 19 years on the force. Brooks was shot in the back twice as he was running away. He didn't have a lethal weapon only a tazer he took from one of the cops. They had his info and his car so they could have picked him up any time. They didn't have to shoot him. What exactly do you mean "not be canceled"? Another poster upthread mentioned a "cancel culture". Is this another special code word from some pundit? Donald J. Trump and his top economic advisor Larry Kudlow have both disputed it publicly which, of course, gives legitimacy to those who wish to argue that calls for racial justice are unjustified. The cop murdered the kid. But this analysis is not valid. Maybe the average number of complaints in the MPD is 10 per officer per year. Edited June 15, 2020 by Irv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 I’m indifferent on whether people kneel or not...I look at it more from a legal standpoint instead of an emotional one- “private vs public”... Essentially, if the protesting is on private property and the NFL is ok with it while the players are representing the league, then so be it... If the league is not ok with it and doesn’t want to allow it, that is their prerogative as well... How people feel about the issue, personally, seems irrelevant imho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, SoTier said: Brooks was shot in the back twice as he was running away. He didn't have a lethal weapon only a tazer he took from one of the cops. They had his info and his car so they could have picked him up any time. They didn't have to shoot him. I actually agree with this. I'm not going to hold this guy up as a martyr or assume their was a racial element, nor am I going to rush to judge the cop, who in all likelihood panicked in a dangerous situation caused entirely by the actions of Brooks. But it doesn't appear to me, based on what I've read, that shooting him was necessary. Quote What exactly do you mean "not be canceled"? Another poster upthread mentioned a "cancel culture". Is this another special code word from some pundit? "Cancel culture" refers to the trend where one is banished due to having made (or being perceived as having made) a politically incorrect statement, or otherwise deemed to hold politically incorrect views. This most commonly refers to banishment from all or most social media sites and/or demonetization from YouTube which effectively ends the career of one who has spent years building their brand/following. It also refers to one's removal from his chosen profession, and often blackballed from that profession, for such perceived transgressions. Some notable figures who have been cancelled include Gavin McInnis, Milo Yiannopoulos, Pamela Geller, Alex Jones, Carl Benjamin, Owen Benjamin, and Jacob Wohl. There are countless others. A recent example is Grant Napear was fired from his job, after 32 years as the TV voice of the Sacramento Kings, for Tweeting "All Lives Matter." Cancel culture isn't reserved to the famous. Justine Sacco, a 30 year old PR exec, lost her job and was crucified throughout the media for Tweeting a bad joke. In short, "cancel culture" refers to a cultural phenomenon by which those who violate the tenets of political correctness are made to be silenced. Quote Donald J. Trump and his top economic advisor Larry Kudlow have both disputed it publicly which, of course, gives legitimacy to those who wish to argue that calls for racial justice are unjustified. This is where it gets a little dicey, because the terms are not clearly defined. The numbers don't really support the notion that police disproportionately shoot black suspects. In 2019, people shot and killed by police while unarmed (which doesn't necessarily mean unjustified) were as follows: White: 19 Black: 9 Hispanic: 6 Other: 4 Unknown: 3 - Washington Post For every 10,000 black people arrested for violent crime, 3 are killed For every 10,000 white people arrested for violent crime, 4 are killed The numbers don't really support the narrative. A more nuanced point was raised in a now closed thread dealing with racial disparities in policing that don't escalate to fatalities. Those issues, as well as issues about police practices generally, are certainly open to debate, but the numbers seriously call into question whether there is truly pervasive racial bias in policing. Edited June 15, 2020 by Rob's House 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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