Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Just now, Rico said: Only who fact-checks the fact-checkers? “Facts” can be like stats, they can be manipulated in many ways. That’s why I think it’s best to determine where a person or source is coming from first, whether it’s Fox News or Slate.Com. Bottom line, trust nothing but your own instincts. Use the force, Luke. I think that's total and complete BS. This country didn't go to the moon, save Apollo13, serve a major role in eradicating smallpox, and make significant improvements to public health by "trusting our own instincts". But I'm not gonna engage in a prolonged back and forth about it. Somewhere Else, Not Here. Look at where a source is coming from. Look at media bias evaluators. Look at fact checkers. Believe them or don't. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think that's total and complete BS. This country didn't go to the moon, save Apollo13, serve a major role in eradicating smallpox, and make significant improvements to public health by "trusting our own instincts". But I'm not gonna engage in a prolonged back and forth about it. Somewhere Else, Not Here. Look at where a source is coming from. Look at media bias evaluators. Look at fact checkers. Believe them or don't. I won’t comment any further, only to say that the things you mention were years ago and not now. All media these days is agenda-driven, and needs to be taken with a very large grain of salt. Cheers! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 7 hours ago, BigBillsFan said: This is a political movement whose aim is to change America with destroying free speech, jobs, and threats. Then if you disagree you want them to shut up. Tell that to the journalists who lost jobs, teachers, and athletes who just questioned if this was all above board. Why? The mob questioned them as racists and forced their employers to bend to their will. Thank you for this quote. Along with a comment your previously made this week about how racism and white privilege aren't real things, you've saved me the time of bothering to debate with you. "Tell that to the journalists who lost their jobs"? How about "tell the countless black people who lost their LIVES to police brutality that racism isn't real"! Or, to stick with your "journalists" idea, "Tell the journalists getting unlawfully attacked by police DAILY this week that this cause isn't worth fighting for"! Your mind is clearly completely closed. Your obvious anger at people wanting justice for black Americans shows me exactly where you stand. You've made it abundantly clear. If you think this movement's aim is to "destroy free speech and jobs" and you don't think racism is real, I don't know what else to say. The only other thing I can think of is this: You're part of the problem. 5 minutes ago, Rico said: I won’t comment any further, only to say that the things you mention were years ago and not now. All media these days is agenda-driven, and needs to be taken with a very large grain of salt. Cheers! You've once again ignored the fact that the spreadsheet I linked, with over 100 videos from just ONE WEEK....is not linked to any one source. But you do you, bud. Cheers! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, Rico said: I won’t comment any further, only to say that the things you mention were years ago and not now. All media these days is agenda-driven, and needs to be taken with a very large grain of salt. Cheers! Ever wonder how it got that way? It’s no coincidence, imo. I’m involved in research on behalf of a formal study seeking to shed light on the subject. From why we structured our post WWII media ownership laws and regulations the way we did to their abolishment in the 80s to the mass consolidation of media ownership to the proliferation of social media today. It’s fascinating stuff and suffice to say, it’s all played a part in the current media climate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBillsFan Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, Logic said: Thank you for this quote. Along with a comment your previously made this week about how racism and white privilege aren't real things... Your mind is clearly completely closed. Your obvious anger at people wanting justice for black Americans shows me exactly where you stand. You've made it abundantly clear. If you think this movement's aim is to "destroy free speech and jobs" and you don't think racism is real, I don't know what else to say. The only other thing I can think of is this: You're part of the problem. I have the same opinion as these guys, who coincidentally are black and I've never said racism wasn't real, that's bad "Logic": Mackie says it best. Go to 2:45 minutes Maybe Denzel's mind is closed: Morgan Freeman go to 1:05 Here's a collage of more closed minded people: Maybe Bob Woodson, who's done more for Black America than anyone on here should open his mind: Everyone should admit racism exists, what we shouldn't do is make this a bully propaganda and be political. The protests make no sense, the guy is in custody to be judged. This is done to take power and if you are too closed minded to see that side you're right, you don't want a conversation. Mackie says exactly how you think better than I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, K-9 said: Ever wonder how it got that way? It’s no coincidence, imo. I’m involved in research on behalf of a formal study seeking to shed light on the subject. From why we structured our post WWII media ownership laws and regulations the way we did to their abolishment in the 80s to the mass consolidation of media ownership to the proliferation of social media today. It’s fascinating stuff and suffice to say, it’s all played a part in the current media climate. What happened to George Floyd was truly heinous, but (all) media IMO is by far the biggest problem in the country these days. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 15 minutes ago, Rico said: What happened to George Floyd was truly heinous, but (all) media IMO is by far the biggest problem in the country these days. We will 100% have to agree to disagree 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 24 minutes ago, Rico said: What happened to George Floyd was truly heinous, but (all) media IMO is by far the biggest problem in the country these days. Do you know anyone in MSM? Just curious. I do, and they are incredibly well-read and thoughtful, and do their very best to be balanced and careful. That's not everyone, to be sure, just the folks I know. Then again, if you're including social media, I might even agree with you - social media has added very little value to our lives, and has significantly increased tribalism. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Do you know anyone in MSM? Just curious. I do, and they are incredibly well-read and thoughtful, and do their very best to be balanced and careful. That's not everyone, to be sure, just the folks I know. Then again, if you're including social media, I might even agree with you - social media has added very little value to our lives, and has significantly increased tribalism. I know no one, not a soul. There are some I would like to get to know, like Jen Franciotti on Ch. 11 in Baltimore. if your friends have scruples and integrity, that’s great. Odds are though that they are working for or are controlled by someone who does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 28 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Do you know anyone in MSM? Just curious. I do, and they are incredibly well-read and thoughtful, and do their very best to be balanced and careful. That's not everyone, to be sure, just the folks I know. Then again, if you're including social media, I might even agree with you - social media has added very little value to our lives, and has significantly increased tribalism. Great point about social media. My theory is that one of the reasons it fosters and exacerbates tribalism is that the more we seek out information that we only want to hear by people we only want to listen to, the more outraged we become when we hear something we don’t want to hear from someone we don’t like. It’s no coincidence that foreign entities seek to weaponize these platforms to further create divisions and weaken our democratic principals. The very idea of America itself is under attack. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 39 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Do you know anyone in MSM? Just curious. I do, and they are incredibly well-read and thoughtful, and do their very best to be balanced and careful. That's not everyone, to be sure, just the folks I know. Then again, if you're including social media, I might even agree with you - social media has added very little value to our lives, and has significantly increased tribalism. That's the bad side of social media. The good side is that through ordinary people sharing their actual first hand experience, it becomes much harder to hide bad doings. The challenge is determining the difference between bots/misrepresented images and ordinary people sharing in-moment first hand experience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, K-9 said: Great point about social media. My theory is that one of the reasons it fosters and exacerbates tribalism is that the more we seek out information that we only want to hear by people we only want to listen to, the more outraged we become when we hear something we don’t want to hear from someone we don’t like. It’s no coincidence that foreign entities seek to weaponize these platforms to further create divisions and weaken our democratic principals. The very idea of America itself is under attack. How does this ignore feature work on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) There's a really simple fix that would greatly improve the quality of reporting and discourse from the mainstream media. The FCC simply needs to bring back the Fairness Doctrine. Under the Fairness Doctrine, broadcasters were required to "present controversial issues of public importance in a manner that was honest, equitable, and balanced". It was effectively killed under the Reagan administration, and its ouster has given rise to the highly polarized, not-at-all fair and balanced news networks we see today. What we now have, in the absence of the Fairness Doctrine, is propaganda masquerading as news. Fox News is very clearly GOP TV, MSNBC is clearly Lefty TV, and on and on. I agree that mainstream media is failing us insofar as they do not present a clear, unbiased picture of current events to the public, they are not transparent about the FACT that their broadcast is biased, and they allow their financial interests to outweigh their duty to inform the public in an honest way. I do NOT agree with the Trumpian attacks on the free press in general, and I do NOT agree with his constant crusade against them. In fact, I think its downright fascist and incredibly dangerous. A well-functioning free press is a cornerstone of a strong democratic republic. So, bringing back the Fairness Doctrine and increasing the levels of honesty and accountability of our mainstream media? Yes. Attacking the free press in general and sophomorically labeling anything one doesn't agree with as "FAKE NEWS!!!"? Absurd, counter-productive, dangerous. Bring back the Fairness Doctrine. Edited June 9, 2020 by Logic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: How does this ignore feature work on here? We all need the safe cushion of our bubbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Logic said: There's a really simple fix that would greatly improve the quality of reporting and discourse from the mainstream media. The FCC simply needs to bring back the Fairness Doctrine. Under the Fairness Doctrine, broadcasters were required to "present controversial issues of public importance in a manner that was honest, equitable, and balanced". It was effectively killed under the Reagan administration, and its ouster has given rise to the highly polarized, not-at-all fair and balanced news networks we see today. What we now have, in the absence of the Fairness Doctrine, is propaganda masquerading as news. Fox News is very clearly GOP TV, MSNBC is clearly Lefty TV, and on and on. I agree that mainstream media is failing us insofar as they do not present a clear, unbiased picture of current events to the public, they are not transparent about the FACT that their broadcast is biased, and they allow their financial interests to outweigh their duty to inform the public in an honest way. I do NOT agree with the Trumpian attacks on the free press in general, and I do NOT agree with his constant crusade against them. In fact, I think its downright fascist and incredibly dangerous. A well-functioning free press is a cornerstone of a strong democratic republic. So, bringing back the Fairness Doctrine and increasing the levels of honesty and accountability of our mainstream media? Yes. Attacking the free press in general and sophomorically labeling anything one doesn't agree with as "FAKE NEWS!!!"? Absurd, counter-productive, dangerous. Bring back the Fairness Doctrine. The 80s saw the elimination of dozens of media regulations which contribute to today’s polarization. The change in media ownership laws paved the way for the huge wave of consolidation in the media, for example. It’s a fascinating study to be a part of. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 9 hours ago, K-9 said: Great point about social media. My theory is that one of the reasons it fosters and exacerbates tribalism is that the more we seek out information that we only want to hear by people we only want to listen to, the more outraged we become when we hear something we don’t want to hear from someone we don’t like. It’s no coincidence that foreign entities seek to weaponize these platforms to further create divisions and weaken our democratic principals. The very idea of America itself is under attack. That’s the internet in general. Folks’ homepages usually aren’t websites they disagree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 13 hours ago, K-9 said: We all need the safe cushion of our bubbles. It was a poor joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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