Mr. WEO Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, JohnC said: Any complaint made that someone without consent grabbed your sausage on a flight absolutely should and would get written up! And especially if the staff had to respond by moving people. With respect to your question of would the documenting of the incident forestall the filing of a lawsuit, don't get silly. Of course it wouldn't have. People do what they want to do. What it would have done is officially note how they responded to the incident. And in this case it certainly have been helpful in responding to maybe a baseless or not lawsuit. The documenting of the incident would have better protected the interest of the airline and staff, not hurt it. You don't think that in a hospital setting if a patient made a complaint about an inappropriate touching by another patient or staff member that the incident wouldn't be documented? You don't think that in a school setting if a student made a complaint about an inappropriate touching by another student or staff member it wouldn't be documented? What you don't understand is that your informal and incomplete response (not documenting) to this type of incident makes the company and staff more legally vulnerable. Flight crew move passengers for reasons other than alleged sausage grabbing. The bar is lower than that. But once he mentioned for the first and only time that she touched his junk (that's when he got up and out of his seat to get the Flight Attendant), the crew moved the passenger right then. The fact that there is a lawsuit with no formal complaint filed by the plaintiffs shows you clearly that there is no report by the crew that would have changed anything here. They are suing for what happened on the plane (claiming they were ignored), not what happened after they landed. What is the "legal" exposure in this very case for the lack of a "write up"? Be specific. And while you're focusing on the "absolute" necessity of filing reports in a case such as this, why didn't the victims report a crime to the authorities? Wouldn't that have helped the legitimacy of their lawsuit filed 3 month later? If a patient made a complaint regarding another patient or visitor in the hospital, the staff doesn't run to right a report, they call security. Security is the authority in the hospital charged with dealing with this (not the nurses). Security does the questioning and reporting and call the cops if necessary. So, since no criminal complaint was filed, no criminal charges were made and we've already agreed that a "formal crew report" would not have staved off this lawsuit....what on earth is the value of such a report? The crew will easily be able to describe their usual protocols and how they followed them and that they addressed this incident appropriately. The plaintiff's team will be able to ask anything they want about "reports' etc. Defense attorney will ask plaintiff a few things: "Did you dile a police report after your assualt?" and "After this woman first laid a hand on you, why didn't you just ask to be moved to another empty seat/row?" Jury would want to know the answers to those questions I bet. Edited May 24, 2020 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Flight crew move passengers for reasons other than alleged sausage grabbing. The bar is lower than that. But once he mentioned for the first and only time that she touched his junk (that's when he got up and out of his seat to get the Flight Attendant), the crew moved the passenger right then. The fact that there is a lawsuit with no formal complaint filed by the plaintiffs shows you clearly that there is no report by the crew that would have changed anything here. They are suing for what happened on the plane (claiming they were ignored), not what happened after they landed. What is the "legal" exposure in this very case for the lack of a "write up"? Be specific. And while you're focusing on the "absolute" necessity of filing reports in a case such as this, why didn't the victims report a crime to the authorities? Wouldn't that have helped the legitimacy of their lawsuit filed 3 month later? If a patient made a complaint regarding another patient or visitor in the hospital, the staff doesn't run to right a report, they call security. Security is the authority in the hospital charged with dealing with this (not the nurses). Security does the questioning and reporting and call the cops if necessary. So, since no criminal complaint was filed, no criminal charges were made and we've already agreed that a "formal crew report" would not have staved off this lawsuit....what on earth is the value of such a report? The crew will easily be able to describe their usual protocols and how they followed them and that they addressed this incident appropriately. The plaintiff's team will be able to ask anything they want about "reports' etc. Defense attorney will ask plaintiff a few things: "Did you dile a police report after your assualt?" and "After this woman first laid a hand on you, why didn't you just ask to be moved to another empty seat/row?" Jury would want to know the answers to those questions I bet. If the security was called in to respond of an "inappropriate" contact complaint they would make a report that included the patient's statement. And they would talk to the staff and others who were involved with the patient. If in this circumstance they (the responding security staff) didn't record some form of an incident report that included the complainant's statement and statement of others then they should be fired for malfeasance, nonfeasance, negligence and gross incompetence. As far as staving off a lawsuit I don't understand your point. Who said that it would? As I said in prior comments you can't control how the parties respond after the fact with respect to their legal options. That is obviously out of your control. What you can do is exercise good judgment when dealing with the issue at hand. And without question a report should have been made about this incident on the airplane. The both of us are talking past one another and not adding much to the discussion. We are at the stage of going in nonproductive circles. There isn't much that I can add to what I have stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, JohnC said: If the security was called in to respond of an "inappropriate" contact complaint they would make a report that included the patient's statement. And they would talk to the staff and others who were involved with the patient. If in this circumstance they (the responding security staff) didn't record some form of an incident report that included the complainant's statement and statement of others then they should be fired for malfeasance, nonfeasance, negligence and gross incompetence. As far as staving off a lawsuit I don't understand your point. Who said that it would? As I said in prior comments you can't control how the parties respond after the fact with respect to their legal options. That is obviously out of your control. What you can do is exercise good judgment when dealing with the issue at hand. And without question a report should have been made about this incident on the airplane. The both of us are talking past one another and not adding much to the discussion. We are at the stage of going in nonproductive circles. There isn't much that I can add to what I have stated. Ridiculous---and not even the basis for the lawsuit. You don't understand the meaning of mal or nonfeasance. The failure to act must result in harm. The staff clearly acted--twice. Failure "write a report" produced no harm. Lame effort there, counselor. Also, they were not "responding security staff" (laughable) and they were not required to do what you demand they do. Filing a report would not have indemnified the employees, or the company in any way. Nor would it make a difference to the plaintiffs, who didn't seek the law in this crime. Anyway, your argument is defeated by the plaintiff's themselves, who neither demanded such a report, nor did they seek to give anyone a statement. Your perseveration on the concept of a useless, meaningless report is bizarre, given what we know of this suit. Here's the report: "gentleman in seat 8E said he was being harrassed by passenger 8F, who had been drinking and taking pills per her admission. Passenger 8F was verbally warned to cease harrassment. Passenger 8E subsequently alerted staff passenger 8F touched him inappropriately. Staff moved Passenger 8F to another row/seat." That's what you clamor for? Harm avoided? All moral requirements met? Jobs saved? Corporate exposure minimized? You should consider not adding, but subtracting from what you have stated. Edited May 25, 2020 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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