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Dallas 175 million 5 year offer to Prescott

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Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

A frequently poor offensive line? The best left tackle in football? Clint Boling? Kevin Zeitler? At receiver AJ Green, Marvin Jones and Mohammed Sanu? Tyler Eifert at tight end? And that defense in Cincy was for real. That 2015 Bengals roster was stacked. 

 

Let me see here Gunner...you responded with a SINGLE years roster to refute what I said about his overall career in Cincy?  Come on man.  How does that make sense.  

 

And sorry, the current Dallas roster is still better overall.  Cowboys are stacked at WR, 2nd best RB in the NFL, solid at TE, and still one of the best, if not the best OL in football with a very talented defense.  

 

And you are exaggerating some of those guys.  Jones had 800 yards and wouldn't break 1000 yards until 2 years later in 2017 in his 2nd year with Lions (the only time he's ever had 1000 yards in a season) and is over rated.   Sanu?  Come on dude, he had less than 400 yards receiving and might be the most over rated player I have seen.  He is a 3rd option at best at WR.  Never reached 900 yards in a season, only broke 700 yards 3 times.  Lets not over exaggerate here.

 

Boyd is better than than Marvin.  This WR group you just listed isnt even the best WR group Dalton got to play with.  And I already said, the only thing he had over his career was consistently good WR group.

 

I would take this years Dallas roster every single time over that 2015 Bengals roster, and its honestly not even a tough choice.

 

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1 hour ago, Billl said:

The Redskins are the last team to let their QB walk because they didn’t want to pay him.  Think they’d like a do over, or are they good with having used a second rounder and a starting CB to get Alex Smith and burning a 1st round pick on Haskins?

 

Yeah.  He should give that poor billionaire owner a break.

 

 

 

Smith over Cousins was a value move.  Less guaranteed than Cousins and 4 years instead of 2.  Neither guy was the future of the team.  Cousins will cost the Vikings over 150 million for 5 years.  

 

Did they have to pick Haskins?  No.  But that has nothing to do with Smith as their QB at the time.  

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15 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

That'll happen when you play the foreskins and Giants over 1/4th of the season.

 

Oh I don’t disagree but that was 6th in the league. For some perspective, the Saints were +117. That just shows what a terrible job Garrett did.

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15 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It’s weird that some of the biggest pro Allen people are against Dak.  Do people think Allen is better than Dak?  
 

 

How did I know someone would bring this up? We're talking about a QB coming off of his 4th season a starter, looking for $35 million per year. Of course Dak is better than Allen right now. That has nothing to do with the conversation.

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3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

Smith over Cousins was a value move.  Less guaranteed than Cousins and 4 years instead of 2.  Neither guy was the future of the team.  Cousins will cost the Vikings over 150 million for 5 years.  

 

Did they have to pick Haskins?  No.  But that has nothing to do with Smith as their QB at the time.  

So do you think the Redskins are better off with their current situation than they would have been if they paid KC that money?  I sure don’t.  Then again, I’ve never visited the cap space HOF.  Maybe it’s a hidden gem.

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11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Let me see here Gunner...you responded with a SINGLE years roster to refute what I said about his overall career in Cincy?  Come on man.  How does that make sense.  

 

And sorry, the current Dallas roster is still better overall.  Cowboys are stacked at WR, 2nd best RB in the NFL, solid at TE, and still one of the best, if not the best OL in football with a very talented defense.  

 

And you are exaggerating some of those guys.  Jones had 800 yards and wouldn't break 1000 yards until 2 years later in 2017 in his 2nd year with Lions (the only time he's ever had 1000 yards in a season) and is over rated.   Sanu?  Come on dude, he had less than 400 yards receiving and might be the most over rated player I have seen.  He is a 3rd option at best at WR.  Never reached 900 yards in a season, only broke 700 yards 3 times.  Lets not over exaggerate here.

 

Boyd is better than than Marvin.  This WR group you just listed isnt even the best WR group Dalton got to play with.  And I already said, the only thing he had over his career was consistently good WR group.

 

I would take this years Dallas roster every single time over that 2015 Bengals roster, and its honestly not even a tough choice.

 

 

The Bengals gave him good rosters early. Bad rosters late. I like Andy Dalton. I was worried the Pats would sign him. But he isn't that close to Dak Prescott. Dalton is likely still better than a handful if guys who will start this year. Dak is better than 2/3s of them.

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Just now, Billl said:

So do you think the Redskins are better off with their current situation than they would have been if they paid KC that money?  I sure don’t.  Then again, I’ve never visited the cap space HOF.  Maybe it’s a hidden gem.

 

You're completely right---the Skins should have known Smith would have a Joe Theisman type career ending injury.

 

I hadn't considered that they should have factored that eventuality into their negotiations with Cousins.  That's a good point---I'll concede that.

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3 minutes ago, Billl said:

You’re being ridiculous, but that seems to be the default position for QB evaluation here.
 

Kirk Cousins since leaving Washington:  56 TDs, 26 INTs, 7900 passing yards

 

Case Keenum over that same stretch:  29 TDs, 20 INTs, 5600 passing yards

 

Dak sucks

Cousins sucks

Jackson sucks

Minshew sucks

Jones sucks

Other QBs had better coaching in middle school than Josh (yes, that was really posted here today), so he’s at a disadvantage.

 

Its like you just skim and reply without actually reading when you say things like this.  I mean I literally have said Kirk is better than Keenum...

 

But what I was actually pointing out is that Kirk has not done more than a journeyman did with the same roster, in fact he has done less as a team with similar personal stats as a guy who is NOT good in Keenum.

 

This boards obsession of AUTOMATICALLY assuming any time 2 QB's are mentioned its an automatic talent for talent comparison and you jump right to that.  What I ACTUALLY said in every post is that DESPITE Kirk being the better QB, he can NOT create better RESULTS on the field than WORSE QB's did before him.

 

2017 Vikings with KEENUM went 13-3 and made the NFCC game.  

2018 Vikins and 2019 Vikings with KIRK have seen SIMILAR QB stats with LESS winning and NOT going as far as the crap journeyman QB took them.

 

BOTTOM LINE:  As a GM, I am NEVER overpaying a QB if I do NOT believe he can get us to the Super Bowl and win it.  What has Kirk ever done to warrant that belief?  He was awful in big games and post season in Washington, like embarrassingly bad at times.  They saw him up close and did not see a guy worth investing and building around long term.  And what has Kirk done sing getting to Minnesota to prove that wrong?  Since getting to Minnesota, he has not elevated that team any higher than they were before he got there either despite having a better roster there than he had in Washington.  And he is playing at about the same level statistically as a bad QB did while winning less.  

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Billl said:

Amari Cooper was basically a JAG in Oakland.

 

That's nonsense. He had 1 season over 1,000 yards and another over 1,100. I think Cooper is a little overrated but he has never been a JAG. I mean of course Dak is better than Derek Carr but you cannot call Amari Cooper and Michael Gallup and Zeke Elliott a JAG offense.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Bengals gave him good rosters early. Bad rosters late. I like Andy Dalton. I was worried the Pats would sign him. But he isn't that close to Dak Prescott. Dalton is likely still better than a handful if guys who will start this year. Dak is better than 2/3s of them.

 

Im not saying Dalton is better than Dak...I am saying I dont think the Cowboys are much worse off with Dalton than they are with Dak.  I dont think the gap is massive in other words.  And again, I was saying bring in Cam to start and they got great insurance for injury still with Dalton.

 

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

How did I know someone would bring this up? We're talking about a QB coming off of his 4th season a starter, looking for $35 million per year. Of course Dak is better than Allen right now. That has nothing to do with the conversation.

 

Exactly.  And Allen isnt asking for $35M a year today.  Nor would I be for giving it to him either.  

 

24 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It’s weird that some of the biggest pro Allen people are against Dak.  Do people think Allen is better than Dak?  
 

 

Is Allen asking for $35M a year and I missed it?

Edited by Alphadawg7

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3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

How did I know someone would bring this up? We're talking about a QB coming off of his 4th season a starter, looking for $35 million per year. Of course Dak is better than Allen right now. That has nothing to do with the conversation.

I think it does.  I think if Allen comes even close to what Dak is doing (he’s not close as a passer at all), some of the same people putting down Dak would be begging the Bills to pay Allen.  There are just double standards some fans have.

 

i think besides the top guys, most qbs on their second contract are insanely overpaid and it kills teams long term.  But given what qbs have gotten recently, Dak certainly deserves his payday.

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32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Keenum is better than Tyrod too. I'd rather pay Kirk to get me to playoff wins than have the cap space to get to the 2nd overall pick. 

 

I think that is Buffalo Bills syndrome for one.  Playoffs?  Who cares...thats like getting a participation trophy.  Its about winning in the playoffs and winning a Super Bowl.  Did you even watch Cousins in the playoffs for the Redskins.  He was not good and only got them there once.  

 

Cousins has one career playoff win, and it was this year.  He is 6-13 in prime time games in his career to boot.  I respect the hell out of him for getting as much money as he did, but he has not yet once proven he is worth the investment.  Redskins didn't get anywhere with him, Vikings in 2 seasons with a very talented roster have not gone as far as Keenum took them the year before Cousins.  

 

So why is he worth $150M over 5 years?  Hasn't won in the spotlight or much in the postseason and hasn't elevated the Minnesota team yet after 2 years any higher than where Keenum had them.  Why should Washington have built around this guy for the next 5 years and paid him $150M over that span?  Had they done that they would still be a 6 to 9 win team at best right now with little to no Super Bowl chances.  

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Let’s blame the QB for losing to the 49ers.  He only went 21-29 passing against the best pass defense in football.  Never mind the fact that his team had 21 yards rushing and gave up 186 yards and 2 TDs on the ground.

21 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

You're completely right---the Skins should have known Smith would have a Joe Theisman type career ending injury.

 

I hadn't considered that they should have factored that eventuality into their negotiations with Cousins.  That's a good point---I'll concede that.

I guess they were wise to think the guy who had 1 playoff win in his 13 year career when the other team didn’t get shutout was about to  blossom in his late 30s.  You see, Alex was very raw due to poor middle school coaching.  He was just about to hit his stride at age 38.

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Posted (edited)

Redskins:  Let Cousins walk because they didn’t want to pay him $30,000,000.  Traded a second round pick and a 23 year old starting CB to the Chiefs for a 36 year old QB.  After that QB broke his leg, they are still paying him well over $20,000,000 a year for two more years.  They have also started Case Keenum and spent a high first round pick on Haskins.  Coming off a 3 win season, they are among the favorites in the Trevor Lawrence sweepstakes.

 

Chiefs:  Traded their soon to be backup QB for draft capital and a starting CB who recorded an interception in their Super Bowl win.

 

Vikings:  Signed Cousins who has thrown 56 TDs and 16 INTs and won a playoff game.  
 

Mr. WEO:  Thinks the Redskins made a shrewd deal and that the Dallas Cowboys should follow that blueprint and tie their wagon to Andy Dalton...the same Andy Dalton who got benched last season for Ryan Finley.

Edited by Billl

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Dak is among the pretty damn good but NOT great QB. I wouldn't want the Bills to have that much money stuck in a guy like that and unavailable for other players.

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1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Yep, that’s the sign of a fan base that isn’t accustomed to winning. Instead of enjoying the ride we are going to be worrying about our ability to retain Tyler Matakevich.

...or complaining that our QB isn't as good as the FA du jour.

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On 5/21/2020 at 3:17 PM, HOUSE said:

After re watching the Bills-Cowboys game from last year. I offer 80mil / 5yrs

One of many reasons why I hope he sign a huge deal and kills the Cowboys Due to cap suffocation.

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2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

They were better with Case Keenum the year before Kirk Cousins.  So you are wrong, they are not pining for those days...they just wish Kirk could do as good a job as crap QB Keenum.  

 

 

Where did I compare the QB talent wise?  I said the decision was the same.  Neither guy was getting them to the promise land.  So you dont over pay the guy you KNOW is not the man.  And Kirk has PROVEN that he is NOT anything special by doing the same Keenum did with less results and more talent around him.

 

He has not in anyway shape or form made Minny better than they were the year before him.  Do I think Kirk is better QB than Keenum, sure, but the results and performance are not there to support that belief.

Bro don’t even start on knowing QB’s. You thought Tyrod was the guy long after the rest of the NFL knew he was nothing. Two NFL franchises believed Cousins had enough talent to be a SB QB.

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