I agree with this philosophy and Bills should absolutely be looking at QBs

[SoTier]

18 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

You seriously think we are going to draft a Hurts, Fromm or Eason, have them play in the preseason and THEN eventually trade them for 1st round picks?  You are joking right??  

 

If we take one of those 3, we are taking them as a fall back if Josh Allen falls flat on his face bigtime this year, which aint going to happen.  We still need offensive playmakers.  I get so frustrated reading some of you posters as well as the local media who seem to think our roster is set to contend for a Super Bowl right now, and all we need is some depth players for the future.  (And with that line of thinking lets draft 5 or 6 defensive guys)  We were what about 24th in the NFL last year in scoring.  And 26th in passing yards.  I would be ecstatic to draft TWO WR's and at least one if not two RB's.  And maybe a TE instead of the 2nd RB.  Our offense was not good.  And all we have done so far is add one big time WR.  And a couple of O lineman in Williams and Boehm who may not make the team   We need more offense.  So when you start talking about drafting QB's relatively high just to flip them down the road, that makes no sense to the goal of winning in the here and now!! 

 

I'm an advocate for the Bills using this draft to improve depth but in my mind that means drafting players on Day 2 who have at least enough talent to become starters in a year or two.  On Day 3, they should be looking for guys who can at least be good role players.   IMO RB, WR, and OL are all needs on offense, but I hope that they go BPA rather than reach because of need.

 

14 hours ago, Manther said:

Favre and Hasselback, Favre and Rodgers.

 

I don't believe you draft QBs to flip them as assets.  That is like purchasing an automobile (a depreciating asset) as an investment and too make money.

 

But, by having a #1 QB in place and continuing to draft QBs gives you the opportunity to have a good back up, potentially have a successor or long term answer.  The ability to develop and evaluate a 2nd QB gives a team more options.  And, if they are decent and not ready to be the successor or long term answer then you move on from them.  IF you can recoup some capital by trading them, you do it.

 

It is just part of the process.

 

Drafting a Day 3 or UDFA QB to be the backup to an established starter also enables a team to stretch their cap space.  Veteran backup QBs can be very expensive, so QBs on rookie contracts are bargains as long as your QB stays healthy -- as the Steelers found out last season.   I think at this point in their building stage, the Bills would be better served putting their draft resources into players who might develop enough to be contributors in the next year or two rather than in a backup QB.   If they want to upgrade from Barkley, then they should look at other FA veterans.

 

14 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Back in the Favre days the Packers had guys like Ty Dettmer, Marc Brunell, Matt Hasselbeck, Aaron Brooks and Rodgers as a backup. All of whom became starters and many they drafted and ended up trading away for higher pick than invested. Heck they also had Kurt Warner in camp but cut him before he ended up with Rams.

 

Back in the early Favre days, the salary cap wasn't the limiting issue it became toward the end of the 90s and since.  There were also fewer teams and more rounds in the draft.  Furthermore, the point that's being missed by the OP and some other posters is any semblance of "flipping QBs" can only happen if the team already has an established top tier QB who's playing well -- and is lucky enough to draft late round QBs who do shine when they get the opportunity.  No team has ever figured out how to pick QB talent that well.

 

[T master]

20 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Time to start getting into the QB flipping Business

 

 

It only makes sense to keep a  younger guy in the pipe line for one of those just incase moments & then there's the thought that another team might find a Brady type prospect which is few to none but it has happened !

 

Like in Jacksonville Minshew aint no Brady but he's a good QB & then there is the kid that filled in for the 49ers Mullens that kid was money !! 

 

It for sure can't hurt ... I'm in !

[ColoradoBills]

If there is a QB they like in the 4th, 5th or early 6th I'm fine with taking him.

The timing could be right.  Rookie takes Webb place this year and replaces Barkley next year.

If that's the plan for a long term backup I can agree with that.  Not a fan of the flipping idea.

Bills could use a long term backup.

 

If not they can hope for a decent UFA next year and move on from Barkley.

[Billl]

A lot of people are missing the boat here and want to act like the only value of the pick is what it can be traded for.  The Bills have the worst backup QB in the league.  The idea would be to improve the backup spot first.  If you can then get a draft haul for him down the line, so much the better.

 

The reality is that only a few coaches/organizations have proven to be developers of QBs.  Andy Reid developed McNabb.  Then he drafted and made Kolb look competent before fleecing the Cardinals.  Then he managed to get the best out of Vick.  Then he turned Alex Smith into a franchise QB.  Then he drafted Mahomes and turned him into the MVP a year later.  If Reid drafts a backup this season, there’s a pretty good chance that someone will want him in a couple years.  Reid has the bandwidth to work with a project QB, as Mahomes is past that part of the process.

 

I don’t see McBeane being able to pull of something like this yet.  They don’t have a reputation of being QB gurus, so teams are less likely to covet the backup QB of a coach who is more of a defensive minded guy.  They are also still working on developing their current project QB, so it’s unlikely that they currently have the ability to take on a new project.  Now if Josh breaks out and becomes a bonafide star, the equation could change.  The Bills could take a late round flyer in 2021 who is heavy on tools but lacking in production and develop him.  If he shows out in preseason or has a couple of nice games in backup duty, QB needy teams may prefer to pay for a 25 year old who has already had a few years to develop and could be ready to go rather than try to take their chances on a 22 year old who may or may not be ready in three years.

[Punching Bag]

21 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

I would fully be on board taking a Hurts, Fromm, Eason etc if they are there in the 4th, develop them, showcase them in Preseason going into the next seasons and flip them in a heart beat.  Take a QB in the 4th, flip him in a couple years for a 1st and more

 

Even insert them in 4th quarter if we are ahead and Josh is taking a beating.  Especially if they are a potential Kordell Stewart who can play WR as well.

[Mark Vader]

Isn't it obvious that our back-up QB should be John Brown?

 

Career statistics: 2/2, 44 yards, 2 TD, QBR 158.3

[Billl]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Assuming Barkley goes into the season as their backup.....if Allen gets hurt for a significant period of time they have botched the QB room yet again.... I’m surprised they haven’t looked for an upgrade. Barkley is trash.

There’s just no way that happens, right?  If it does, it’s absolute malpractice.  Allen misses games pretty much every year and has since high school.  You can’t risk rolling a guy like Barkley out there to win a couple of games and expect to win the division.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

They certainly put a high value on locker room guys and Barkley is one.... but come on the guy isn’t a capable back up in this league... keep him as a third stringer locker room guy. 

 

Barkley is still eating lunch here on TSW off of that Jets game 2 years ago....

[Captain Hindsight]

I bet they gives Davis Webb a long look too. He was a third round pick not too long ago. Was snatched up quickly by the Bills after cuts

[NoSaint]

21 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

I would fully be on board taking a Hurts, Fromm, Eason etc if they are there in the 4th, develop them, showcase them in Preseason going into the next seasons and flip them in a heart beat.  Take a QB in the 4th, flip him in a couple years for a 1st and more

let’s not pretend that’s a normal outcome 

[FireChans]

Just now, NoSaint said:

let’s not pretend that’s a normal outcome 

Forget it Jake. This topic is full of the delusion that 4th round picks that never see playing time are flipped for 1st round picks every offseason.

[GreggTX]

22 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

Agree … but the downside is fickle fans and media.   Everyone loves the young backup prospect.  At least until the real bullets fly. 

 

Who cares about any of that? We do not have a proven QB anyways. We need someone that can compete for the starting job. Besides, this is the most important position in football. It should always be top priority. We should always be looking. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that Beane will stay tied at the hip to Allen and both he and McDermott will sink along with him. McDermott is a good HC, but you have to learn to move on from your mistakes. They did it with KB. Will they do the same with Lotulelei and Josh? In all fairness, I'd give Allen more time, but if he doesn't show at least twice the improvement in 2020 that he showed in 2019, it's time to move on.

[Perry Turtle]

Drafting a QB to develop this season would be a waste of a draft pick.  QBs need reps to develop, and those will be in short supply with the covid-impacted off-season schedule.  Not to mention that Allen is still a young QB, who will need all the reps he can get to continue his development.

 

Give Allen a couple of more years to establish himself with an OC who doesn't change the playbook every season, and then draft a 'development' QB.  Wait until the team is in position to actually give a young QB the reps to develop.

 

Until then, spend the late-rounders on special teams and package players. They will contribute more to the team uring the season than an emergency QB.

 

[Bob in STL]

8 hours ago, Rampage said:

If the starter is performing and winning playoff games, the back-up is a complete and total afterthought in the fans minds. 

True.  We have had very few QB controversies in Bills history.  Probably because we have had so few good QBs.

 

There was Flutie v. Johnson, by far the biggest.

 

There was a time when some fans screamed for Lamonica every time Kemp slipped up.

 

I even recall people thinking that Gary Mairangi might be better than Joe Ferguson.  Of course when he had his chance he proved to be not even close.

 

Over 60 years that is not much … I would not be concerned if they draft another QB (later in the draft) should the board work out that way.  That is not a reflection on Allen either, I think this is his team. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Perry Turtle said:

Drafting a QB to develop this season would be a waste of a draft pick.  QBs need reps to develop, and those will be in short supply with the covid-impacted off-season schedule.  Not to mention that Allen is still a young QB, who will need all the reps he can get to continue his development.

 

Give Allen a couple of more years to establish himself with an OC who doesn't change the playbook every season, and then draft a 'development' QB.  Wait until the team is in position to actually give a young QB the reps to develop.

 

Until then, spend the late-rounders on special teams and package players. They will contribute more to the team uring the season than an emergency QB.

 

 

 

How many reps did Mahommes get in his rookie year? 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Bob in STL

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Assuming Barkley goes into the season as their backup.....if Allen gets hurt for a significant period of time they have botched the QB room yet again.... I’m surprised they haven’t looked for an upgrade. Barkley is trash.

 

I agree that upgrading from Barkley would be a good idea.  My biggest issue with the team -- especially the offense --- going into the draft: once past the starters, the quality of the skill players drops off a cliff.  The Bills so lucked out in not suffering many long term injuries to key starters that it obscures how thin the team is beyond the starters.  On offense,  they have Allen, Diggs, Brown, Beasley, and Singletary but nobody else who's good enough to even pretend to take their places.   They are pinning their hopes for TE on Knox who was ok as a rookie but beyond him, there's an abyss.  The OL has better depth but the starters aren't necessarily all that good.  More troubling is that they don't have a lot of young guys on offense to develop because they created holes in previous seasons and filled them with UDFAs.

 

Realistically, the Bills don't have good enough depth to make a serious Super Bowl run this season unless by some miracle they once again stay almost injury free at key offensive and defensive positions.   The last thing they need to do is draft a backup QB with an eye for trading him for a better pick at some point in the future. 

[SoTier]

18 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

How many reps did Mahommes get in his rookie year? 

 

Mahomes started 1 game in which he went 22 for 35 (62.9%) for 284 yards for 0 TDs and 1 INT.  His long pass was 51 yards.  His Y/A was 8.1.

[Perry Turtle]

2 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

True.  We have had very few QB controversies in Bills history.  Probably because we have had so few good QBs.

 

There was Flutie v. Johnson, by far the biggest.

 

There was a time when some fans screamed for Lamonica every time Kemp slipped up.

 

I even recall people thinking that Gary Mairangi might be better than Joe Ferguson.  Of course when he had his chance he proved to be not even close.

 

Over 60 years that is not much … I would not be concerned if they draft another QB (later in the draft) should the board work out that way.  That is not a reflection on Allen either, I think this is his team. 

 

 

 

 

How many reps did Mahommes get in his rookie year? 

If the Bills want to trade up in the 1st round to draft a QB of the future like the Chiefs did, sure go for it.  If Beane is finished with Allen and is willing to spend the capital to move up, it would be a good move.

 

But we can all probably agree that Beane isn't looking to replace Allen this season? Right?

 

And there really is no comparison between Mahommes and late round development prospect (kind of like Cardale Jones vs Mahommes), true?

 

So rather wasting a pick on the next Nathan Peterman THIS draft, the Bills should use the pick help the special teams or an offensive or defensive package.

[Don Otreply]

If this was an actual thing every team would be super active doing it, but being that there is a dearth of Even above average QBs... Sure every once in a while a team scores an extra QB that has the ability to be a starter, and keeps or trades him, but really, it’s rare as hens teeth ? ??. I’m not saying not to keep your eye open for that opportunity and capitalize on it, but again how many unclaimed QBs have that potential? 

[Mr. WEO]

20 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

If this was an actual thing every team would be super active doing it, but being that there is a dearth of Even above average QBs... Sure every once in a while a team scores an extra QB that has the ability to be a starter, and keeps or trades him, but really, it’s rare as hens teeth ? ??. I’m not saying not to keep your eye open for that opportunity and capitalize on it, but again how many unclaimed QBs have that potential? 

 

It's a thread about a thing that doesn't exist based on a tweet that referenced a team that doesn't do it.

 

Otherwise....makes sense.

[CSBill]

On 4/21/2020 at 4:26 PM, Paup 1995MVP said:

You seriously think we are going to draft a Hurts, Fromm or Eason, have them play in the preseason and THEN eventually trade them for 1st round picks?  You are joking right??  

 

If we take one of those 3, we are taking them as a fall back if Josh Allen falls flat on his face bigtime this year, which aint going to happen.  We still need offensive playmakers.  I get so frustrated reading some of you posters as well as the local media who seem to think our roster is set to contend for a Super Bowl right now, and all we need is some depth players for the future.  (And with that line of thinking lets draft 5 or 6 defensive guys)  We were what about 24th in the NFL last year in scoring.  And 26th in passing yards.  I would be ecstatic to draft TWO WR's and at least one if not two RB's.  And maybe a TE instead of the 2nd RB.  Our offense was not good.  And all we have done so far is add one big time WR.  And a couple of O lineman in Williams and Boehm who may not make the team   We need more offense.  So when you start talking about drafting QB's relatively high just to flip them down the road, that makes no sense to the goal of winning in the here and now!! 

yuuup!

4 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

True.  We have had very few QB controversies in Bills history.  Probably because we have had so few good QBs.

 

There was Flutie v. Johnson, by far the biggest.

 

There was a time when some fans screamed for Lamonica every time Kemp slipped up.

 

I even recall people thinking that Gary Mairangi might be better than Joe Ferguson.  Of course when he had his chance he proved to be not even close.

 

Over 60 years that is not much … I would not be concerned if they draft another QB (later in the draft) should the board work out that way.  That is not a reflection on Allen either, I think this is his team. 

 

How many reps did Mahommes get in his rookie year? 

I don’t know, I was on edge when it was Peterman versus McCarron. Fans were getting violent over that battle.