Sherlock Holmes Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 My point that I made about all lives mattering being taken as some negative racist connotation is on point... Everybody has an opinion and takes issue with what they perceive to be negative, but to perceive somebody caring and treating everybody equally, which is what eveybody has been in in a tizzy about for the past 200 years as negativity and racism is beyond moronic. That falls into entitlement and looking for something beyond equality, something that will never be attainable, they will never find peace because they are looking for war! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billrooter Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Billl said: I wouldn’t think Bills fans would be so quick to hope QBs start making racially divisive tweets. He was joking as was I Billl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, K-9 said: One would hope that this is obvious to everyone with even a cursory understating of our history. Unfortunately for many, they let symbols become more important than the very rights those symbols represent. I fully understand that feeling though, as my stomach turns every time I see our flag flying next to the Nazi flag at their meetings or rallies. I have to remind myself that no, our service men and women didn’t fight and just to see a Nazi flag fly next to ours, but for the right to do so instead. That’s a distinction we MUST embrace or the sacrifice is lost entirely. That is really well-said. To put it another way: the fact that the message makes you uncomfortable (in its content OR the timing and manner of its expression) makes First Amendment protection for it all the more necessary. (Putting aside, for now, the public/private employer issue which is actually very complicated here.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 24 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: First off, it's apparently not true that people know why Kaep and others were kneeling and its meaning. People continue to associate it with disrespecting the military. Second off, I "get it" that you feel the national anthem and flag should be off limits, but that's the very point of the protest - to viscerally make the point that the guys kneeling feel they don't, in fact, have "liberty and justice for all" in this country. If they knelt at some other point, it would not draw as much attention or have as much impact. That said, I reiterate that I personally hold the opinion that the NFL owners did have the collectively bargained right to prohibit "conduct detrimental to the league" or some such wording on the point of their employees, and that in general, employers do get the right to set conduct expectations for their employees. He did legit do a lot for the city of New Orleans post Katrina. I guess technically that doesn't make him a good man per se but he did do good things. he donated $5m to food banks like a month ago. He’s not the devil. But he’s incredibly tone deaf on this despite having been through it before. It’s not the first time he’s confused being a leader of football players with being the voice of the community. Even his apology had that line about being a leader of the black community instead of simply supporter of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billrooter Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Billl said: The flag belongs to everyone, not just you. No sh&t Billl thanks for enlightening me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I take it for Tre, that would be "apology not accepted" ? It's about actions speaking louder than words. If people like Drew Brees and Tom Brady lead the charge it would make such a huge difference. If those people came up with better ways to combat racism then they should do it. Lead marches. The problem is that the only real way to end it is at the voting booth and many people in this country support racist elected officials because they vote the same party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billrooter Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 hours ago, ProcessAccepted said: You poor baby. White people claiming to struggle with racism is an interesting take on society. Where does this bare out in opportunity, wealth, quality of health care, protection from the police........ So now it's OK for athletes to comment on political issues. Where was your outrage when LeBron (amongst many others) was told to shut up and just entertain us. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/19/587097707/laura-ingraham-told-lebron-james-to-shutup-and-dribble-he-went-to-the-hoop I'm a white guy who knows that I got a heck of a head start in life because of my skin color. All they want is to level the playing field. Just think of it as a Bills fan watching the Patriots get away with holds, intentional grounding, PIs etc. Really I am a baby now? I have a feeling you wouldn't call me that in real life but what do I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said: My point that I made about all lives mattering being taken as some negative racist connotation is on point... Everybody has an opinion and takes issue with what they perceive to be negative, but to perceive somebody caring and treating everybody equally, which is what eveybody has been in in a tizzy about for the past 200 years as negativity and racism is beyond moronic. That falls into entitlement and looking for something beyond equality, something that will never be attainable, they will never find peace because they are looking for war! You are painting with too broad a brush. You may well not have a racist intent when arguing “all lives matter,” but there are many in society - and on this board - who are closeted racists, who legitimately believe that black people are predisposed to criminality and that police brutality is a natural and appropriate reaction to “thug culture,” and who hide their true beliefs in the shadows and use “all lives matter” as a Hawaiian shirt, a seemingly unassailable and inoffensive gesture with a deeper, malevolent intent. Seriously, those people exist, there are legions of them, I suspect several posters in this thread even. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think there are many ways Brees could have answered that question that would be far less divisive but still be true to his personal beliefs Whenever a Bills player screws up off the field, there are often discussions in the subsequent threads that take the opposing sides of "I don't care what kind of person a player is, as long as he can play his position" vs. "I want the players on my team to be people we can be proud of." I generally find myself tending towards the latter. But, the question really boils down to entertainment value. Do we enjoy the drama? Does the game day benefit from the drama? I would be pretty disappointed if Allen had come out and said what Brees did. But, at the same time, when Brady* took a shot in the ribs from Kyle Williams, knowing that Brady* is kind of a cheating douche, we all cheered a little louder. Brees' opinion, misguided though it may be, doesn't hurt the discussion about Kaepernick's protest, or the current BLM protests, because it gives people another opportunity for civil discussion where they may find fault in their own positions. But, I also don't think it hurts the NFL, either. Even in New Orleans-- let the drama unfold. It's something for people to follow, and when Brees comes out with his apologies, and back-pedaling (or not), it's just one more story on the sports page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 This right here is exactly what is wrong with this country. The hypocrisy, and it happens on every side. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think there are many ways Brees could have answered that question that would be far less divisive but still be true to his personal beliefs It is impossible to not be divisive, you can never make eveybody happy all at once no matter what is said! There is always somebody looking to be angry over what is said no matter who says it! You can love everybody equally and perfectly and there is still a lynchmob waiting in the bushes, this is exactly what Jesus taught us, not even speaking on a religious level. Those people that have hate in their hearts is what needs to change, we all need to come together in unity, not arguing, not bickering, just understanding that everybody has free speech and that we shouldn't take what somebody says so personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Oh man, seeing as the last 2 Brees threads were shut down I’m sure this one will last... While I do think that we should have this discussion on here it can’t be on the main board. It’s WAY too divisive of a topic. Maybe PPP? Either way, this topic is going to do nothing but divide up the board and people are going to say some uncomfortable/uneducated stuff. I’ll just leave on this. Brees has never been the person that everyone thought. He has maintained a squeaky clean image but was never “Breesus” as some believed. There are some skeletons in that closet that have been tucked away. This may not end well for Drew... Yeah like what skeletons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I take it for Tre, that would be "apology not accepted" ? Yeah, he appears to think the apology is fake and PR driven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: It's about actions speaking louder than words. If people like Drew Brees and Tom Brady lead the charge it would make such a huge difference. If those people came up with better ways to combat racism then they should do it. Lead marches. The problem is that the only real way to end it is at the voting booth and many people in this country support racist elected officials because they vote the same party. The only real way to end it is to stop being satisfied with simply being “not racist.” It’s just not enough to proclaim ourselves “not racist” as that’s just too convenient and comfortable. We need to be “anti racist” and that means telling our friends to STFU when they tell a racist joke or demanding our bigoted uncle leave the house at Thanksgiving. It means no more merely standing idly by and dismissing racist acts when we witness them just because we ourselves don’t hold those values. Anything short of that and we are complicit. All of us. 3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Yeah, he appears to think the apology is fake and PR driven I agree with Tre White. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, badassgixxer05 said: Yes they associate it with disrespecting the flag because of when its occurring, not just because they took a knee. And you second point there kinda points to the fact that they were trying to disrespect the flag? I do remember Kap making some comments that he cant stand for a flag that stands for him having no rights. By definition that would be purposely disrespecting the flag and people would have the right to then associate just the kneeling part with disrespecting the flag. I see past the bs and see the cause. We need to put more emphasis on that. I don't think it points to, or is a "fact" that they were "trying to disrespect the flag". I'm not going to repeat my points because frankly, I expressed them about as well as I could up-thread. I'll just say that I find it ironic (and I don't know that this is your point, so please don't take it as saying so!) that some who are quite loud in voicing concern about a trend to letting only "one voice" or "one way of expressing" be heard, when it's Drew Brees speaking (and others objecting to what he says) don't seem to see a paradox in trying to define "one voice" about what it means to take a knee while the National Anthem is being played (and thousands in the stands are heading for the loo, or swilling beer, or chatting, or doing a number of things other than facing the flag and standing with their hat off and their right hand on their heart). I said to my kid in the teen years (I know I'm not alone here) "I love you but I don't love how you're behaving right now". I don't think I was disrespecting her by saying that. I think Kaepernick can say "I acknowledge my country and flag by taking a knee because I can not accept some things that are happening" without it being seen as "disrespect" or about the military or the flag. I see a contradiction there, and I don't think it's BS. (I also quoted Kaep's exact words up thread, which were not about him having no rights). I do respect the opinions of those who see it differently, provided they acknowledge it's their opinion and not some annointed truth or fact. 7 minutes ago, badassgixxer05 said: Flags aside, i think everyone can agree there are issues to be sorted out. 1 cop killing 1 black man is not that issue. The deaths across the board are the issue, and i wish i would see more of these protests everytime a black man is killed. Everytime a white man is killed. Everytime anyone is killed. The violence needs to stop. Gangs need to stop. Meaningless killings need to stop. I hope a day will come where people are not looked at as color and just as people. It takes everyone to forget color not just cops/whites. Lets just all come together and march saying i don't see color. Then anyone against that protest you could then call a racist. Then deal with the divide. Not sure how else to put it. Certainly there are issues to sort out, but it seems relevant to acknowledge that police actions are a special problem. Law enforcement officers are given a wide latitude in their use of force due to the dangerous nature of their job. It's a special and specific problem if some officers employ force in manner that causes permanent damage or death, or are prejudiced in how they choose to employ force - especially if there are, practically speaking, no accountability or repercussions to them. It's not to disagree with your point about meaningless killings needing to stop, it's just to point out that when killings are conducted by people with a specific class of legal protections, they may require specific efforts to address and redress - the point to which (I believe) Kaepernick was trying to draw attention. It would be great if there were a measured and educational response to Brees' remarks, but people who are upset and impassioned and frustrated aren't always in a place where that happens. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 I think Brees is fine to think kneeling is disrespectful and I think it’s fine for those that think it’s patriotic...question becomes can society be ok with there not being a right or wrong point of view? Because, imo, that’s the only way this thing gets solved... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: You are painting with too broad a brush. You may well not have a racist intent when arguing “all lives matter,” but there are many in society - and on this board - who are closeted racists, who legitimately believe that black people are predisposed to criminality and that police brutality is a natural and appropriate reaction to “thug culture,” and who hide their true beliefs in the shadows and use “all lives matter” as a Hawaiian shirt, a seemingly unassailable and inoffensive gesture with a deeper, malevolent intent. Seriously, those people exist, there are legions of them, I suspect several posters in this thread even. That's the problem... too much focus is being put into what is said. What somebody says means a million different things to a million different people. It is extremely hard to know context without talking face to face to somebody and getting real human interaction. We need to stop using words because that will never work for that reason. We need to use actions. We need to show respect to each other and not cut each other down, we need to help others when they can't help themselves. We need to show love and compassion. Then things can truly change! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 I'm a veteran. To ME, our flag represents all my brothers and sisters sacrifices made for every citizen of this country while serving. That flag means a lot to me as does our national anthem. I stand, hand over heart because of what they mean to me. I do not agree with the desicration of our flag, nor with the kneeling during the anthem. I understand and support the cause, as it hits close to home. But i don't have to agree or like every action taken during the delivery of the message to understand and support it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfod Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) If I was a famous person being asked questions after a serious emotional event I wouldn't say much other than it is tragic and disappointing and nothing more. I'm not going to put my opinion out there during a time when a lot of people are emotionally fired up about something. People will take advantage of you for ratings. Edited June 4, 2020 by Lfod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, loyal2dagame said: I'm a veteran. To ME, our flag represents all my brothers and sisters sacrifices made for every citizen of this country while serving. That flag means a lot to me as does our national anthem. I stand, hand over heart because of what they mean to me. I do not agree with the desicration of our flag, nor with the kneeling during the anthem. I understand and support the cause, as it hits close to home. But i don't have to agree or like every action taken during the delivery of the message to understand and support it. the thing is you can stand hand over heart but once you say you don’t agree with others choice not to you have invited their feedback since you are judging their actions. in a locker room setting the dude needs to know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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