Josh Allen Tops NFL.com's dark horse MVP List

[Billzfan37]

52 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

 

Hes not entirely wrong.

 

I like Allens makeup, I like the way he carries himself.

He still has to prove he can be the starting QB for this team long term, let alone be in the conversation for MVP.

 

This is the make or break year for Allen, IMO.

I expect to see a hell of a lot of improvement. There are no more excuses for him.

The issue is that we just don't know if he's ever going to be an accurate (enough) thrower of the football.  We've all golfed with those same guys for years who no matter what they do - they just can't stop slicing and they don't ever break through their ceiling.  Allen could have EVERYTHING else but simply lack the coordination and touch to deliver the ball where it's supposed to be.  He has all the other intangibles - he's beloved in the locker room, he clearly has mastered dealing with the media and saying the right things, and he's super competitive and fiery.  He has a way of exuding a lot of confidence without sounding like a douche (opposite of Cam Newton) - and he is a dream with the reporters.  He takes responsibility and doesn't assign blame to his teammates and coaching staff.  He's not flashy or materialistic, so that blue collar work ethic/appeal is always there.  Super strong arm - but has those head scratcher throws occasionally where he airmails a target by 15 yards.  

 

The thing that has Bills fans all fired up and optimistic is that he's really still a baby in his overall development.  He never had the experience of being Baker Mayfield at Oklahoma with all that NFL talent.  If he can improve his accuracy only marginally, he could win a few SuperBowls/MVPs.

 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think dark horse is right for MVP. I consider Allen very much a long shot. I do think he has a very real chance to be a Pro Bowl selection this year though (and not as the 74th alternate but as an actual bona fide Pro Bowler). I just think for MVP not only would Allen have to have a phenomenal year but some of the other bigger names would have to disappoint a little.

See I think that he has a pretty clear path because MVP is often about the “narrative.” It’s different than “OPOY” which he has a much worse shot at. If the lowly Bills dethrone the mighty Patriots and go like 12-4 they will be the y’all of the league. If that happens he will be an MVP favorite. I think that scenario is VERY possible. 
 

He will have to have the numbers that support it but something like 4,000 yards and 45 total TDs and he will be right there. That’s basically Cam’s MVP year. It’s not a likely outcome but that scenario is absolutely possible.

 

Also, no surprise to see him atop of Adam Schein’s list. Schein is pretty much the opposite of PFF when it comes to Allen and the Bills. He believes that they are way better than they are. He goes out of his way to pump them up.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

See I think that he has a pretty clear path because MVP is often about the “narrative.” It’s different than “OPOY” which he has a much worse shot at. If the lowly Bills dethrone the mighty Patriots and go like 12-4 they will be the y’all of the league. If that happens he will be an MVP favorite. I think that scenario is VERY possible. 
 

He will have to have the numbers that support it but something like 4,000 yards and 45 total TDs and he will be right there. That’s basically Cam’s MVP year. It’s not a likely outcome but that scenario is absolutely possible.

 

Also, no surprise to see him atop of Adam Schein’s list. Schein is pretty much the opposite of PFF when it comes to Allen and the Bills. He believes that they are way better than they are. He goes out of his way to pump them up.

 

I don't think it is likely. Not impossible. But not likely. Mahomes will win MVP in my opinion. I actually think the Chiefs are going to repeat. After 2020 I see it getting tougher for Kansas City but I think they repeat and I think Mahomes plays at his 2018 best. If he does that he is MVP, without doubt.

[Gugny]

6 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Who are you, what have you done with bangarang, where am I?

 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think it is likely. Not impossible. But not likely. Mahomes will win MVP in my opinion. I actually think the Chiefs are going to repeat. After 2020 I see it getting tougher for Kansas City but I think they repeat and I think Mahomes plays at his 2018 best. If he does that he is MVP, without doubt.

He’s certainly the favorite. I guess my point is that I would think Josh is a top 10(ish) MVP candidate. That doesn’t mean that he’s a top 10 player or even top 10 QB (yet). It just means that he has a top 10 path to the MVP. The situation is set up well for him.

 

On a side note, I feel the same way with McDermott and coach of the year. I think that I got him at +2500 and I LOVE that bet. He has a very clear path there too. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He’s certainly the favorite. I guess my point is that I would think Josh is a top 10(ish) MVP candidate. That doesn’t mean that he’s a top 10 player or even top 10 QB (yet). It just means that he has a top 10 path to the MVP. The situation is set up well for him.

 

On a side note, I feel the same way with McDermott and coach of the year. I think that I got him at +2500 and I LOVE that bet. He has a very clear path there too. 

 

McDermott winning coach of the year for coaching the Bills to a 12-4 is way more likely, way, way more likely in my opinion than Josh winning MVP in 2020. It isn't impossible for him to win it. But I wouldn't go top 10 candidate. He is very much a long shot for me.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

McDermott winning coach of the year for coaching the Bills to a 12-4 is way more likely, way, way more likely in my opinion than Josh winning MVP in 2020. It isn't impossible for him to win it. But I wouldn't go top 10 candidate. He is very much a long shot for me.

Just out of curiosity who would be the 10 (or more that you have above him)? I guess for me I can’t see a guy like McCaffrey being the MVP because his team will stink. FWIW, Josh is +1800 currently on Bovada which is tied with Rodgers and Brees.
 

I do agree McDermott is a way better bet. I put a few bucks on Josh months ago at like +6600 or something like that. I’m not interested at +1800

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Just out of curiosity who would be the 10 (or more that you have above him)? I guess for me I can’t see a guy like McCaffrey being the MVP because his team will stink. FWIW, Josh is +1800 currently on Bovada which is tied with Rodgers and Brees.
 

I do agree McDermott is a way better bet. I put a few bucks on Josh months ago at like +6600 or something like that. I’m not interested at +1800

 

Patrick Mahomes

Lamar Jackson

Russell Wilson

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Deshaun Watson

Baker Mayfield

Dak Prescott

Carson Wentz

 

All for a start. I just think it is hard to win an MVP as a Buffalo Bills Quarterback. He would have to be head and shoulders the obvious guy to do it. Which wouldn't just mean Josh putting up those sorts of numbers you mentioned... but nobody on that list matching him.

[FireChans]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Patrick Mahomes

Lamar Jackson

Russell Wilson

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Deshaun Watson

Baker Mayfield

Dak Prescott

Carson Wentz

 

All for a start. I just think it is hard to win an MVP as a Buffalo Bills Quarterback. He would have to be head and shoulders the obvious guy to do it. Which wouldn't just mean Josh putting up those sorts of numbers you mentioned... but nobody on that list matching him.

Add Daniel Jones if the Giants won the NFC East convincingly. Really if anyone in that division plays really well and wins the division they have a good shot, IMO. 

[Bangarang]

6 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Who are you, what have you done with bangarang, where am I?

If you bet on all the outcomes you’re never wrong. 

[Kirby Jackson]

27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Patrick Mahomes

Lamar Jackson

Russell Wilson

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Deshaun Watson

Baker Mayfield

Dak Prescott

Carson Wentz

 

All for a start. I just think it is hard to win an MVP as a Buffalo Bills Quarterback. He would have to be head and shoulders the obvious guy to do it. Which wouldn't just mean Josh putting up those sorts of numbers you mentioned... but nobody on that list matching him.

FWIW, he’s ahead of Wentz, Watson and Mayfield. He’s tied with Rodgers and Brees. He’s behind Mahomes, Jackson, Brady, Wilson, Kyler Murray and Dak (in that order). Baker is +4000 (he’s a nice bet at that number).

 

I do feel almost the exact opposite about it being hard as the Bills QB. If anything that’s an advantage to Josh. The narrative of ending the Pats reign will be the story of the year in the NFL. That will inflate Josh’s case (as it will for McDermott). It’s different than OPOY which he has virtually no chance at imo. Stats are less important in an MVP case (although they will still need to be good).
 

I don’t know if it’s different in Europe but there is a constant debate here of “Most Valuable” vs. “Best.” Basically, the league’s have all swung towards them being 2 different things (with the exception of Mike Trout). Again, I’m not saying that it’s likely but the “Bills story” is potentially compelling.

25 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Add Daniel Jones if the Giants won the NFC East convincingly. Really if anyone in that division plays really well and wins the division they have a good shot, IMO. 

I like that call too. The same goes for Drew Lock.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[FireChans]

25 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

FWIW, he’s ahead of Wentz, Watson and Mayfield. He’s tied with Rodgers and Brees. He’s behind Mahomes, Jackson, Brady, Wilson, Kyler Murray and Dak (in that order). Baker is +4000 (he’s a nice bet at that number).

 

I do feel almost the exact opposite about it being hard as the Bills QB. If anything that’s an advantage to Josh. The narrative of ending the Pats reign will be the story of the year in the NFL. That will inflate Josh’s case (as it will for McDermott). It’s different than OPOY which he has virtually no chance at imo. Stats are less important in an MVP case (although they will still need to be good).
 

I don’t know if it’s different in Europe but there is a constant debate here of “Most Valuable” vs. “Best.” Basically, the league’s have all swung towards them being 2 different things (with the exception of Mike Trout). Again, I’m not saying that it’s likely but the “Bills story” is potentially compelling.

I like that call too. The same goes for Drew Lock.

The “story” is less relevant than you make it seem. 

 

Since 2005, the MVP OVERWHELMIGLY is on the team that is basically the best or second best offense in the NFL. Of the 15 winners, Peyton x2 and AP were the only winners who weren’t on teams with arguable #1 offenses. The 4 of the last 5 winners were on the #1 offense in points. The exception was Brady, whose offense was #2 in points and #1 in yards. The 5 prior to that again were 4/5 #1  in points except for AP who put up one of the best seasons in NFL history and dragged his team to the postseason. Even when Shaun Alexander and LT won it, their teams were #1 in points.

 

This Bills team is a long shot for #1 in the NFL in points. We are not going to be lighting teams up, that’s not our team philosophy or personnel or coaching style. 

 

For Josh to have a shot at MVP, we would basically have to have the best record in the NFL. Which is possible I guess but again, unlikely.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

The “story” is less relevant than you make it seem. 

 

Since 2005, the MVP OVERWHELMIGLY is on the team that is basically the best or second best offense in the NFL. Of the 15 winners, Peyton x2 and AP were the only winners who weren’t on teams with arguable #1 offenses. The 4 of the last 5 winners were on the #1 offense in points. The exception was Brady, whose offense was #2 in points and #1 in yards. The 5 prior to that again were 4/5 #1  in points except for AP who put up one of the best seasons in NFL history and dragged his team to the postseason. Even when Shaun Alexander and LT won it, their teams were #1 in points.

 

This Bills team is a long shot for #1 in the NFL in points. We are not going to be lighting teams up, that’s not our team philosophy or personnel or coaching style. 

 

For Josh to have a shot at MVP, we would basically have to have the best record in the NFL. Which is possible I guess but again, unlikely.

Look at those team’s records too. That’s my point. All of those team’s finished with great records. If the Bills are 12-4 (as an example) Allen will be in the MVP conversation.

[Gambit]

4 hours ago, CountDorkula said:

 

Hes not entirely wrong.

 

I like Allens makeup, I like the way he carries himself.

He still has to prove he can be the starting QB for this team long term, let alone be in the conversation for MVP.

 

This is the make or break year for Allen, IMO.

I expect to see a hell of a lot of improvement. There are no more excuses for him.

Oh I'm not denying that some people do over react to how good he truly is. I for one do agree that he needs to definitely keep improving. Especially learn to connect on the deep throws. I just don't think he's nearly as bad as others think he is.

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Look at those team’s records too. That’s my point. All of those team’s finished with great records. If the Bills are 12-4 (as an example) Allen will be in the MVP conversation.

Converstion maybe, but he won’t win. The history of the league tells us this. It will be the team with the #1 offense. Whether that’s LJ, or Mahomes or Brady.

 

Even 12 wins may not be enough. 10 of the MVP winners in the last 15 years won more than 12 games.

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The “story” is less relevant than you make it seem. 

 

Since 2005, the MVP OVERWHELMIGLY is on the team that is basically the best or second best offense in the NFL. Of the 15 winners, Peyton x2 and AP were the only winners who weren’t on teams with arguable #1 offenses. The 4 of the last 5 winners were on the #1 offense in points. The exception was Brady, whose offense was #2 in points and #1 in yards. The 5 prior to that again were 4/5 #1  in points except for AP who put up one of the best seasons in NFL history and dragged his team to the postseason. Even when Shaun Alexander and LT won it, their teams were #1 in points.

 

This Bills team is a long shot for #1 in the NFL in points. We are not going to be lighting teams up, that’s not our team philosophy or personnel or coaching style. 

 

For Josh to have a shot at MVP, we would basically have to have the best record in the NFL. Which is possible I guess but again, unlikely.

 

Agree with all this. 

 

I don't think story trumps production. 

[TwistofFate]

There's no doubt he's a darkhorse candidate. 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Converstion maybe, but he won’t win. The history of the league tells us this. It will be the team with the #1 offense. Whether that’s LJ, or Mahomes or Brady.

 

Even 12 wins may not be enough. 10 of the MVP winners in the last 15 years won more than 12 games.

That’s insane!! I guess that’s the basis for my argument but I don’t think that the Bills can win more than 11 with this schedule. Basically though, the MVP is the QB of a really good team. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s insane!! I guess that’s the basis for my argument but I don’t think that the Bills can win more than 11 with this schedule. Basically though, the MVP is the QB of a really good team. 

 

A really good team..... but also a really good offense. This team in 2020 will still be led by its defense. 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

FWIW, he’s ahead of Wentz, Watson and Mayfield. He’s tied with Rodgers and Brees. He’s behind Mahomes, Jackson, Brady, Wilson, Kyler Murray and Dak (in that order). Baker is +4000 (he’s a nice bet at that number).

 

I do feel almost the exact opposite about it being hard as the Bills QB. If anything that’s an advantage to Josh. The narrative of ending the Pats reign will be the story of the year in the NFL. That will inflate Josh’s case (as it will for McDermott). It’s different than OPOY which he has virtually no chance at imo. Stats are less important in an MVP case (although they will still need to be good).
 

I don’t know if it’s different in Europe but there is a constant debate here of “Most Valuable” vs. “Best.” Basically, the league’s have all swung towards them being 2 different things (with the exception of Mike Trout). Again, I’m not saying that it’s likely but the “Bills story” is potentially compelling.

I like that call too. The same goes for Drew Lock.

Where did this narrative come from that media hates the Bills?  I think we are easily one if the most liked teams in the nfl.  Plenty of big media members love the Bills.  We just have sucked forever.  
 

if the Bills win the AFC East, I also feel Allen will get overrated and too much credit (as all qbs do).  He could have less production than other QBs but be completely hyped up and win the MVP.