yungmack Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 16 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: He's a commie so he worked in the proletariat crap. What? Concern about the working stiff is now Communism? Who are you? Charlie Koch? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: The NFL has experienced insane growth that would probably have eclipsed an index fund even with dividends reinvested. I was more so talking about sports leagues in general being an investment compared to an index fund. However the NFL does have operating losses for some teams (the TV deals only cover the player salaries) as there exists a large operation needed and other forms of revenue don’t always cover it. But let’s say that even if teams have a operating loss the NFL was a good investment to make. However my point is that if you are a billionaire investing in sports is probably not the best way to make money. It is a speculative endeavor filled with operating losses and a reliance on a Television medium whose bottom might fall out sooner rather than later. Billionaires get into pro-sports as a way to have fun and network into other business ventures. They don’t get into it as an investment. Could it be a great investment? Yes of course, but overall the purpose of getting into sports as a billionaire is more so as a hobby/toy than anything else. The bolded isn’t right. Each team received $255M last year in national revenue from the league. The salary cap was $188.2M. That’s why I called the NFL “idiot-proof” earlier. The revenue from the league alone paid all of the players salaries with a surplus of $67M (assuming teams spent all the way to the cap which they didn’t). Edited April 21, 2020 by Kirby Jackson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Kruger is a soccer coach, no? And Olympics guy years ago? This is the guy who is going to lead the Sabres out of 8 years of irrelevance? Had Freddy Kruger hung up the blades? They lsot 22 of their last 35 games. No scoring depth whatsoever. Hutton losing every start from 10/24 to February certainly didn't help their standing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, dneveu said: No scoring depth whatsoever. Hutton losing every start from 10/24 to February certainly didn't help their standing. Hutton has been injured the entire season. its just not public yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 4 hours ago, BeastMaster said: So I read the article, and I also read the Q and A with Kim. Seems like the writer is looking to bash them from the way it's written. There's some stuff that doesn't look good, for sure. I've always hated the nepotism garbage, but it's pretty much SOP for these big companies. Bottom line for me is don't let it affect our Bills! Hopefully they learn from the mistakes like Kim claims...they get their house in order, and this fades away once the country gets back to business as usual. Nepotism? Or preparing the next generation like Jerry Jones and the Hunts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 1 minute ago, billsfan89 said: The NFL has experienced insane growth that would probably have eclipsed an index fund even with dividends reinvested. I was more so talking about sports leagues in general being an investment compared to an index fund. However the NFL does have operating losses for some teams (the TV deals only cover the player salaries) as there exists a large operation needed and other forms of revenue don’t always cover it. But let’s say that even if teams have a operating loss the NFL was a good investment to make. However my point is that if you are a billionaire investing in sports is probably not the best way to make money. It is a speculative endeavor filled with operating losses and a reliance on a Television medium whose bottom might fall out sooner rather than later. Billionaires get into pro-sports as a way to have fun and network into other business ventures. They don’t get into it as an investment. Could it be a great investment? Yes of course, but overall the purpose of getting into sports as a billionaire is more so as a hobby/toy than anything else. I was just talking about NFL ownership specifically because of it's massive valuation growth. Player costs can be estimated by the annual cap. It was 188.2 million in 2019. The value of the network contracts for the same year was 255 million. so every team is operating with a significant cushion. Plus all other revenues from tickets, merchandise and ads and rights naming. the average income before taxes and interest is over 100 million now. PLUS (here's the best part, unless you are a taxpayer) from Forbes: "Terry Pegula's purchase of the Buffalo Bills for $1.4 billion in 2014. Pegula was able to allocate more than 80% ($1.1 billion) of the purchase price toward intangible assets and therefore was able to deduct $75 million a year from earnings before paying Uncle Sam. Sports teams are loaded up with intangible assets" It's free money all around. If you have the entry fee, it's a massive can't lose revenue generator and, ultimately jackpot upon selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Dirtyd415 said: Oil prices have never before in history fallen this fast or remained this low for an extended period of time. They only thing worse to have your money in right now would be entertainment. At least people still need oil, albeit at much lower demand. The entertainment industry (including sports) will emerge from the pandemic a battered and disfigured version of itself. When only essential business are able to operate, you don’t want to have all of your money tied up in the least essential business of them all. They are not in the oil business. They are barely in the energy business anymore. But they are heavily in entertainment racket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, yungmack said: Nepotism? Or preparing the next generation like Jerry Jones and the Hunts? Propping up your kids' livelihood with $9 smoothie businesses isn't going to prepare them for NFL ownership. But they could probably run the Sabres as well as mom does now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, CountDorkula said: Hutton has been injured the entire season. its just not public yet. Either way - Murray spent a 1st on Lehner... and it didn't work. His time here was basically alcohol and drug abuse, and Murray did nothing to help or prevent. JB hasn't fixed goaltending either. Its been a problem since Miller and the Sabres have basically been bad since Miller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 33 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: It has been a bad run to be sure. But it will eventually turn around just like is happening with the Bills. it's been almost 10 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, May Day 10 said: Kim pegula is not qualified to run operations of a sports team, let alone like 4 of them. So, the most senior sports business guy? Kevyn Adam's. His qualifications are that he played in the nhl and lives in buffalo. He is in over his head. The pegulas need help. Its amateur hour. Mark my words that the Bill's will have their "polian moment" as well if things appear to be going well. A major element behind McD agreeing to coach in Buffalo, I believe, was the Pegula's giving him unprecedented control for a HC (EDIT: for this franchise). He sought Beane from Carolina and they've had authority over football operations most of us long-time posters dreamed of when RW owned the team. I hope and trust this does not change provided they continue improving the team's W-L record. If there's interference, yeah, I could see a Polian situation brewing. 2 hours ago, Warren Zevon said: Not too peeved about the chart either but people aren't interpreting anything the chart doesn't blatantly say. Return on Investment--> fund lifestyle. It's a stupid slide to show to your employees. I gotta say that it's extremely tone-deaf to talk about "lifestyle" on a spreadsheet to employees. No CEO or corporate executive would do that, whatever the implication. Terry comes off as aloof and KIm seems enchanted with the optics. It's an emperor has no clothes situation at this point. 32 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Kruger is a soccer coach, no? And Olympics guy years ago? This is the guy who is going to lead the Sabres out of 8 years of irrelevance? Had Freddy Kruger hung up the blades? They lsot 22 of their last 35 games. I'll continue to give Krueger the benefit of the doubt, this being his first season. Botterill OTOH deserves a lot of blame for mismanaging the cap and not changing the roster when it was clear some players are not up to the task. At least Beane and McD overhauled the roster in their first 3 seasons. Edited April 21, 2020 by BillsVet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 58 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: None of us know their balance sheets. I think he can and would stomach losses on the Sabres, but right now their businesses are being adversely affected by this crisis as are everyones. If you look historically at what they've done in terms of improving locker rooms, being willing to get rid of coaches that didn't work out and eat the cost, I think Terry is willing to put the money in. If the Pegs put 4 of their 5 billion in a basket of hedged Vanguard funds, they would easily earn 10% a year at virtually no risk, this anomalous moment aside. That's $400 million a yaer, plus whatever millions they earn from the Bills. That would fund a pretty lavish lifestyle AND under right any losses from their other businesses. Edited April 21, 2020 by yungmack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, yungmack said: If the Pegs put 4 of their 5 billion in a basket of hedged Vanguard funds, they would easily earn 10% a year at virtually no risk, this anomalous moment aside. That's $400 million a yaer, plus whatever millions they earn from the Bills. That would fund a pretty lavish lifestyle AND under right any losses from their other businesses. Well putting that aside would eliminate this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 17 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: You mean something like State Media, er, Fox News? Don’t look now but the two star anchors of CNN and MSNBC both reported that Kim Jung Un was on life support/brain dead last night and then just deleted it. Journalistic integrity is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 45 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Kruger is a soccer coach, no? And Olympics guy years ago? This is the guy who is going to lead the Sabres out of 8 years of irrelevance? Had Freddy Kruger hung up the blades? They lsot 22 of their last 35 games. I think Kruger is a lot like McD and Beane. Process oriented. And no he's not a soccer coach, yes he has significant hockey experience, and yes you're just bringing up things you already know aren't correct just to be a smartaass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 48 minutes ago, jimmy10 said: Since McDermott and Beane came on board, their regime has been famously tight-lipped. Does it strike anyone else as odd that all of the sudden “sources close to” McDermott are flapping their gums? No, because Tim Graham. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 getting bad in the tpegs household. this is one of the pegula kids running the account supposedly 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Warren Zevon said: Why do some folks hate Tim Graham so much? I take it you've never read his posts when he did post here, or read some of his twitter flame wars? He's a talented writer but he's also a bit of an egomaniac and has skin as thin as onion peel. He also nurses grudges like a pro. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILBillsfan Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 dumping the sabres be best thing pegulas could do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyd415 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 33 minutes ago, yungmack said: They are not in the oil business. They are barely in the energy business anymore. But they are heavily in entertainment racket. I am aware of this, which is why I tried to make the point that they are up the creek in the short term. If they still had major oil investments/business ventures they would still be able to generate cash flow. Granted it would be at low oil prices but being fully vested in the entertainment industry they have extremely limited to zero ability to generate any cash flow at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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