Bill O'Brien will kneel...JJ Watt says kneeling is no disrespect to the flag or military

[Capco]

2 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

He asked "why".

 

You answered "rampant ignorance".

 

 

And in your mind, that means I said all people need to vote one way because otherwise they are just ignorant?

 

36 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I just can't wrap my incapable and ignorant mind why you proclaimed anyone who voted in a way different from you as ignorant.  Please please help.

 

That's bad comprehension on your part.  Admit it and move on.  

[nucci]

1 minute ago, Putin said:

I guess will find out soon enough ..

Games will be played and networks will pay the fees

[BillsFan17]

18 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Why is it awful?

 

You can consume whatever you want but If you can’t see the difference between a star athlete and a guy at Jiffy Lube I don’t know what to tell you.

Because they are star athletes you prop them up, thats your world view. To me they are entertainers. 

 

You couldn't name the top five utmost renowned world scientists, doctors, educators, etc... but you can tell me the top five QBs are in the NFL.

 

I know the difference between occupations and professions, you on the other hand choose to glorify one. That in no way makes them more a value based source of information.

 

I've met all walks of life with all sorts of occupations with very high intellect and very profound world views, who didn't have massive wealth, didn't have a platform, didnt have an audience, and i didnt immediately classify them as less important than athletes.

 

So, yeah, clearly you have nothing left to say to me.

Edited June 14, 2020 by BillsFan17

[Putin]

1 minute ago, nucci said:

Games will be played and networks will pay the fees

Not if the ratings are low 

[BillsFan17]

20 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Did you not read the post? I apologize if it was too long. But, don't hold your breath for me to post stats. Anyone can find them. Google "stats for systemic racism," and I'll bet plenty will come up.

No, you said it was easy. I have done my research, id love to see yours. Telling me its so simple I should do it either means you can't do it your self, or there aren't any and it easier to deflect.

[Ecmic82]

8 minutes ago, nucci said:

You're comparing your job to that of a professional athlete? Players kneeling are not shutting down the rig or putting a stop to games being played. The players bosses are still making billions of dollars even if they kneel.

LOL I know right?

 

I mean, If Josh Allen begins to protest in support of Black Lives Matter DURING LIVE GAME ACTION, I'll be the FIRST to call for his benching or removing him from the team.

 

But people really want to act like completely abdicating one's responsibility to their employer is analogous to an athlete taking a knee during the national anthem? Come on.

[BillsFan17]

23 minutes ago, TheProcess said:

The true definition of racism - not the one white people cling to in Merriam Webster - is when prejudice meets power. People of color can absolutely be prejudiced, but name one time in US history they’ve ever held a position of power over the white majority. I’ll wait...

So, you get to change definitions of words to suit your self. 

 

You dont have to wait long to see Obama was the ruler of the free world. Why was that supposed to be a mic drop? Did you blatantly pass over a black president for a reason?

[4merper4mer]

1 minute ago, Capco said:

 

And in your mind, that means I said all people need to vote one way because otherwise they are just ignorant?

 

 

That's bad comprehension on your part.  Admit it and move on.  

You listed one reason:

 

Rampant ignorance.  Perhaps you should have said "rampant ignorance is the largest reason but there might be others which are valid". Admit it and move on.

 

Of course that would require you thinking there are valid reasons to vote no.  Do you?

 

 

[Capco]

10 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

You listed one reason:

 

Rampant ignorance.  Perhaps you should have said "rampant ignorance is the largest reason but there might be others which are valid". Admit it and move on.

 

Of course that would require you thinking there are valid reasons to vote no.  Do you?

 

I believe that rampant ignorance is the largest reason people vote No but there are others which might be valid.  I do not condone or support groupthink.  I believe in freedom of expression within reason.  

 

I hope that clears things up.  

 

And sorry for the sass...

Edited June 14, 2020 by Capco

[Matt_In_NH]

If you have to constantly explain why it’s not disrespectful and means something else maybe you are doing it wrong and you should find another way to protest.   
 

protesters see it as protesting.  Others see it as disrespectful.   They are both right but will never get on the same page and see it eye to eye.   

Edited June 14, 2020 by mattynh

[4merper4mer]

Just now, Capco said:

 

Clearly I have to be extra careful with my words around you.  In the future I'll make it a point to be crystal clear when we communicate.  

 

I believe that rampant ignorance is the largest reason people vote No but there are others which might be valid.  I do not condone or support groupthink.  I believe in freedom of expression within reason.  

 

I hope that clears things up.  

The thumbs up I gave does not apply to your sarcastic first paragraph.

[Kirby Jackson]

36 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

Because they are star athletes you prop them up, thats your world view. To me they are entertainers. 

 

You couldn't name the top five utmost renowned world scientists, doctors, educators, etc... but you can tell me the top five QBs are in the NFL.

 

I know the difference between occupations and professions, you on the other hand choose to glorify one. That in no way makes them more a value based source of information.

 

I've met all walks of life with all sorts of occupations with very high intellect and very profound world views, who didn't have massive wealth, didn't have a platform, didnt have an audience, and i didnt immediately classify them as less important than athletes.

 

So, yeah, clearly you have nothing left to say to me.

Prop them up? I worked in sports and know many, many, many pro athletes. Some I like; some I don’t. I probably look up to athletes less than just about anyone here. At the same time, I understand that their platform is enormous (as you said above). The fact that you can name a zillion athletes and a couple of scientists is what makes them different. You answered your own question. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[Capco]

8 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

The thumbs up I gave does not apply to your sarcastic first paragraph.

 

I was literally just thinking that it was in bad taste.  I removed it.  

 

It has nothing to do with you.  It's difficult to communicate explicitly through text.  That's not any one person's fault.  It's just a fact of textual comms.  The clearer I am, the clearer you (as in the general you) will understand me.  

 

I think this also applies to your groupthink comment as well, though.  

Edited June 14, 2020 by Capco

[Don Otreply]

33 minutes ago, Heavy Kevi said:

 

Again I really agree with you on most points, but let me put forth myself as an example because I'm curious to see what you think about it.

 

I own a small bbq restaurant and bar in Geneva NY. I haven't "made it" by any means and like many restaurants right now we are fighting for our lives. I don't mean to sound like I am in a dire situation, I am hopeful when we open back up (this Tuesday), we will be busy and at least keep the books in the black long enough for everything to get back to some semblance of normal.

 

So, say one of my employees wants to make a radical political stands at work. They are not doing it in a way that stops them from doing their job, but thanks to the hundreds of people that come through each day, they get decent exposure of their radical beliefs (whatever they may be), and "furthers the cause". Sounds ok right? They aren't interrupting their work, after all.

 

Consider this- that political stands has a chance to (however severely) negatively effect my business. Maybe I lose some business, maybe because covid has already weakened our stance, my business doesn't survive (again no matter how likely). The employee really has nothing at stake other than a chance of losing their job, where I have the chance of losing everything. So basically allowing my employees to make political stands at work could cause me to lose everything.

 

I only pose this because the "business" many people speak of in a negative light are huge corporations, but in actuality more Americans are employed by small businesses. I'm a regular person that grew up poor, in an area of poor socioeconomic status- certainly not some elite, and I know I'm not the only business owner that, despite popular belief, doesn't have a huge bank account or nice things. Truth be told, my wait staff makes more money than me every single day. I don't resent that, I'm happy to provide viable jobs, but I don't think any business should ever be on the line because of political beliefs held by someone it gainfully employs.

It is a serious conundrum to be sure, I would be of the opinion that if an employee is doing harm to their co- workers well being or their employer who is in turn doing no harm to others in their business dealings then that hypothetical person is the problem, and should be let go, but on the other hand if said person does their protesting away from work, and even if their employer dislikes it,  that person should not be punished for exercising their rights, again if they do their job well. Having been the manager of a small business for many years I understand your point. 
 

You are correct that it is the large corporations that are the ones most likely to abuse others through their business dealings, this is where greed and power abuses show there ugly heads most frequently. That is where regulation of capitalism is most appropriate and needed.  
 

I have no problem with folk creating and having wealth, I do however have a problem with those individuals or entities that allow greed and power lust to purposefully restrict others from that opportunity.
 

Being a good neighbor as an individual or business is a necessity if one holds having a great society as a priority, which I do. I truly understand that perfect is not gonna happen, but doing ones best to not be part of the problem is alway desirable. 
 

[muppy]

6 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I had an interesting conversation with a successful African-American business person I know about the current state of race relations and one topic was kneeling before the flag.   Their views were a lot different from the dominant narrative being played out almost everywhere.  And while they would hesitate to say these things publicly for fear of being attacked their insights opened my mind to viewing things from a lot of different angles.  Its goes like:

 

"From the perspective of a minority person I think blaming white racism for all the problems faced by African-American people and communities is blacks saying the white man has the power to decide our fate. And the only way things are going to get better for us is if white people become less racist and treat us better.  And white people joining in kneeling isn't so much joining us in the fight but rather them giving us their permission to try to improve our conditions.  The entire concept ignores the principles of free will & control of your own destiny and replaces that with a mindset of dependence. Other minorities that prosper in America don't have this mindset. Think about that?"

 

 

other minorities were't founded upon slavery as was the case with Blacks in the US and the systemic implications within both black and White society that have lingered. Not meaning to derail the conversation at hand and I read with interest the rest of what you wrote because I care what different voices have to say and why. Thank you for this.

[Blank Stare]

8 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

So, you get to change definitions of words to suit your self. 

 

You dont have to wait long to see Obama was the ruler of the free world. Why was that supposed to be a mic drop? Did you blatantly pass over a black president for a reason?

Gee, thanks for throwing a bone. That’s mighty white of ya! It’s sad you think one black president makes up for 400 years of oppression. One who continues to be undermined by his successor and droves of white people to this day. Rolling back any progress he was able to make. In fact, it’s another example of what happens whenever black folks taste a little success in this country. And you said I had no idea if I was talking to someone white, Black, Hispanic, or Asian. ??

 

Oh, and by the way, it’s not just me who feels the Merriam Webster definition needs a little updating. I know it’s not Fox News like you’re used to but here you go if you care to read it:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/09/us/dictionary-racism-definition-update-trnd/index.html

 

(now that’s a mic drop ?)

[Rockinon]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yet public support for that cause has gone way up since the protests started.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/502267-support-for-black-lives-matter-doubles-since-2016-poll

 

BLM has a big following because people assume the name is exactly what it stands for. It doesn't. It is not a movement. It is a corporation that collects money for the democrat party. Go ahead and make a donation. You are directed to ActBlue. This is another corporation, a superpac, that takes in huge money for the democrat party. Everyone listed on their board of directors is white. No one knows who heads BLM themselves. That is kept secret. But if you want to donate to that cause go for it. The only thing you'll be doing is sending money to the democrat political party.  None of which has anything to do with actual black lives.

[Don Otreply]

1 minute ago, Rockinon said:

BLM has a big following because people assume the name is exactly what it stands for. It doesn't. It is not a movement. It is a corporation that collects money for the democrat party. Go ahead and make a donation. You are directed to ActBlue. This is another corporation, a superpac, that takes in huge money for the democrat party. Everyone listed on their board of directors is white. No one knows who heads BLM themselves. That is kept secret. But if you want to donate to that cause go for it. The only thing you'll be doing is sending money to the democrat political party.  None of which has anything to do with actual black lives.

So are you saying that makes it okay to continue the blatant injustice and racism?  Or is it all just fake news in your eyes, What truly is your point? Asking for a friend...

[BillsFan17]

13 minutes ago, TheProcess said:

Gee, thanks for throwing a bone. That’s mighty white of ya! It’s sad you think one black president makes up for 400 years of oppression. One who continues to be undermined by his successor and droves of white people to this day. Rolling back any progress he was able to make. In fact, it’s another example of what happens whenever black folks taste a little success in this country. And you said I had no idea if I was talking to someone white, Black, Hispanic, or Asian. ??

 

Oh, and by the way, it’s not just me who feels the Merriam Webster definition needs a little updating. I know it’s not Fox News like you’re used to but here you go if you care to read it:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/09/us/dictionary-racism-definition-update-trnd/index.html

 

(now that’s a mic drop ?)

You keep assuming I'm white, does that give you control over the conversation?

27 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Prop them up? I worked in sports and know many, many, many pro athletes. Some I like; some I don’t. I probably look up to athletes less than just about anyone here. At the same time, I understand that their platform is enormous (as you said above). The fact that you can name a zillion athletes and a couple of scientists is what makes them different. You answered your own question. 

who said I came name a zillion athletes and only a few scientists? How is that answering my own question?

 

So far today, I've watched a bunch of people argue with them selves.

 

Some seem to want to grandstand, virtue signal, or straight up just seem to enjoy confrontation.

Edited June 14, 2020 by BillsFan17

[muppy]

4 hours ago, mannc said:

Anyone who says they’re going to kneel now, after doing and saying nothing for three years to support Kaepernick, should be hooted off the stage.

I respectfully disagree.  If mainstream Americans didn't fully receive or acknowledge Colin Kaepernick IMO doesn't mean they were against his message perse. Maybe his way of delivering the message was what a lot of people misunderstood and didn't get.  He was a controversial messenger at the time and his motives questioned. Not so much anymore. I don't think its ever too late to be educated and as such admit you were wrong to not have "gotten it" sooner.