T master Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 There was a post earlier this yr that showed how many balls were dropped last season by the Bills WR's which if they were caught (of course) could have helped Josh with his completion percentage by bringing in Diggs (if he is who we think he is) he should increase Allen's percentage just by being on the field . Add to that the fact that Josh has been working on his long ball the jump in production this yr should be more than noticeable !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillies Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 21 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said: This is way off, you have 1 red dot in the wrong place There are typically outliers in every data set. I left it in for completeness. I think that one was a shovel pass that went for a 98 yard TD. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 Brandon Marshall, Terrell Owens and Randy Moss are good case studies of WRs who have played under different QBs of varying quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantha Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 (edited) Graphs aside, it's an interesting core question. We all hate Brady. Let's just get that out of the way... but we have to look at him in relation to this question. Undeniably, he's been one of the best QB's in this league with numerous MVP awards, well over 10 Probowls, 6 Superbowls, and 3 Superbowl MVP awards. So is Brady a product of his WR's or vice versa? Plus there's the O-LINE discussion that should be noted. Do O-LINE'S make a QB? If you don't want to talk about Brady, a similar discussion can be had about Montana, Peyton Manning, Favre, Elway, Marino, or Brees... But I thought that Bills fans would know their ENEMY the best, so Brady it is.... First off, Brady has arguably enjoyed one of the most consistently good O-lines in the league. He can stand in the pocket and get the ball out quick. His coaches always drew up a playbook that plays to his strengths. Getting the ball out quick, with a few well timed deep balls. I'd say Brady's O-line has MORE to do with his production over the years than his wide receivers, but here's a closer look at his "targets" over the past 3 years. Personally, I see these lists as "stable hands" with the top WR's as being great route runners, and not "big time, deep threat, stars". Randy Moss might have been that guy, but it's the exception to the Patriots rule IMO. Add to that one of the better TE's over the years with Gronk, and you've got an amazing "game managing, short game". Get the ball out quick, exploit mismatches, and outsmart defensive game planning. The bottom line for me, is that the GREAT QB's are not great on their own. They have: 1. Consistently SOLID O-lines., 2. Smart game planning/coaching., 3. Solid WR's with top notch route running skills, but they don't have to be superstar deep threats. IF BRADY WAS DRAFTED BY THE BROWNS, HE WOULD BE A NOBODY TODAY. 2019/20: 12-4, 1st AFC East, Lost Wildcard Playoffs 2018/19: 11-5, 1st AFC East, Won the Superbowl 2017/18: 13-3, 1st AFC East, Lost the Superbowl We can go further back, but that's too much work... They have made the playoffs every single year since Brady took over at QB, with NINE Superbowl appearances, and 5 wins. Edited May 28, 2020 by Yantha removed duplicated data Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yav Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 10 hours ago, GoBills808 said: According to this Jacoby Brissett is more responsible for receiver production than Mahomes Well, to be fair when a QB is throwing to the best WR in the game and said WR can adjust to under grown balls consistently it would be correct that the WR is making the QB look better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 (edited) They can make each other better. But I think a good to great QB can elevate a mediocre receiving Corp higher than a good to great receiving Corp elevates a bad QB. Edited May 28, 2020 by Mango 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 32 minutes ago, Yantha said: Graphs aside, it's an interesting core question. We all hate Brady. Let's just get that out of the way... but we have to look at him in relation to this question. Undeniably, he's been one of the best QB's in this league with numerous MVP awards, well over 10 Probowls, 6 Superbowls, and 3 Superbowl MVP awards. So is Brady a product of his WR's or vice versa? Plus there's the O-LINE discussion that should be noted. Do O-LINE'S make a QB? If you don't want to talk about Brady, a similar discussion can be had about Montana, Peyton Manning, Favre, Elway, Marino, or Brees... But I thought that Bills fans would know their ENEMY the best, so Brady it is.... First off, Brady has arguably enjoyed one of the most consistently good O-lines in the league. He can stand in the pocket and get the ball out quick. His coaches always drew up a playbook that plays to his strengths. Getting the ball out quick, with a few well timed deep balls. I'd say Brady's O-line has MORE to do with his production over the years than his wide receivers, but here's a closer look at his "targets" over the past 3 years. Personally, I see these lists as "stable hands" with the top WR's as being great route runners, and not "big time, deep threat, stars". Randy Moss might have been that guy, but it's the exception to the Patriots rule IMO. Add to that one of the better TE's over the years with Gronk, and you've got an amazing "game managing, short game". Get the ball out quick, exploit mismatches, and outsmart defensive game planning. The bottom line for me, is that the GREAT QB's are not great on their own. They have: 1. Consistently SOLID O-lines., 2. Smart game planning/coaching., 3. Solid WR's with top notch route running skills, but they don't have to be superstar deep threats. IF BRADY WAS DRAFTED BY THE BROWNS, HE WOULD BE A NOBODY TODAY. 2019/20: 12-4, 1st AFC East, Lost Wildcard Playoffs 2018/19: 11-5, 1st AFC East, Won the Superbowl 2017/18: 13-3, 1st AFC East, Lost the Superbowl We can go further back, but that's too much work... They have made the playoffs every single year since Brady took over at QB, with NINE Superbowl appearances, and 5 wins. Make some nice points in general. Though , I believe the Patriots failed to make the playoffs the year Brady had ACL injury? They went 11-5 but lost the division to Miami? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 42 minutes ago, Yantha said: Graphs aside, it's an interesting core question. We all hate Brady. Let's just get that out of the way... but we have to look at him in relation to this question. Undeniably, he's been one of the best QB's in this league with numerous MVP awards, well over 10 Probowls, 6 Superbowls, and 3 Superbowl MVP awards. So is Brady a product of his WR's or vice versa? Plus there's the O-LINE discussion that should be noted. Do O-LINE'S make a QB? If you don't want to talk about Brady, a similar discussion can be had about Montana, Peyton Manning, Favre, Elway, Marino, or Brees... But I thought that Bills fans would know their ENEMY the best, so Brady it is.... First off, Brady has arguably enjoyed one of the most consistently good O-lines in the league. He can stand in the pocket and get the ball out quick. His coaches always drew up a playbook that plays to his strengths. Getting the ball out quick, with a few well timed deep balls. I'd say Brady's O-line has MORE to do with his production over the years than his wide receivers, but here's a closer look at his "targets" over the past 3 years. Personally, I see these lists as "stable hands" with the top WR's as being great route runners, and not "big time, deep threat, stars". Randy Moss might have been that guy, but it's the exception to the Patriots rule IMO. Add to that one of the better TE's over the years with Gronk, and you've got an amazing "game managing, short game". Get the ball out quick, exploit mismatches, and outsmart defensive game planning. The bottom line for me, is that the GREAT QB's are not great on their own. They have: 1. Consistently SOLID O-lines., 2. Smart game planning/coaching., 3. Solid WR's with top notch route running skills, but they don't have to be superstar deep threats. IF BRADY WAS DRAFTED BY THE BROWNS, HE WOULD BE A NOBODY TODAY. 2019/20: 12-4, 1st AFC East, Lost Wildcard Playoffs 2018/19: 11-5, 1st AFC East, Won the Superbowl 2017/18: 13-3, 1st AFC East, Lost the Superbowl We can go further back, but that's too much work... They have made the playoffs every single year since Brady took over at QB, with NINE Superbowl appearances, and 5 wins. "IF BRADY WAS DRAFTED BY THE BROWNS, HE WOULD BE A NOBODY TODAY." I actually think your data proves otherwise. It tells me that Brady is the only common denominator and he would have been the GOAT anywhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Varies from QB to QB and from WR to WR. More, it's a complex system with a million variables. The correct answer, really, is that they affect each other. But overall, the QB makes the WR more than vice versa. The QB doesn't have to throw to a WR. You look at how great a receiver Will Fuller is and how little he got thrown to because of Deandre Hopkins being on that team. Look at Robert Woods' career. Anyone think Deshawn Watson is going to suck now that he's lost the best WR in football? I think he's going to have a bad year, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I think he's going to have a bad year, yes. That's gonna ruffle a certain Englishman's feathers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 8 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: That's gonna ruffle a certain Englishman's feathers... Yea. He won't. Will his numbers be down slightly? Think it possible. Bad year? No way. The Texans I expect to be worse, but Watson can play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yea. He won't. Will his numbers be down slightly? Think it possible. Bad year? No way. The Texans I expect to be worse, but Watson can play. Yea. He will. Allen puts up better numbers than Watson this year across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Yea. He will. Allen puts up better numbers than Watson this year across the board. Wait wait, gotta get some popcorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: Wait wait, gotta get some popcorn Nah. See while I have the courage of my convictions, some folks won't put their $$ where their mouth is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 QB makes the WR.....Unless your name is Randy Moss and you can just have your QB throw it 50 yards downfield and you jump and get the ball. Moss made Culpepper in those years Culpupper put up those big stats.....QB makes the WR in most other situations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Nah. See while I have the courage of my convictions, some folks won't put their $$ where their mouth is. We have done this before. Why would I create a rooting interest for the Bills to be bad? It is nonsensical to me. I don't bet serious money on my own sports teams for good or bad and I am not going to start because you think I should in your internet tough guy mode. You wanna do a $50 charity bet where the loser pays $50 to a charity of the winner's choice I am in. Anything else? Nah. It isn't for me. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: We have done this before. Why would I create a rooting interest for the Bills to be bad? It is nonsensical to me. I don't bet serious money on my own sports teams for good or bad and I am not going to start because you think I should in your internet tough guy mode. You wanna do a $50 charity bet where the loser pays $50 to a charity of the winner's choice I am in. Anything else? Nah. It isn't for me. The fact that my proposing a wager is viewed by you as 'internet tough guy mode'...smh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 1 hour ago, GoBills808 said: Yea. He will. Allen puts up better numbers than Watson this year across the board. What’s the wager? Pick. This isn’t even a knock on Allen but I think Watson is top 10. Watson is awesome 37 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: The fact that my proposing a wager is viewed by you as 'internet tough guy mode'...smh. Dude, he gave you a bet 43 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: We have done this before. Why would I create a rooting interest for the Bills to be bad? It is nonsensical to me. I don't bet serious money on my own sports teams for good or bad and I am not going to start because you think I should in your internet tough guy mode. You wanna do a $50 charity bet where the loser pays $50 to a charity of the winner's choice I am in. Anything else? Nah. It isn't for me. It’s an American thing. Don’t take it personal. And this is a no lose bet. If Allen is better than Watson, the Bills are SB contenders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 (edited) Look at the Colts when Manning got hurt. They won the Suck for Luck sweepstakes and were a playoff team soon thereafter. Losing elite QBs sends teams into a tailspin. Losing elite WRs hurts, but Mahomes kept rolling when Tyreek was out. In his first ever game (week 17 at Denver in 2017), the Chiefs rested nearly all of their starters. Albert Wilson and Demetrius Harris combined for 13 catches and 220 yards against one of the best defenses in the league. WRs are gasoline, but QBs are the fire. Edited May 28, 2020 by Billl 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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