Thurman#1 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, billsfan89 said: Faneca was an absolute beast, he was an All-Pro First Team player 6 times and a Second team All-Pro twice. He was a key reason why the Steelers had one of the best rushing attacks year in and year out in the early to mid-2000's. He also was a Pro-Bowl player from 2001-2009. Even in his two years with the Jets he was still a dominant player and one of the reasons they had a good rushing attack those seasons. I think Faneca being arguably the second best guard of the decade behind Hutchinson puts him in the HOF for me. Ruben Brown on the other hand I think falls into the category of a guy who isn't HOF worthy (although WOF worthy for sure in my book.) Ruben Brown was never a first team All-Pro his two career accolades are 4 Second Team All-Pro selections (1998-2000 and 2002) and a gaudy 9 Pro-Bowl selections(1996-2003 and in 2006) at a time when the Pro-Bowl still somewhat relevant as a bonafide. So while Brown was always near the best at his position for a long period of time I never considered him to be among the best 2-3 guards in the league at least not for a long period of time. He was a very good player for a long time and at his peak flirted with being great. Even factoring in his good run with the Bears in 2005 and 2006 where he returned to being a very good player I can't say that he cracks the HOF for me. I'd argue that you don't get to be All-Pro four years (no first team All-Pros, but still) without being one of the absolute best of your time. Top 2 - 3? Yeah, I think so, though a lot of his career. Ruben used to drive Bills fans crazy with his illegal motion penalties. Man he did that a lot. But he was an absolute road grader, physically dominant, a true beast. He incurred a lot of ire speaking up about problems at OBD, which led to his being traded. But I think he was right on target at the time. Most fans now seem to agree with this. That was a poor front office. IMO, Wall yes, Hall probably not quite. Edited June 12, 2020 by Thurman#1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 He certainly has the accolades, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 5 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: HOF worthy? ? WOF worthy? ?, probably ? Sponge worthy? Ask Ms. Benes. I wouldn't even use a sponge on McCaffrey...except when it's bath time after Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: I'd argue that you don't get to be All-Pro four years (no first team All-Pros, but still) without being one of the absolute best of your time. Top 2 - 3? Yeah, I think so, though a lot of his career. Ruben used to drive Bills fans crazy with his illegal motion penalties. Man he did that a lot. But he was an absolute road grader, physically dominant, a true beast. He incurred a lot of ire speaking up about problems at OBD, which led to his being traded. But I think he was right on target at the time. Most fans now seem to agree with this. That was a poor front office. IMO, Wall yes, Hall probably not quite. A lot of those penalties came at the absolute worst times, drive-killers and some game-losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 I always thought he was overhyped, and was voted to the Pro Bowl via reputation. He was a good player, but not transformational. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregPersons Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Why not? Guards and OL are unheralded. Ruben has the Pro Bowls and All Pro hardware to back it up, fwiw. How many better Guards have we had since Ruben, off the top of your head? OL doesn't get enough respect. He'd get my vote. He was a cornerstone of those teams. 10 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said: I always thought he was overhyped, and was voted to the Pro Bowl via reputation. He was a good player, but not transformational. Who is a transformational Guard, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 3 hours ago, GregPersons said: .Who is a transformational Guard, though? Optimus Prime? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregPersons Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Just now, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: Optimus Prime? ? Another guy the Bills passed on drafting... and he's had a pretty good career since. Not in football, but, as far as I know, there's nothing in the rule book against alien shapeshifters playing football. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Just now, GregPersons said: Another guy the Bills passed on drafting... Undoubtedly the Nix era. "Somebody nudge Buddy, he's nodded off again!" Optimus Prime would have also skirted Whaley's concerns about humans playing football. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 10 hours ago, billsfan89 said: Faneca was an absolute beast, he was an All-Pro First Team player 6 times and a Second team All-Pro twice. He was a key reason why the Steelers had one of the best rushing attacks year in and year out in the early to mid-2000's. He also was a Pro-Bowl player from 2001-2009. Even in his two years with the Jets he was still a dominant player and one of the reasons they had a good rushing attack those seasons. I think Faneca being arguably the second best guard of the decade behind Hutchinson puts him in the HOF for me. Exactly!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 10 hours ago, Rico said: Neither the HOF nor the WOF, no. Reggie McKenzie for the WOF? Hell yes. Yes on both counts. I’m with the masses that he was overrated for all the penalties and poor teams he played on. Seemed like most of the PB Selections were an empathy thing from the League. ‘Well, they sucked again, but we should put 1 player in from them...’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregPersons Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Yes on both counts. I’m with the masses that he was overrated for all the penalties and poor teams he played on. Seemed like most of the PB Selections were an empathy thing from the League. ‘Well, they sucked again, but we should put 1 player in from them...’ I'm not disagreeing necessarily that he was overrated. However I don't really know what overrated means with OL, to be honest, because OL is almost always dogged. Even when an OL is good, it's rarely acknowledged as good in the moment. Bills OL is pretty good but we focus on the bad. Just human nature maybe. So my thing is like -- who are the better interior OL, particularly at G? Center and LT get the lions share of respect and acknowledgment b/c they have the closest relationship to the QB in play, usually. I feel like we'd likely all agree that Eric Wood is deserving of WOF, at least. So why wouldn't you want Ruben on WOF or since he has the hardware the HOF? Since guards are always underrated, who is worthy of the HOF from that position? Or is the position worthless? We haven't had a HOF worthy guard since the 60s or 70s? I think there's too many "unheralded" positions in a game that is theoretically about teamwork. I'd argue, also, in favor of Brian Moorman for WOF and Tasker for HOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, GregPersons said: I'm not disagreeing necessarily that he was overrated. However I don't really know what overrated means with OL, to be honest, because OL is almost always dogged. Even when an OL is good, it's rarely acknowledged as good in the moment. Bills OL is pretty good but we focus on the bad. Just human nature maybe. So my thing is like -- who are the better interior OL, particularly at G? Center and LT get the lions share of respect and acknowledgment b/c they have the closest relationship to the QB in play, usually. I feel like we'd likely all agree that Eric Wood is deserving of WOF, at least. So why wouldn't you want Ruben on WOF or since he has the hardware the HOF? Since guards are always underrated, who is worthy of the HOF from that position? Or is the position worthless? We haven't had a HOF worthy guard since the 60s or 70s? I think there's too many "unheralded" positions in a game that is theoretically about teamwork. I'd argue, also, in favor of Brian Moorman for WOF and Tasker for HOF. You should have stopped here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregPersons Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: Undoubtedly the Nix era. "Somebody nudge Buddy, he's nodded off again!" Optimus Prime would have also skirted Whaley's concerns about humans playing football. ? I've said before that I would very much watch a robot football league, lol. Those FOX NFL robots they show between the breaks? I'm like, yeah actually, why don't they just make those? Musk, Gates, all you #######s should be making football robots. Buddy of mine says his favorite thing about Josh Allen is that he's a "football robot." Thats his highest praise. You can have a human league and then the robot league. Now, this begs the question. Could the best human team play the best robot team? Of course. But it would be the humans folly to pick that battle... 3 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: You should have stopped here. If I'd stopped there, my point would be incomplete It's hard to be an "over-rated" Guard when, otherwise, are all Guards worthless? I don't really understand. Ruben took penalties, yeah. Jim Kelly did too, and threw interceptions. So, if Ruben was agreed to be the best at his position consistently by his peers/coaches/press... you think he was undeserving because...? Unclear. Just "overrated." Edited June 12, 2020 by GregPersons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Is this really a question? Answer: No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregPersons Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, CSBill said: Is this really a question? Answer: No! Which guards from that era or until now should be in the HOF? Anyone? Edited June 12, 2020 by GregPersons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLEN1QB Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 15 minutes ago, ALLEN-2-DIGGS-TD!! said: Who? Who's on first. What's on second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Augie said: No. He was good, not great. It feels like he got too many penalties, and too much appreciation based upon reputation. He got voted to Hawaii mostly based upon his name. The next guy to the Wall should be Butch Byrd. I don’t know why he’s not up already. Maybe he pissed Ralph off during his time on the team that would ensure that he would never get on the wall while Ralph was the owner look at Lou Saban the only one to win a championship in team history and Ralph wouldn't give him his due !! The Pegs may have to do there Bills history home work on some of the players like Byrd and others worthy of the WOF there sure are a lot of really good players for the Bills missing on it . Edited June 12, 2020 by T master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 15 hours ago, Geo in Pa said: If there was a hall of very good, of course. There is! http://www.profootballresearchers.org/hall-of-very-good.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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