on the evening of June 5th, 1944, the Directive came.

[Chandler#81]

This directive from the Supreme Commander of Allied Forces reached and was heard by all military personnel serving in the European Campaign on the evening of June 5th, 1944, just ahead of the D-Day invasion of France, at dawn of the next day. Every American city, town and neighborhood was represented and played a role in this greatest endeavor.
#NeverForget

 

[Happy]

If only those bombers would have been able to hit the German bunkers on top of the cliffs overlooking the beaches.  I believe the weather was cloudy and they bombed inland a bit too far.  Brave men...much braver than me.

[Chandler#81]

Yes, overall, the pre-invasion coastal bombing was very effective on the other 4 beachfronts, knocking out gun emplacements and creating holes in the beaches for soldiers to hide from machine gun fire. I’ve heard the air corps over Normandy were directed to ‘wait 5 seconds more’ due to the fog from 1st Hand accounts, but others claim they hit their Omaha Beach targets. They obviously didn’t hit it enough. Gen. Bradley nearly called off the Normandy assault due to the carnage on the beach, but Ship Captains chose to chance beaching their vessels by moving in close to wipe out the big weapons.   

 

All this while Hitler slept, with orders not to disturb him. 

[Happy]

29 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Yes, overall, the pre-invasion coastal bombing was very effective on the other 4 beachfronts, knocking out gun emplacements and creating holes in the beaches for soldiers to hide from machine gun fire. I’ve heard the air corps over Normandy were directed to ‘wait 5 seconds more’ due to the fog from 1st Hand accounts, but others claim they hit their Omaha Beach targets. They obviously didn’t hit it enough. Gen. Bradley nearly called off the Normandy assault due to the carnage on the beach, but Ship Captains chose to chance beaching their vessels by moving in close to wipe out the big weapons.   

 

All this while Hitler slept, with orders not to disturb him. 

 

Interestingly, Saving Private Ryan was pretty accurate regarding D-day, from what I can gather.

[sherpa]

As a guy who did this for a living, and planned countless strikes against similar targets, I can't understand how these people, honorable as they were, did what they did.

Level bombing is ridiculously inaccurate and foolish.

What they should have done is come in low level, under the overcast, and dive bomb the German defenses.

Same huge mistake made in the initial strikes on the Japanese fleet at Midway, until Navy guys dive bombed the Japanese carrier group.

Having done this, and looking at what the "Army Air Force" did in WWII, I wonder why so many live were needlessly lost.

[Chandler#81]

@sherpa, well, for starters, flying was barely 30 years old. Bi-wings were still being used at the start of the war. So many inventions came about because of the war. Even Radar was brand new. Their early bombing efforts were based on speed and altitude. They weren’t ‘huge mistakes’ as they were the 1st efforts. WWI had the pilots dropping bombs by hand out of the cockpit.  The battle of the Coral Sea 2 years earlier was the 1st ever Naval engagement where neither side had visual contact or fired on the enemy.

 

its too easy to use today’s tactics to criticize strategy then. Most, if not all the toys you speak of didn’t exist. We didn’t even have jets until the very end of the war.

[sherpa]

7 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

@sherpa, well, for starters, flying was barely 30 years old. Bi-wings were still being used at the start of the war. So many inventions came about because of the war. Even Radar was brand new. Their early bombing efforts were based on speed and altitude. They weren’t ‘huge mistakes’ as they were the 1st efforts. WWI had the pilots dropping bombs by hand out of the cockpit.  The battle of the Coral Sea 2 years earlier was the 1st ever Naval engagement where neither side had visual contact or fired on the enemy.

 

its too easy to use today’s tactics to criticize strategy then. Most, if not all the toys you speak of didn’t exist. We didn’t even have jets until the very end of the war.

 

This has nothing to do with radar, jets or anything other than simply choosing a far more accurate delivery tactic.

Midway happened exactly two years earlier than D Day.

In that battle, the US Army Air Force used level bombing tactics to strike the Japanese fleet and achieved exactly zero hits.

The Navy dive bombing an hour or so later  took out four Japanese carriers and changed the course of the war, so it absolutely wasn't a case of "not knowing."

Hitting a moving ship is significantly more difficult than striking a fixed target, but the lessons were learned.

They simply did things that way then, as they did for years of bombing Germany, with equally inefficient results. Ultimately successful, but woefully inefficient.

The weather over coastal France that day was not bad enough to prevent a far more effective air campaign, but they settled for a Naval barrage and ineffective air support. 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by sherpa

[Chandler#81]

Midway battle had 2 different flight squads.  The 1st attack was from land based, low level fighters & bombers and we lost nearly every plane. The 2nd group were carrier based dive bombers, who’d actually lost their way and were running out of fuel when they spotted a destroyer speeding NE. Following it led them straight to the ***** fleet and they were already high in the sky. A Complete Chance opportunity.

Anyway, again, criticizing tactics (“they should have done this, they shouldn’t have done that”) using modern day capabilities vs the infantile methodology of the day 75 years ago, is ridiculous.

 

But feel empowered to start your own thread.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Chandler#81
added last line

[sherpa]

The point I was making is that that isn't "modern day tactics," is is a more accurate way to place bombs on target that was well known two years prior, used in the Pacific and by the Germans.

By the way, McClusky's strike group did not "lose their way."

The Japanese carrier fleet had turned north because they had finally been alerted to a US carrier group, and were going up to engage, and there were far more than "two squads," as you call them. There were shore based Army Air Corps bombers and Marine airplanes, and carrier based fighter, dive bomber and torpedo bomber squadrons.

Calm down.

[Chandler#81]

No, despite being encouraged to take your take to your own thread, the point you’re relentlessly failing at is criticizing 75 year old aerial tactics, using modern day platforms. 

I wish you’d calm down, but you’ve chosen to hijack a D-Day anniversary topic for ridiculous bitching from the other side of the planet.

 

Thanks, and Congrats.