Franchise QB's

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, VirginiaMike said:

I believe that the Bills have found their franchise QB for the next 10 years in Josh Allen. This year should provide either the verification of that or the fallacy.  That made start to think about teams that have been lucky enough (or are great planners) that have had back-to-back franchise QBs.  Makes me jealous thinking about it.  The Bills have not had a pair. 

Here's my list (it's a short one) of teams with back-to-back franchise QBs:

1. Green Bay Packers - Farve and then Rogers
2. SF 49ers - Montana and then Young
3. Indianapolis Colts - Manning and then Luck

I can't come up with any other pairs that come close to these three.  Thoughts?

 

 

Packers just did it again.

 

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

Good catch Ralph as Alex Smith doesn’t get the credit he deserves.  He was on a horrible SF team, but seemed to hit his rhythm in KC, and I doubt anyone is not thinking Mahomes is a franchise guy.

 

"Horrible SF team"??  They went 13-3 and to the NFCC and lost in OT with a guy named Alex Smith at QB.  Same team (11-4-1) barely lost the next year's SB the with Kaepernick and Smith.   That's a hot take, sir...

 

Anyway, I wouldn't count KC trading for an 8 year vet who they got rid of as soon as they could in favor of Mahomes as "finding a franchise QB".  Did the Skins just "find him" too?

[Talley56]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

I HATE,HATE,HATE to throw the Cheatriots any props but Bledsoe and Brady should fit your description.

Yeah, particularly if we are going to include Luck as he never made a SB while Bledsoe.

 

Also, would Bob Griese-Dan Marino be close enough to be added to this list? 

[Rubes]

So...how are we defining the term "franchise QB" anyway?

 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

     Still not buying LJ. Watching him suck throwing outside the hash marks in the Titan’s game , I feel like last year was his flash in the pan year. Not just because of him, either. It seemed like a Magic year for the Ravens which I’m not sure they repeat. 

Completely agree.  Bum only had 500 total yards.  Why didn’t that bum win the MVP as a rookie?  Why couldn’t that bum win the Heisman as a freshman?  Polian was right.  He should switch positions.

2 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Fair points on Lamar as it is probably too early to tell, but if they keep constructing a team around his skills, he has a chance.  Ravens fans would shoot me, but I’ll take Allen over Lamar as I sincerely believe Allen eventually has a higher ceiling.  If Lamar doesn’t improve as a passer, he can only survive as a running QB for so long as lol at Cam.  He sparked quite a bit last year, so like Allen he needs to take a big step this year.

Why does Allen have a higher ceiling? Honestly.  I’m not even knocking Allen here but I feel like this board is so quick to put Jackson down.  He won a MVP at 23.  He won a Heisman trophy.  He had been a better passer on every level than Allen and against harder competition.  His best receiverS were a rookie who missed a bunch of games and Willie Snead. 
 

it’s just funny that folks act like it’s a such given that Allen can improve but not the MVP, who has been better than Allen every single year they have played football. 
 

And isn’t Allen a running qb?

Edited June 13, 2020 by C.Biscuit97

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Good catch Ralph as Alex Smith doesn’t get the credit he deserves.  He was on a horrible SF team, but seemed to hit his rhythm in KC, and I doubt anyone is not thinking Mahomes is a franchise guy.

Smith has career highs of 26, 23, and 20 tds.  He’s a good game manager but the definition of completely replaceable.  

[Buffalo Boy]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Completely agree.  Bum only had 500 total yards.  Why didn’t that bum win the MVP as a rookie?  Why couldn’t that bum win the Heisman as a freshman?  Polian was right.  He should switch positions.

?

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

?

Interesting you choose Kramer when discussing Lamar. ??

 

and I’m going to let you in on a secret. I LOVE Heisman winning, MVP qbs!!!

[Putin]

26 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Interesting you choose Kramer when discussing Lamar. ??

 

and I’m going to let you in on a secret. I LOVE Heisman winning, MVP qbs!!!

Yes maybe he can become the next RG 3 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Putin

[Shaw66]

Not exactly back to back and not all exactly franchise guys, but Staubach, Aikman, Romo, and Prescott is an impressive run. 

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, Rubes said:

So...how are we defining the term "franchise QB" anyway?

 

My definition is start a minimum of 50 games in 5 seasons for the same squad 

[Kirby Jackson]

4 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

     Still not buying LJ. Watching him suck throwing outside the hash marks in the Titan’s game , I feel like last year was his flash in the pan year. Not just because of him, either. It seemed like a Magic year for the Ravens which I’m not sure they repeat. 

You’re buying Bledsoe but not Lamar? Odd

[Maybe Someday]

How aboit the Rams going from Warner to Bulger? 

[Billl]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Packers just did it again.

 

 

"Horrible SF team"??  They went 13-3 and to the NFCC and lost in OT with a guy named Alex Smith at QB.  Same team (11-4-1) barely lost the next year's SB the with Kaepernick and Smith.   That's a hot take, sir...

 

Anyway, I wouldn't count KC trading for an 8 year vet who they got rid of as soon as they could in favor of Mahomes as "finding a franchise QB".  Did the Skins just "find him" too?

50-26, 3 pro bowls, and 4 division titles in 5 seasons?  That’s a franchise guy for the Chiefs.  With SF, he was 38-36 with no pro bowls in 8 seasons.  He was never a franchise QB for them.

[Billl]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Completely agree.  Bum only had 500 total yards.  Why didn’t that bum win the MVP as a rookie?  Why couldn’t that bum win the Heisman as a freshman?  Polian was right.  He should switch positions.

Why does Allen have a higher ceiling? Honestly.  I’m not even knocking Allen here but I feel like this board is so quick to put Jackson down.  He won a MVP at 23.  He won a Heisman trophy.  He had been a better passer on every level than Allen and against harder competition.  His best receiverS were a rookie who missed a bunch of games and Willie Snead. 
 

it’s just funny that folks act like it’s a such given that Allen can improve but not the MVP, who has been better than Allen every single year they have played football. 
 

And isn’t Allen a running qb?

I don’t understand the “higher ceiling” trope with Allen.  He’s a good athlete at the QB position, but he’s not an elite athlete compared to guys like Newton, Jackson, Mahomes, Wilson, Watson, or Murray.  He’s in the next tier with guys like Tannehill (played WR in college), Lock (high D-1 caliber basketball player), and Prescott.  
 

I’d probably put him at the top of that second group, but there’s a pretty clear step down after freakish measurable guys like Newton, Jackson, and Watson and the guys who could have played in the MLB like Mahomes, Wilson, and Murray.

[Chandler#81]

2 hours ago, Rubes said:

So...how are we defining the term "franchise QB" anyway?

 

Good question.

 

Fergy was replaced by Vince Ferragamo (Quit Laughing!?) All Vincent did was lead his previous team from the trash heap to a home Super Bowl and nearly held off the Team of the Decade to win!

 

So, was Fergy a “franchise QB”??

[Buffalo Boy]

51 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You’re buying Bledsoe but not Lamar? Odd

Bledsoe has a much stronger arm than LJ. 
One of the reasons I’m high on Josh. 

When LJ gets to a Super Bowl we can talk.
Love me some cannon armed, prototypical pocket passing QBs.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You’re buying Bledsoe but not Lamar? Odd

Bledsoe did it for a lot of years at a near HOF level.   Lamar has done it for one. 

 

Lamar is going to be tested increasingly in the coming couple of seasons, as teams game plan for him and get used to him.   Also, defenses will adjust because there's Lamar and Kyler and to a lesser extent Mayfield and probably a few more.  End of the day, you have to be a superior leader (which Lamar may be), a superior thrower, and a superior student of the game.   Lamar hasn't shown he's there yet.  

[Billl]

42 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Bledsoe has a much stronger arm than LJ. 
One of the reasons I’m high on Josh. 

When LJ gets to a Super Bowl we can talk.
Love me some cannon armed, prototypical pocket passing QBs.

 

10 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Bledsoe did it for a lot of years at a near HOF level.   Lamar has done it for one. 

 

Lamar is going to be tested increasingly in the coming couple of seasons, as teams game plan for him and get used to him.   Also, defenses will adjust because there's Lamar and Kyler and to a lesser extent Mayfield and probably a few more.  End of the day, you have to be a superior leader (which Lamar may be), a superior thrower, and a superior student of the game.   Lamar hasn't shown he's there yet.  

Lamar is 19-3 as a starter with 2 of those losses being against the Mahomes and the Chiefs...and he’s 22.  He’s already far superior to Bledsoe’ best.

[Buffalo Boy]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

 

Lamar is 19-3 as a starter with 2 of those losses being against the Mahomes and the Chiefs...and he’s 22.  He’s already far superior to Bledsoe’ best.

flash in the pan

 

phrase of flash

 

1. a thing or person whose sudden but brief success is not repeated or repeatable.
    

       Maybe he goes on to have an amazing career. But it will take ten years minimum before we know.

   Bledsoe didn’t miss a ton of games.... running around like a chicken with its head cut off is not a recipe for a long NFL career.
    

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

I don’t understand the “higher ceiling” trope with Allen.  He’s a good athlete at the QB position, but he’s not an elite athlete compared to guys like Newton, Jackson, Mahomes, Wilson, Watson, or Murray.  He’s in the next tier with guys like Tannehill (played WR in college), Lock (high D-1 caliber basketball player), and Prescott.  
 

I’d probably put him at the top of that second group, but there’s a pretty clear step down after freakish measurable guys like Newton, Jackson, and Watson and the guys who could have played in the MLB like Mahomes, Wilson, and Murray.

I disagree Allen is absolutely in that top tier athlete category. He’s actually a superior athlete to Watson, Mahomes and Wilson. If you look at the next gen stats he was second to only Lamar in top end speed (at least I think). He was at like 21 MPH. Allen was also a 3 sport star in high school. He may not be the QB that those others are yet but he absolutely is in the elite athlete tier. This chart is a touch dated but he’s as big and fast as Cam: