Dallas 175 million 5 year offer to Prescott

[Paup 1995MVP]

How much better are the Cowboys with Dak Prescott at QB then they are with Andy Dalton?   Prescott doesn't sign the deal, pull it off the table,  and trade him, and let Dalton be your starter this year.  He plays well, sign him for 2-3 more years.  He plays lousy, (which he never has) draft or sign someone else next year.  

 

Thats a big contract for a good but certainly not great QB. (Prescott)  Good defenses will stymie him all day long.  

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

The Redskins are the last team to let their QB walk because they didn’t want to pay him.  Think they’d like a do over, or are they good with having used a second rounder and a starting CB to get Alex Smith and burning a 1st round pick on Haskins?

 

Yeah.  He should give that poor billionaire owner a break.

 

Exactly. The Redskins said "we don't agree with the NFL market we are gonna opt out and go our own way. Stop the world I want to get off" Was a stupid decision. If Kirk Cousin and Dak Prescott level guys were easy to come by then fair enough. But Bills fans more than almost any should know they are not. 

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Exactly. The Redskins said "we don't agree with the NFL market we are gonna opt out and go our own way. Stop the world I want to get off" Was a stupid decision. If Kirk Cousin and Dak Prescott level guys were easy to come by then fair enough. But Bills fans more than almost any should know they are not. 

 

You have to remember that the Redskins were low-balling the contract for Cousins.  Cowboys have offered a fair contract IMO.

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

How much better are the Cowboys with Dak Prescott at QB then they are with Andy Dalton?   Prescott doesn't sign the deal, pull it off the table,  and trade him, and let Dalton be your starter this year.  He plays well, sign him for 2-3 more years.  He plays lousy, (which he never has) draft or sign someone else next year.  

 

Thats a big contract for a good but certainly not great QB. (Prescott)  Good defenses will stymie him all day long.  

 

They could sign Cam Newton with Dalton as the backup.  Or let them battle it out for the starting gig.  

 

Would the Cowboys really be any worse off with a combo of Cam and Dalton at QB than with Dak and Dalton?  I don't think so personally, and honestly, given the way this team has underachieved in Daks best seasons, there is a case to be made they could be better.   I mean Cam is a former MVP and taken a less talented team in the NFC to the SB.  

[Gugny]

14 minutes ago, Billl said:

The Redskins are the last team to let their QB walk because they didn’t want to pay him.  Think they’d like a do over, or are they good with having used a second rounder and a starting CB to get Alex Smith and burning a 1st round pick on Haskins?

 

Yeah.  He should give that poor billionaire owner a break.

 

I'm all for Dak getting paid and I think it makes sense for him to seek a 4 year deal.

 

I'm just pointing out that it's a bit of a slap in the face to tens of millions of unemployed US citizens right now to see a billionaire and a millionaire fighting over a $175 million football contract.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

They could sign Cam Newton with Dalton as the backup.  Or let them battle it out for the starting gig.  

 

Would the Cowboys really be any worse off with a combo of Cam and Dalton at QB than with Dak and Dalton?  I don't think so personally, and honestly, given the way this team has underachieved in Daks best seasons, there is a case to be made they could be better.   I mean Cam is a former MVP and taken a less talented team in the NFC to the SB.  

 

If you are getting 2015 Cam sign me up. But the rest of his career Cam is a similar level to Dak. I would be more inclined to say you have seen Cam's best ever year. Dak's is yet to come.

 

EDIT: and I will say this too.... Cam benefitted that year from a Sean McDermott defense. Give Dak last year a McDermott defense and the Cowboys make a run. Even with Garrett as HC.

Edited May 22, 2020 by GunnerBill

[Billl]

16 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

How much better are the Cowboys with Dak Prescott at QB then they are with Andy Dalton?   Prescott doesn't sign the deal, pull it off the table,  and trade him, and let Dalton be your starter this year.  He plays well, sign him for 2-3 more years.  He plays lousy, (which he never has) draft or sign someone else next year.  

 

Thats a big contract for a good but certainly not great QB. (Prescott)  Good defenses will stymie him all day long.  

When has that strategy ever worked?

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He just wants another crack at FA as soon as he can get it. The NBA guys are doing this every year. They sign a 1+1 deal and then when the cap increases they opt out and sign a new deal. Dak will be 30 (I think) at the end of a 4 year deal. Basically he will become a FA again when he’s Andrew Luck’s age. For some perspective Stafford is 32. Dalton is 33. Dak is playing the long game (as he should). 

 

wasn't disagreeing.  But if its this deal or nothing, I'd take this deal.  Ideally he can get it to 4, or with a player option for year 5.  But if it's this or nothing, I'm taking this.  He'll be 31 at the end of a 5 year deal, and Dallas offense will enable him to be very productive.  

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

You have to remember that the Redskins were low-balling the contract for Cousins.  Cowboys have offered a fair contract IMO.

 

The dispute on the Cowboys contract is length. Dak wants 4 years, they want 5. That is the dispute. He says okay if you want 5 I wanna be paid what I will be worth that 5th year. 

[RyanC883]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The dispute on the Cowboys contract is length. Dak wants 4 years, they want 5. That is the dispute. He says okay if you want 5 I wanna be paid what I will be worth that 5th year. 

 

the overall question is what will he be worth that 5th year?  Dak is saying I'm going to be worth more because I will produce, Dallas is saying you'll be worth X, even if you do produce.  Why not make the 5th year incentive based on a combo of individual stats and team performance?  

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The dispute on the Cowboys contract is length. Dak wants 4 years, they want 5. That is the dispute. He says okay if you want 5 I wanna be paid what I will be worth that 5th year. 

 

I know that.  He got an offer and he can decide if he wants it or to keep negotiating.

[FireChans]

24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Dak is NOT worth it.  Period.  Sorry only a few QB's are worth this kind of money, and those are the QB's that can CARRY your franchise to success despite the roster.  Dak has NOT carried them to success with a loaded roster that includes one of the best OL in football protecting him, top 2 RB in the NFL, a $100M WR, and plenty of weapons to spread the ball around to go along with a pretty good defense. 

 

You want to argue in the modern NFL that QB's just get paid and that is just what you have to do, then fine, I wont argue with that.  But Dallas has underachieved, and not even made playoffs in Dak's best years with this talented roster.  And when I look at paying a QB this amount, I need to see the success on the field in the W/L column, especially with this roster.  Guys like Wilson, Mahomes, Brady, Brees, Rodgers...list stops there...at who has played at a level that earns this kind of a payday for me.  

 

If I am Dallas, I look at my options...after already over paying an over rated WR in Cooper, over paying for a RB (not based on talent, Zekes talent matches the contract, just saying in todays NFL you don't need to invest so much at the RB position and so far no team doing so has won a SB either)...to go out and over pay a QB who has consistently underachieved with a talented roster by making him the highest paid in history.  

 

OR...

 

DONT pay Dak and sign Cam Newton, former NFL MVP who took a less talented overall team to the SB and a near win in Carolina than what Dallas can field around him right now.  And Cam would cost WAY less and could probably be an even friendlier team deal.  Cam would take a discount to go start for the Cowboys, they would be a strong SB contender immediately still like they are now.  

 

Who is better...Dak or Cam...well health wise, Dak is more stable.  But outside of that...you can make a case for either guy as the better QB...why, because its probably negligible in terms of ranking them.  Neither could be argued to be head and shoulders above the other.  Yet you could get Cam for a LOT less financial risk.  Dak obviously has health and youth on his side, but Cam is only 32 and could still feasibly play at a high level for several more seasons and keep the Cowboys a perennial SB contender as well.  

 

TO BE CLEAR:  I am not ADVOCATING the Cowboys ditch Dak and sign Cam.  I am just pointing out while your point about building around a new QB now would be too risky given the level of talent on the roster is a good one...there is also a rare opportunity where a "new" QB is available that just happens to be a former MVP and SB participant who is available, healthy and only 32 that could come in and do a similar, or possibly better job than Dak has done with this team for a lot less financial risk.    

 

I fully expect Dak to stay in Dallas and not sign Cam...but at the end of the day, if Cowboys invest this much in Dak, they have massive contracts invested in:

• Overpaid QB who is delivering the success his contracts indicates he has.
• Overpaid WR who is not only over paid, but over rated as he puts up a few big games a year to pad season total stats and then disappears like 70% of the other games and in big moments...not to mention, has a history of the doppsies.
• Overpaid RB...not in terms of talent, Zeke is a beast...in terms of money allocation to this one position.  I can't think of a single team that has had a RB that was top 3 paid in the league that has won a SB in the last 10 years.  Its just not a position that you NEED to invest this amount in.  I get it, Zeke is special, but its a lot when you also have these other Dak and Cooper contracts.

This is why I am not high on the Cowboys potential as a "dynasty" in that other thread.  I think the combo of the Zeke, Cooper and eventual Dak contracts will become an issue in the not too distant future personally.  Especially if they are not regularly reaching at least the NFCC game.  

 

Wait what? So you provide another (bad) option outside of paying Dak, say that you don’t even AGREE with this option and that’s supposed to be proof there’s another good option?

 

If you want to argue that signing Cam is a reasonable option, you can’t say you wouldn’t do it! The Dallas Cowboys could trade for Jake Fromm and start him, is that a good option? 

 

Good grief. Paying Dak is the only option. Every other avenue is silly. Good teams and average teams pay their QB’s. Bad teams let QB’s walk or never get QB’s and languish in obscurity.

 

How do Bills fans not see this?? Do you remember bringing in Matt Cassell and Tyrod Taylor in for a QB competition? DO YOU NOT REMEMBER WHAT THAT WAS LIKE FOR TWO DECADES?

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

the overall question is what will he be worth that 5th year?  Dak is saying I'm going to be worth more because I will produce, Dallas is saying you'll be worth X, even if you do produce.  Why not make the 5th year incentive based on a combo of individual stats and team performance?  

 

I get that but none of us know whether that conversation is being had or not. I think ultimately they will sign Dak.

[HappyDays]

38 minutes ago, Billl said:

That roster outscored it’s opponents by over 100 points.  That they went only 8-8 is part terrible coaching and part bad luck.  That’s the point differential of an 11-5 team.

 

A good example of this and why it didn't matter was their final 2 games of the season. They came into the Philly game at 7-7. Philly was the same. It was absolutely a must win game to get into the playoffs. They lost 17-9. Then in week 17 they won a meaningless game against the Redskins 47-16. Their point differential in those 2 games was +23. That's the story of Dak Prescott and the Cowboys last year. When they won, they won big. Great stat padding team. But there were too many important games that the offense flubbed.

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Exactly. The Redskins said "we don't agree with the NFL market we are gonna opt out and go our own way. Stop the world I want to get off" Was a stupid decision. If Kirk Cousin and Dak Prescott level guys were easy to come by then fair enough. But Bills fans more than almost any should know they are not. 

 

Really?  How can anyone say its a stupid decision?  With all that money Minny spent on Kirk, how are they better off than what a journeyman did with essentially the same roster?  Keenum didn't even have the benefit of an explosive 1000 yard rusher like Dalvin as he was knocked out for the season in his first game while Dalvin was a major weapon for Kirk.  

 

Case Keenum 2017:  98.3 Rating - 3,547 yards, 67.6%, 22 TD, 7 INT - Minny Record:  13-3, 1-1 postseason record and reached NFCC game.

Kirk Cousins 2019:  107.4 Rating - 3603 yards, 69.1%, 26 TD, 6 INT - Minny Record:  10-6, 1-1 postseason record, lost in 2nd round, did not reach NFCC.

 

Kirk has barely done more than the mediocre QB's before him in Minnesota did despite better overall weapons.

 

Now look at Redskins:  They were were no where near close to truly contending for a SB.  So they had to either:

• A) Invest top money in a mid tier QB that would keep their ceiling lower for years to come...or... 
• B) Not pay him and rebuild the roster and try to build a perennial powerhouse, something Kirk was never going to get them too.

If anything, Kirk cousins has proven the Redskins right in not paying him some huge some of money.  His stats are almost the same as Keenums were and yet Keenum won more games and went further in the postseason.  And Keenum isnt very good. 

 

I side with Redskins on this one...good move not to over pay a guy who was not the guy who was going to get you over the top.  I only care about Super Bowls...and nothing about Kirks resume screams he is the guy to get you to a SB.  Is he a good QB, sure, but he's in that borderline 2nd to 3rd tier of guys, middle of the pack.  Thats not who I hand out mega money too.

 

DISCLAIMER:  I HIGHLY respect Kirk and his business savvy.  Few players have managed their financial career to be able to maximize it to the highest degree the way he has.  Sure, guys get paid you deserve it, but he has managed to extract substantially more money above his level of play better than anyone I can really think of.  So big kudos to him, and mad respect for how he did it.  Still not worth the money IMO, but I love that he got paid the way he did.  

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

A good example of this and why it didn't matter was their final 2 games of the season. They came into the Philly game at 7-7. Philly was the same. It was absolutely a must win game to get into the playoffs. They lost 17-9. Then in week 17 they won a meaningless game against the Redskins 47-16. Their point differential in those 2 games was +23. That's the story of Dak Prescott and the Cowboys last year. When they won, they won big. Great stat padding team. But there were too many important games that the offense flubbed.

 

That the coaching flubbed was my interpretation. Dak was carving the Vikings up and then inside the 10 they gave it to Zeke 3 times. Zeke got them in range vs the Jets then suddenly they called 3 passes. It was coaching that couldn't get out of its own way.

[y2zipper]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

They could sign Cam Newton with Dalton as the backup.  Or let them battle it out for the starting gig.  

 

Would the Cowboys really be any worse off with a combo of Cam and Dalton at QB than with Dak and Dalton?  I don't think so personally, and honestly, given the way this team has underachieved in Daks best seasons, there is a case to be made they could be better.   I mean Cam is a former MVP and taken a less talented team in the NFC to the SB.  

 

Dalton and Newton aren't NFL starters at this point. Those two players haven't been above-average quarterbacks for 5 years and only did so for one season each. I don't understand what people are looking at when they think Dalton or Newton can play. They can't. The NFL has also chosen the likes of Nick Foles, Stidham, Hoyer, and Fromm over these two.

 

Tennessee reset the market already when they gave Tannehill 29 per, and the market's bi-modal. I'd argue on ability that Prescott is 6 million a year better than him and Prescott is 5 years younger. Prescott is also at least a decade younger than Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben, and is 5 years younger than Wilson. The deal really pays off in the NFC in 2-3 years if it gets done. The impact of the pandemic and what happens if the cap decreases is pretty interesting, but I don't the Cowboys' issues have to do with Prescott or his play.

 

The potential cap issue for Dallas is that they probably have too much money tied up in Elliott, especially considering that Pollard outproduced him at RB last season and Prescott's production doesn't change with Elliott on or off the field. That'd be the player I'd look to to fix the cap issues.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Really?  How can anyone say its a stupid decision?  With all that money Minny spent on Kirk, how are they better off than what a journeyman did with essentially the same roster?  Keenum didn't even have the benefit of an explosive 1000 yard rusher like Dalvin as he was knocked out for the season in his first game while Dalvin was a major weapon for Kirk.  

 

Case Keenum 2017:  98.3 Rating - 3,547 yards, 67.6%, 22 TD, 7 INT - Minny Record:  13-3, 1-1 postseason record and reached NFCC game.

Kirk Cousins 2019:  107.4 Rating - 3603 yards, 69.1%, 26 TD, 6 INT - Minny Record:  10-6, 1-1 postseason record, lost in 2nd round, did not reach NFCC.

 

Kirk has barely done more than the mediocre QB's before him in Minnesota did despite better overall weapons.

 

Now look at Redskins:  They were were no where near close to truly contending for a SB.  So they had to either:

• A) Invest top money in a mid tier QB that would keep their ceiling lower for years to come...or... 
• B) Not pay him and rebuild the roster and try to build a perennial powerhouse, something Kirk was never going to get them too.

If anything, Kirk cousins has proven the Redskins right in not paying him some huge some of money.  His stats are almost the same as Keenums were and yet Keenum won more games and went further in the postseason.  And Keenum isnt very good. 

 

I side with Redskins on this one...good move not to over pay a guy who was not the guy who was going to get you over the top.  I only care about Super Bowls...and nothing about Kirks resume screams he is the guy to get you to a SB.  Is he a good QB, sure, but he's in that borderline 2nd to 3rd tier of guys, middle of the pack.  Thats not who I hand out mega money too.

 

DISCLAIMER:  I HIGHLY respect Kirk and his business savvy.  Few players have managed their financial career to be able to maximize it to the highest degree the way he has.  Sure, guys get paid you deserve it, but he has managed to extract substantially more money above his level of play better than anyone I can really think of.  So big kudos to him, and mad respect for how he did it.  Still not worth the money IMO, but I love that he got paid the way he did.  

 

The Redskins have been a joke since Kirk walked out of the door. It was an awful call. For it to be any different they need at the very least to have a winning season in the next two years. If they don't then the length of time they could have signed Kirk for they will have gone under .500 every year. 

[Alphadawg7]

23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If you are getting 2015 Cam sign me up. But the rest of his career Cam is a similar level to Dak. I would be more inclined to say you have seen Cam's best ever year. Dak's is yet to come.

 

EDIT: and I will say this too.... Cam benefitted that year from a Sean McDermott defense. Give Dak last year a McDermott defense and the Cowboys make a run. Even with Garrett as HC.

 

Im not advocating Cam today is better than Dak today...I am advocating, regardless who one lists as better, the difference is negligible.  Cam in 2015 all day over anything Dak has done of course.

 

And with Dalton already there who came in willing to accept a backup role, you got great insurance against the health risks of Cam.  Because if I am being honest, I do not think the Cowboys are much worse with Dalton over Dak as it is.  Dalton never had a roster this talented to work with and I think he could be quite good for them too.  So if Cam's body betrayed him, you still have a long time quality starter in Dalton that can come in and likely play well himself.  

 

2 minutes ago, y2zipper said:

 

Dalton and Newton aren't NFL starters at this point. Those two players haven't been above-average quarterbacks for 5 years and only did so for one season each. I don't understand what people are looking at when they think Dalton or Newton can play. They can't. The NFL has also chosen the likes of Nick Foles, Stidham, Hoyer, and Fromm over these two.

 

Tennessee reset the market already when they gave Tannehill 29 per, and the market's bi-modal. I'd argue on ability that Prescott is 6 million a year better than him and Prescott is 5 years younger. Prescott is also at least a decade younger than Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben, and is 5 years younger than Wilson. The deal really pays off in the NFC in 2-3 years if it gets done. The impact of the pandemic and what happens if the cap decreases is pretty interesting, but I don't the Cowboys' issues have to do with Prescott or his play.

 

The potential cap issue for Dallas is that they probably have too much money tied up in Elliott, especially considering that Pollard outproduced him at RB last season and Prescott's production doesn't change with Elliott on or off the field. That'd be the player I'd look to to fix the cap issues.

 

I highly, but respectfully, disagree about neither being capable of being good starters still.  

Edited May 22, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[Kirby Jackson]

38 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

How much better are the Cowboys with Dak Prescott at QB then they are with Andy Dalton?   Prescott doesn't sign the deal, pull it off the table,  and trade him, and let Dalton be your starter this year.  He plays well, sign him for 2-3 more years.  He plays lousy, (which he never has) draft or sign someone else next year.  

 

Thats a big contract for a good but certainly not great QB. (Prescott)  Good defenses will stymie him all day long.  

The Cowboys outscored their opponents by 113 points last year!!