Anybody want to go on record about Josh?

[K-9]

Josh Allen will be fitted for a gold jacket five years after his last game. Book it. 
 

He won’t have figured it out until his 4th season, though, so the naysayers will have plenty of ammo until then. 

[eball]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

The raw designation starts to lose its luster if he gets through 16 games this season. 

 

He does that and its 44 games played, 43 started. 

 

 

Raw only counts for so long, you're right, but I certainly think he gets three full seasons before he's "all growns up."

[K-9]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

Raw only counts for so long, you're right, but I certainly think he gets three full seasons before he's "all growns up."

Josh is gonna be an example of the old school axiom of it taking 1,000 attempts before you really have a good gauge. Given his level of inexperience coming in, he’s getting his three years of carrying a clipboard while actually starting. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

17 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Is he trending in the right direction, meaning did he improve from year 1 to year 2, even if he is still in the bottom 1/3 based on chosen metrics?  Are the coaches having an impact?

Agree again.

 

He did improve greatly from Year One to Year Two on his performance. And I’ll say again, I throw out 2018 because he was a rookie and his supporting skill players and offensive line was horrendous. 
 

The key now will be the improvement towards the NFL standard, not just a comparison to the 2018/2019 Allen.

 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

13 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Agree again.

 

He did improve greatly from Year One to Year Two on his performance. And I’ll say again, I throw out 2018 because he was a rookie and his supporting skill players and offensive line was horrendous. 
 

The key now will be the improvement towards the NFL standard, not just a comparison to the 2018/2019 Allen.

 

 

Well, if he was drafted on potential and he is trending in the right direction, hard to fault the fans for being optimistic and for some professional pundits who might feel the same, especially with the addition of more infused talent.  There's a re-energized local and national excitement around the Bills that hasn't been around in a long time, and you can't deny Allen isn't a part of that excitement.   

Edited May 15, 2020 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[Garrett33]

Maybe a stupid question but how do I vote?

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

2 minutes ago, Garrett33 said:

Maybe a stupid question but how do I vote?

 

Go to the top of the page, click "Show Vote Options", and then make your selection.

[Billl]

2 hours ago, Penfield45 said:

 

heart doesn't win you superbowls lol. talent does

 

And Stafford is a far superior passer than Allen. Josh needs to work on his accuracy and start racking up 300+ yard games 

Stafford’s talent hasn’t won any Superbowls either.  It takes both.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

31 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Well, if he was drafted on potential and he is trending in the right direction, hard to fault the fans for being optimistic and for some professional pundits who might feel the same, especially with the addition of more infused talent.  There's a re-energized local and national excitement around the Bills that hasn't been around in a long time, and you can't deny Allen isn't a part of that excitement.   

 

Nobody is denying Allen is a part of the excitement, or that finally there are legitimate expectations for the team. 

 

The only thing I opined was that I am not sure Allen will improve enough to be Top 10. 

 

We have never seen that from him at Wyoming or in the NFL.  

 

That's it. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Straight Hucklebuck

[billsfan89]

I think he makes a moderate improvement in 2020. I can see a 500-600 yard improvement in passing, similar rushing stats (500+ rushing yards and 7+ TD's), 5-6 more passing TD's and a 60% or better completion percentage, and 12 or less turnovers (fumbles and INT's combined.) I think that puts him knocking on the top 10 of QB's in the NFL. That would put him over 4000 yards total, close mid 20's in passing TD's and well over 30 total TD's all with a 60% completion percentage. 

 

Those stats aren't gaudy but Josh's passing stats are going to be deflated (hopefully) by nursing leads late in games and a good rushing attack. In context if Josh put up that kind of season on an 11+ win team the conversation around Josh is that he is a legit QB. I think Josh does have a lot he needs to work on, his short passing game and mid passing game and footwork have come a long way but still needs to add a level of polish to it. His long range passing has to improve significantly and how he processes the game has to improve. He also needs to throw with better anticipation. 

 

In 2020 I think Josh can improve upon some of these aspects but I don't think he is going to get where he needs to be on all of them. And honestly that's not a bad thing, QB's take time to develop unless you are a once in a generation QB. Some of the top QB's in the league take a long time to hit their strides as top 10-5 QB's for a prolonged period of time. Russell Wilson, Big Ben, Tom Brady, Drew Brees and so many other top QB's of the last decade didn't hit their best years until 4-5 years into their starting careers. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

56 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Raw only counts for so long, you're right, but I certainly think he gets three full seasons before he's "all growns up."

 

I agree, and never made the case that he will not get any better from Year 2 Allen. 

 

I just question if he can reliably crack Top 10.

[Figster]

The power forward /QB is powering its way to the forefront IMO. Lamar Jackson is a great example. Is Jackson going to beat you throwing for 300 + yards? Probably not. Make no mistake as an opposing DC, Lamar Jackson can and will beat you with his arm and legs. 

 

So while this may not put Lamar Jackson in the higher echelon of QB's from a passing perspective.

 

Lamar Jackson is one of the hardest QB's in the NFL to defend against in my humble opinion.

[JESSEFEFFER]

I sense we will be having some sort of argument about by which measure do we say he is "Top 10" or whatever.  In fact, to be even having that debate would be a good sign.  It is rare for the starting QB of a regular playoff contenting franchise not to be thought of as a top performer.  That's the way it works. 

 

I think Josh will be at a minimum the equal of Joe Flacco as a passer.  The other offscript, playmaking traits are mostly a bonus beyond what most other QBs offer but do get him in trouble at times as well.  He is working his way up from the bottom and entering 2020 as about #20 or so but trending towards the top.

Edited May 15, 2020 by JESSEFEFFER

[Figster]

26 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

I agree, and never made the case that he will not get any better from Year 2 Allen. 

 

I just question if he can reliably crack Top 10.

Its a good question.  Given the talent Allen now has around him.

 

Its about to be be answered...

[TheyCallMeAndy]

16 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Statically. He's 10x the gamer and leader Newton is. 

I'm catching some weird looks, but seriously. Newton had a shot to dive on a fumble in the Super Bowl and decided not to. Don't think for a second that choice didn't cost him years worth of credibility and respect from his teammates.

[Figster]

58 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

I think he makes a moderate improvement in 2020. I can see a 500-600 yard improvement in passing, similar rushing stats (500+ rushing yards and 7+ TD's), 5-6 more passing TD's and a 60% or better completion percentage, and 12 or less turnovers (fumbles and INT's combined.) I think that puts him knocking on the top 10 of QB's in the NFL. That would put him over 4000 yards total, close mid 20's in passing TD's and well over 30 total TD's all with a 60% completion percentage. 

 

Those stats aren't gaudy but Josh's passing stats are going to be deflated (hopefully) by nursing leads late in games and a good rushing attack. In context if Josh put up that kind of season on an 11+ win team the conversation around Josh is that he is a legit QB. I think Josh does have a lot he needs to work on, his short passing game and mid passing game and footwork have come a long way but still needs to add a level of polish to it. His long range passing has to improve significantly and how he processes the game has to improve. He also needs to throw with better anticipation. 

 

In 2020 I think Josh can improve upon some of these aspects but I don't think he is going to get where he needs to be on all of them. And honestly that's not a bad thing, QB's take time to develop unless you are a once in a generation QB. Some of the top QB's in the league take a long time to hit their strides as top 10-5 QB's for a prolonged period of time. Russell Wilson, Big Ben, Tom Brady, Drew Brees and so many other top QB's of the last decade didn't hit their best years until 4-5 years into their starting careers. 

 Something often overlooked in assessment is Josh Allen hasn't dumped the ball of much to date. Allen also hasn't gone to a TE security blanket perhaps as much as other young signal callers IMO. The types of things that pad the stats, increase completion %, and add up in the passing totals.

 

I think with the talent Buffalo now has at RB its part of Allens game that can and will show a marked improvent this season and may give Josh Allen the 300 yard passing games everyone is looking for IMO.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Figster

[Bss]

I think if Josh can become around average with the deep ball, enough to make the defenders respect it and open up the short to medium range, hes at least an above average, top 16 qb. Needs more work in decision making if he wants to make it to the top 10 

[Don Otreply]

I think the only measure is wins, regular and post season. I think he may very well hit top ten what ever that is. 

[Hampton Josh fan]

6 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

Cam won a Heisman, won a National Championship, was drafted #1 overall, threw for 4,000 yards right away in the NFL, won an MVP. 

 

Josh was never an elite player in lower level college, was drafted on his skill set not his production on the field, and thus far has not shown to be a consistent NFL passer. 

 

I think in Buffalo we overrate the work ethic, the blue collar, the swell guy, and underrate winning and production. Like Buffalo is the only team out there studying their playbooks and working hard.  

 

We also love to declare war on "me-first" guys. Cam was the face of the Panthers for 8-9 seasons. 

 

 

 

Who cares what any of these guys do in college. We're talking about a guy that had some early success and cancerized his career and the trajectory of the franchise by injuries and moreover not being likeable with teammates, management and ultimately the fan base. In two years, Josh has established leadership skills, unselfishness, (he blames himself for losses) and clutch 4th qtr play. Root against him at your own peril. 

[Hampton Josh fan]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

Josh did not have a higher ceiling than Cam did as a prospect.

We had no idea about Cam"s me first, team second mentality. Any time you see a guy in a goofy different outfit in every post game press conference, he's trying to be the story. Josh will be low key and lead by example.